[MrMarsh]

Responding to those that say it lacks the empty space for custom buildings ,

Those buildings are some of the biggest factors that cause massive lag to players. It is a different type of RP map , it has such incredible detail, massive building renovations is not as necessary and it's something to get used to. Keep in mind their are still empty warehouses and shops.


To whoever said there isn't a park there is a Central Park in the screenshots.

Also I feel with such a large waterfront we could easily set up a flat grassy area or similar if it was really that big of an issue.

Not all of those buildings are. Only a tiny fraction of them do cause any noticable lag. The ability to build (yet alone at up to 300props) is one of the key factors that sets us aside from most of our competitors. Of couse a giant clan base could cause some lag and not everyone is keen on spending 300 props and 30h on a dupe but im talking about the avrage dupes here. Stuff like my bowling alley, some of the funfair rides people invented, monorails, parade grounds, parks, dragstrips etc.). It can not be overlooked that this map would eradicate a good chunk of our dupe and rp potential.
Even the prebuild stores are quite problematic. The bar for example has a premade pooltable - fine i have a functioning one. Though without me beeing able to remove the predecorated one - i may as well scrap that.... That kinda goes for a lot of custom stuff and smaller ideas.

There are communities that use a similar map but dont let you build... the question really is if we want to join them. Even though the RP_Southside looks awsome id still love the opportunity to build.

As for the park I dont see one on the screenshots or the actual map. Perhaps im somehwat blind but i havent found a single area on the map that would properly support mining or woodcutting mechanics in a somewhat realistic manner.

As for the waterfront area. Yes it would be great if we could get the creator on board in that regard. This is anything BUT certain. We are talking about an eventuality not a given option.


I know that this map looks and feels fantastic for the most part. And i agree that it has a fuck ton of awsome features. All I am saying is that we must not overlook some of the less obvious aspects such as the maps compatibility with our gamemode and other gameplay related features.

[MrMarsh]

What Guv said ^^

And this building is literally perfect for WY just put a big WY logo on it done. 

One more thing about the lack of building space:

WY may not be the only group looking for a office tower, I may not be the only chef interested in the only diner, there may be more then 1 gun dealer looking to get the gunrange. Yes there are few shops that could serve as a solution... but without the ability to build your own stuff all those great premade buildings may be a more then scarce commodity.
Another more concrete example:

(WY is operating its own hospital - so does the Mercy Hospital clan - both the USFS and the Emergency Services clans run ambulance stations... yes the hospital on this map is awsome but if you dont have proper building space it too is gonna be a scarce commodity)

[Auston]

Responding to those that say it lacks the empty space for custom buildings ,

Those buildings are some of the biggest factors that cause massive lag to players. It is a different type of RP map , it has such incredible detail, massive building renovations is not as necessary and it's something to get used to. Keep in mind their are still empty warehouses and shops.


To whoever said there isn't a park there is a Central Park in the screenshots.

Also I feel with such a large waterfront we could easily set up a flat grassy area or similar if it was really that big of an issue.

Not all of those buildings are. Only a tiny fraction of them do cause any noticable lag. The ability to build (yet alone at up to 300props) is one of the key factors that sets us aside from most of our competitors. Of couse a giant clan base could cause some lag and not everyone is keen on spending 300 props and 30h on a dupe but im talking about the avrage dupes here. Stuff like my bowling alley, some of the funfair rides people invented, monorails, parade grounds, parks, dragstrips etc.). It can not be overlooked that this map would eradicate a good chunk of our dupe and rp potential.
Even the prebuild stores are quite problematic. The bar for example has a premade pooltable - fine i have a functioning one. Though without me beeing able to remove the predecorated one - i may as well scrap that.... That kinda goes for a lot of custom stuff and smaller ideas.

There are communities that use a similar map but dont let you build... the question really is if we want to join them. Even though the RP_Southside looks awsome id still love the opportunity to build.

As for the park I dont see one on the screenshots or the actual map. Perhaps im somehwat blind but i havent found a single area on the map that would properly support mining or woodcutting mechanics in a somewhat realistic manner.

As for the waterfront area. Yes it would be great if we could get the creator on board in that regard. This is anything BUT certain. We are talking about an eventuality not a given option.


I know that this map looks and feels fantastic for the most part. And i agree that it has a fuck ton of awsome features. All I am saying is that we must not overlook some of the less obvious aspects such as the maps compatibility with our gamemode and other gameplay related features.

Our competition? as in FearlessRP? 

There is tons of building potential in this map, but if you really want to keep the same failing map and failing server thats your right, Im looking to try to improve our situation and get players back on the server.

