[Taylor]

It is a matter of principle, if you been banned enough times to warrant a permanent ban, maybe it is time that your voting rights are revoked too.

Here are two extremes in terms of the amount of bans before a permanent ban, I had 1 prior. Coup had 11, so you're argument of "enough times to warrant a permanent ban" doesn't make much sense, as "enough times" could vary from 1 prior to 11, in this case.

[Project]

It is a matter of principle, if you been banned enough times to warrant a permanent ban, maybe it is time that your voting rights are revoked too.

-snip x2-

Here are two extremes in terms of the amount of bans before a permanent ban, I had 1 prior. Coup had 11, so you're argument of "enough times to warrant a permanent ban" doesn't make much sense, as "enough times" could vary from 1 prior to 11, in this case.

Where exactly does it not make sense? Coup broke the rules for smaller things such as FailRP and FearRP where repeated offences got him banned for longer. You on the other hand, your second ban after a player report according to admin fell under scamming, something that at the time, depending what was scammed could land you a few months off the server to a permanent suspension. So at the end of the day while it may be only be your first or second ban that results in you loosing access to the server, more often than not, it is deserved and so would be loosing voting rights too.

[BlackDog]

As I said, it is a matter of principle in my opinion. If you are permed on the server, you shouldn't vote on what gets changed. You can make suggestions, but you shouldn't vote.

As a matter of principle they absolutely should be able to vote as they have not violated any of the policies that would restrict their forum access.

Its already been shown there is no evidence to back any claim that "Permabanned" players are marching in droves to go vote down suggestions that people want out of spite, you are more or less sounding like people in the U.S:

 Talking about voter fraud and how they need to add in new restrictions and policies and make voting more complicated to prevent fraudulent votes, when there is no proof that voter fraud is a huge issue, and where most suspect votes are generaly explained due to out dated voter registrys, or someones penmenship not being the greatest so it doesnt line up perfectly with their submitted signature.

Its the same thing here, there is no evidence to suggest that what you want to prevent is even a thing, and infact only evidence to show it absolutely is not a thing.

[Cole]

I don't understand why this suggestion is even a thing. It's simple, if they violate forum rules then punish them, if not then don't. Regardless of if they're permanently banned in-game, they still have the right to post their opinion, neither does it mean anything they say is invalidated in any way, shape or form.

The main argument I am seeing for this suggestion is: "It doesn't affect them, so they shouldn't be allowed to vote". The argument is absurd (in Limelight's case), just because it doesn't affect them now doesn't mean it won't at a later date, neither does it mean that we should prevent people from posting their opinions (within the forum rules). The only case in which I see someone being banned from all services is if they violate the Terms of Service.

[Taylor]

As I said, it is a matter of principle in my opinion. If you are permed on the server, you shouldn't vote on what gets changed. You can make suggestions, but you shouldn't vote.

As a matter of principle they absolutely should be able to vote as they have not violated any of the policies that would restrict their forum access.

Its already been shown there is no evidence to back any claim that "Permabanned" players are marching in droves to go vote down suggestions that people want out of spite, you are more or less sounding like people in the U.S:

 Talking about voter fraud and how they need to add in new restrictions and policies and make voting more complicated to prevent fraudulent votes, when there is no proof that voter fraud is a huge issue, and where most suspect votes are generaly explained due to out dated voter registrys, or someones penmenship not being the greatest so it doesnt line up perfectly with their submitted signature.

Its the same thing here, there is no evidence to suggest that what you want to prevent is even a thing, and infact only evidence to show it absolutely is not a thing.

^^^^^^^

[Toxic]

People who end up in prison also have a number of their rights taken away. +support.

People who end up in prison also can’t communicate with anyone they please at any second of any day, but banned players can.

This analogy has been used over and over again yet that doesn’t make it any less flawed.

Felons also lose their right to vote in 22 states.

[BlackDog]

Maybe so, but that doesnt make it right, nor logical to do so.

[Quest]

Most permanently banned "members" are just trolling around anyway.

+support

It does not affect them anymore.