[MrMarsh]

Responding to those that say it lacks the empty space for custom buildings ,

Those buildings are some of the biggest factors that cause massive lag to players. It is a different type of RP map , it has such incredible detail, massive building renovations is not as necessary and it's something to get used to. Keep in mind their are still empty warehouses and shops.


To whoever said there isn't a park there is a Central Park in the screenshots.

Also I feel with such a large waterfront we could easily set up a flat grassy area or similar if it was really that big of an issue.

Not all of those buildings are. Only a tiny fraction of them do cause any noticable lag. The ability to build (yet alone at up to 300props) is one of the key factors that sets us aside from most of our competitors. Of couse a giant clan base could cause some lag and not everyone is keen on spending 300 props and 30h on a dupe but im talking about the avrage dupes here. Stuff like my bowling alley, some of the funfair rides people invented, monorails, parade grounds, parks, dragstrips etc.). It can not be overlooked that this map would eradicate a good chunk of our dupe and rp potential.
Even the prebuild stores are quite problematic. The bar for example has a premade pooltable - fine i have a functioning one. Though without me beeing able to remove the predecorated one - i may as well scrap that.... That kinda goes for a lot of custom stuff and smaller ideas.

There are communities that use a similar map but dont let you build... the question really is if we want to join them. Even though the RP_Southside looks awsome id still love the opportunity to build.

As for the park I dont see one on the screenshots or the actual map. Perhaps im somehwat blind but i havent found a single area on the map that would properly support mining or woodcutting mechanics in a somewhat realistic manner.

As for the waterfront area. Yes it would be great if we could get the creator on board in that regard. This is anything BUT certain. We are talking about an eventuality not a given option.


I know that this map looks and feels fantastic for the most part. And i agree that it has a fuck ton of awsome features. All I am saying is that we must not overlook some of the less obvious aspects such as the maps compatibility with our gamemode and other gameplay related features.

Our competition? as in FearlessRP? 

There is tons of building potential in this map, but if you really want to keep the same failing map and failing server thats your right, Im looking to try to improve our situation and get players back on the server.

It would be great if this discussion could be kept on a sane and somewhat orderly level. Obviously we are in a disagreement, and we can argue all we want (with a low likelyhood of us convinving the other) but thats what makes discurse great.
What turns it sour is cynicism, framing and that kinda stuff
I spent years with this community both as a member and later on staff member i want what i deem to be best for it - not what would make us fail.
If youd knew me you could recall that im not quite happy with evo city either (i much more prefer rockford which has the perfect compromise between open and urban spaces etc.) but we switched to it for a reason. A switch that had it intendet effect in boosting our community at a time where we were severely lacking player count. I doubt that the 30people on a monday afternoon are a sign we are "failing" btw (sure it may be partially due to corona but if you compare the playercount we had on TN and ec around the time we switched you can tell that we got the needed results)

As for the competition im not talking about fearless but monolith. They use a very similar map to southside and they sacrificed the ability to build for a more detailed map (with lots of premade stuff)
If that is your preference that is more then fine. All i am saying is its certainly not mine and i doubt that it would be a wise move to restrict a large part of our creative freedom for a improved map. This would essentially put us in a competiton that does not seem too desirable (essentially copying monolith whilst letting FL bypass us on the creative part)

As for the building space:
No - this map certainly does lack any open space that could be used for dupes or likewise projects. Yes there are a good ammount of sorta bare interiors that can be decorated but a good chunk of our roleplays and events rely on some open or properly customsable space.
I am not saying this would restrict us from building anything at all. But it would severely limit the things we could build and use.

Its fine to have differing opinions. But i dont see a gain in bashing or framing each other or reulsting in yes->no->yes arguments.

[Catfish]

@MrMarsh‍ I know that due to it being more of an urban map it certainly limits custom building. 

However there are ways to adapt, like I said earlier building dupes off of the docks to create a waterfront district, along with clearing out the props in stores.

It is certainly a change, but it can be done (in my opinion).

[Auston]

Not all of those buildings are. Only a tiny fraction of them do cause any noticable lag. The ability to build (yet alone at up to 300props) is one of the key factors that sets us aside from most of our competitors. Of couse a giant clan base could cause some lag and not everyone is keen on spending 300 props and 30h on a dupe but im talking about the avrage dupes here. Stuff like my bowling alley, some of the funfair rides people invented, monorails, parade grounds, parks, dragstrips etc.). It can not be overlooked that this map would eradicate a good chunk of our dupe and rp potential.
Even the prebuild stores are quite problematic. The bar for example has a premade pooltable - fine i have a functioning one. Though without me beeing able to remove the predecorated one - i may as well scrap that.... That kinda goes for a lot of custom stuff and smaller ideas.

There are communities that use a similar map but dont let you build... the question really is if we want to join them. Even though the RP_Southside looks awsome id still love the opportunity to build.

As for the park I dont see one on the screenshots or the actual map. Perhaps im somehwat blind but i havent found a single area on the map that would properly support mining or woodcutting mechanics in a somewhat realistic manner.

As for the waterfront area. Yes it would be great if we could get the creator on board in that regard. This is anything BUT certain. We are talking about an eventuality not a given option.


I know that this map looks and feels fantastic for the most part. And i agree that it has a fuck ton of awsome features. All I am saying is that we must not overlook some of the less obvious aspects such as the maps compatibility with our gamemode and other gameplay related features.

Our competition? as in FearlessRP? 

There is tons of building potential in this map, but if you really want to keep the same failing map and failing server thats your right, Im looking to try to improve our situation and get players back on the server.

It would be great if this discussion could be kept on a sane and somewhat orderly level. Obviously we are in a disagreement, and we can argue all we want (with a low likelyhood of us convinving the other) but thats what makes discurse great.
What turns it sour is cynicism, framing and that kinda stuff
I spent years with this community both as a member and later on staff member i want what i deem to be best for it - not what would make us fail.
If youd knew me you could recall that im not quite happy with evo city either (i much more prefer rockford which has the perfect compromise between open and urban spaces etc.) but we switched to it for a reason. A switch that had it intendet effect in boosting our community at a time where we were severely lacking player count. I doubt that the 30people on a monday afternoon are a sign we are "failing" btw (sure it may be partially due to corona but if you compare the playercount we had on TN and ec around the time we switched you can tell that we got the needed results)

As for the competition im not talking about fearless but monolith. They use a very similar map to southside and they sacrificed the ability to build for a more detailed map (with lots of premade stuff)
If that is your preference that is more then fine. All i am saying is its certainly not mine and i doubt that it would be a wise move to restrict a large part of our creative freedom for a improved map. This would essentially put us in a competiton that does not seem too desirable (essentially copying monolith whilst letting FL bypass us on the creative part)

As for the building space:
No - this map certainly does lack any open space that could be used for dupes or likewise projects. Yes there are a good ammount of sorta bare interiors that can be decorated but a good chunk of our roleplays and events rely on some open or properly customsable space.
I am not saying this would restrict us from building anything at all. But it would severely limit the things we could build and use.

Its fine to have differing opinions. But i dont see a gain in bashing or framing  each other or reulsting in yes->no->yes arguments.

Im not framing you for anything, Im saying it doesnt hurt us to attempt this map, it can just as easily be undone if not seen fit. This map gives us the best chance out of any of the other maps we've tried to bring activity to the server. Honestly if I was a new player, joining the game with a well built PC and was getting 15 fps I would absolutely leave.

[Vinic]

- Support

I think this map is very nice. However, I believe that EvoCity is perfectly fine for LL and will continue to function well. A map is not content. A map will change very little, if not anything at all, other than how the place looks. People will still base, shoot cops, drive like idiots, set up small shops, and do everything else the same was as they always have because changing the scenery changes nothing about how the game is played.

A map is just the base for which we build our gamemode and content from. As @Doctor Internet‍ has stated in the past, the community demanding a map change greatly interferes with the dev team's ability to produce new content for us all to enjoy. We should stay on Evocity and push hard for fun, new content for us all to enjoy on the map which already serves us well!

[Auston]

- Support

I think this map is very nice. However, I believe that EvoCity is perfectly fine for LL and will continue to function well. A map is not content. A map will change very little, if not anything at all, other than how the place looks. People will still base, shoot cops, drive like idiots, set up small shops, and do everything else the same was as they always have because changing the scenery changes nothing about how the game is played.

A map is just the base for which we build our gamemode and content from. As @Doctor Internet‍ has stated in the past, the community demanding a map change greatly interferes with the dev team's ability to produce new content for us all to enjoy. We should stay on Evocity and push hard for fun, new content for us all to enjoy on the map which already serves us well!

Frankly I dont think you're right at all, the map does greatly inspire roleplay.

Evocity is outdated with horrible performance with little to no substance to the map. To say we should not push for something that the community clearly wants is also a very strange thing to say, and to rather just load up our outdated map with more content that people can enjoy at 9fps.

The poll itself and this post shows the community wants this implemented, With less and less players on every single day and virtually 0 players online during the afternoon in North America, this is a good shot at improvement.