So your argument is to punish everyone who made a mistake, regardless of what that mistake was, as severely as those who overtly troll and violate the forum rules to the point they need to be removed from it?

A blanketsweep restriction is not the way to go, I also recall this suggestion being posted once before, and being denied.

https://limelightgaming.net/forums/threa...ight=perma


To paraphrase myself from the previous thread on this: 

"As one who was permabanned from Fearless for an entire year, i can say from experience that yes, people who are permad can still contribute to the community, and thus i do not support restricting their voteing ability on the forums. 

Until they are banned from the community as a whole, their opinion is still valid. A Permanent ban is not always Permanent"

I mean my suggestion was similar, but wasn't the same; it just prevented people from using the polls essentially.

[BlackDog]

Isnt that the same thing?

Both suggestions are attempting to limit punished peoples ability to interact with the community, even though they have not violated any LL policy that would restrict them.

[Daley]

I have been for a measure like this from the start. People who are banned should not be able to vote. It makes sense to me. 
Massive +support

[pufitee]

is this cus i -supported ur teacher app and ur salty over it?

oh btw

-support

[BlackDog]

I have been for a measure like this from the start. People who are banned should not be able to vote. It makes sense to me. 
Massive +support

But why does this make sense,please elaborate on this as they have broken no policies that would restrict their access to the forums in anyway and are still fully capable of supporting the community, regardless of the fact they cannot play on the Gmod server.

[Soviethooves]

LL offers 2 services so far: A Gmod Server and a Forum to act as a hub. If we ever offer more services, how is it fair for a player who got punished for Fearp on the Gmod server to not be allowed to vote or discuss arguments and suggestions? And if we do get more games supported by LL, why can’t they voice their opinion on those topics?

If they didn’t break forum rules they don’t deserve to be suspended here, especially if they want to argue their suspension. (Now I think we should be more strict about forum suspensions on some people, but that’s my opinion.)

[Nudel]

(1) LL offers 2 services so far: A Gmod Server and a Forum to act as a hub. If we ever offer more services, how is it fair for a player who got punished for Fearp on the Gmod server to not be allowed to vote or discuss arguments and suggestions? And if we do get more games supported by LL, why can’t they voice their opinion on those topics?

(2) If they didn’t break forum rules they don’t deserve to be suspended here, especially if they want to argue their suspension.

(1) I think you've misunderstood something. Players who simply get punished for FearRP, as you've mentioned, do not loose the ability to vote or discuss arguments. The suggestion is about permanently banned players to loose their ability to vote. They will keep their ability to discuss.

(2) If this suggestion gets approved they can still be on the forums like before, they can still argue their suspension. They simply loose the ability to vote on teacher application and suggestions.

Read the suggestion again.

[BlackDog]

(1) LL offers 2 services so far: A Gmod Server and a Forum to act as a hub. If we ever offer more services, how is it fair for a player who got punished for Fearp on the Gmod server to not be allowed to vote or discuss arguments and suggestions? And if we do get more games supported by LL, why can’t they voice their opinion on those topics?

(2) If they didn’t break forum rules they don’t deserve to be suspended here, especially if they want to argue their suspension.

(1) I think you've misunderstood something. Players who simply get punished for FearRP, as you've mentioned, do not loose the ability to vote or discuss arguments. The suggestion is about permanently banned players to loose their ability to vote. They will keep their ability to discuss.

(2) If this suggestion gets approved they can still be on the forums like before, they can still argue their suspension. They simply loose the ability to vote on teacher application and suggestions.

Read the suggestion again.

1. He fully understood what the suggestion is about, the problem is: The player has not violated any of LL's policies that would lead them to have their forum abilities restricted in anyway, thus they should not be limited until such time they do violate them.

2. If the suggestion is approved, all youve done is stigmitize said players more so than they already are, and will make it harder for them to ever return to LL proper.


They have done nothing to warrant their forum accesses being limited in anyway, as soviet pointed out:

What if LL had more than one game service? What if we had say Space engineers, Minecraft, Project Zomboid, or other various game servers, and a player received a perma ban from one of them, should they now suddenly be not allowed to post suggestions or vote within the community?