[Mr.Sir]

- Support

I think this map is very nice. However, I believe that EvoCity is perfectly fine for LL and will continue to function well. A map is not content. A map will change very little, if not anything at all, other than how the place looks. People will still base, shoot cops, drive like idiots, set up small shops, and do everything else the same was as they always have because changing the scenery changes nothing about how the game is played.

A map is just the base for which we build our gamemode and content from. As @Doctor Internet‍ has stated in the past, the community demanding a map change greatly interferes with the dev team's ability to produce new content for us all to enjoy. We should stay on Evocity and push hard for fun, new content for us all to enjoy on the map which already serves us well!

Frankly I dont think you're right at all, the map does greatly inspire roleplay.

Evocity is outdated with horrible performance with little to no substance to the map. To say we should not push for something that the community clearly wants is also a very strange thing to say, and to rather just load up our outdated map with more content that people can enjoy at 9fps.

The poll itself and this post shows the community wants this implemented, With less and less players on every single day and virtually 0 players online during the afternoon in North America, this is a good shot at improvement.

I agree with Auston here.
The other day I tried to roleplay with alot of people around me, The lag was so horrible that I couldnt even hear what anyone was saying.

It made me give up after a while.

[Dutch]

- Support

I think this map is very nice. However, I believe that EvoCity is perfectly fine for LL and will continue to function well. A map is not content. A map will change very little, if not anything at all, other than how the place looks. People will still base, shoot cops, drive like idiots, set up small shops, and do everything else the same was as they always have because changing the scenery changes nothing about how the game is played.

A map is just the base for which we build our gamemode and content from. As @Doctor Internet‍ has stated in the past, the community demanding a map change greatly interferes with the dev team's ability to produce new content for us all to enjoy. We should stay on Evocity and push hard for fun, new content for us all to enjoy on the map which already serves us well!

Frankly I dont think you're right at all, the map does greatly inspire roleplay.

Evocity is outdated with horrible performance with little to no substance to the map. To say we should not push for something that the community clearly wants is also a very strange thing to say, and to rather just load up our outdated map with more content that people can enjoy at 9fps.

The poll itself and this post shows the community wants this implemented, With less and less players on every single day and virtually 0 players online during the afternoon in North America, this is a good shot at improvement.

I agree with Auston here.
The other day I tried to roleplay with alot of people around me, The lag was so horrible that I couldnt even hear what anyone was saying.

It made me give up after a while.

I must agree with Auston and Sir sometimes the lag is so bad I just want to stop playing.
Also lag as I believe Auston mentioned scares away the new players.
If you have a juicy map with less lag a new player would be like ''Yes very good I stay yes yes yes''.

[Doctor Internet]

- Support

I think this map is very nice. However, I believe that EvoCity is perfectly fine for LL and will continue to function well. A map is not content. A map will change very little, if not anything at all, other than how the place looks. People will still base, shoot cops, drive like idiots, set up small shops, and do everything else the same was as they always have because changing the scenery changes nothing about how the game is played.

A map is just the base for which we build our gamemode and content from. As @Doctor Internet‍ has stated in the past, the community demanding a map change greatly interferes with the dev team's ability to produce new content for us all to enjoy. We should stay on Evocity and push hard for fun, new content for us all to enjoy on the map which already serves us well!

Whilst I stand by that, if the map performs better, and it improves our optimisation situation, then I don't have an issue switching over.

[Guv]

i was ingame one night and bearing in mind here there was: Judges 900 prop hospital down, Marsh's diner, and Cheet had a base at corleone at about 110 props from what i was told, combined with normal server performance that night i only held about 6 fps consistently

me and @SeaGull‍  were playing both as cop's that night and neither of us found the server stable enough to even drive in. lagging around every corner, risking the car crashing, after about 10 mins we gave up and left the game as it was just too laggy

[MrMarsh]

@MrMarsh‍ I know that due to it being more of an urban map it certainly limits custom building. 

However there are ways to adapt, like I said earlier building dupes off of the docks to create a waterfront district, along with clearing out the props in stores.

It is certainly a change, but it can be done (in my opinion).

Yes that is an option but it has two major drawbacks.

Some of the shops have props & and premade decoration that are not removable (like said pooltables)
And if you need to put stuff on the docks or over the water it will cost you a good ammount of your propcount just to get the floor/base done which kinda makes some of the points regarding reduced lag and optimised buildings a little redundant.

As for building interiors: some of them can be decorated properly and some dont even need too much customisation - i mean the pd is fucking georgeous....
What kinda bothers me and what could become an issue is that theres some stuff you cant remove (like the pooltables etc.)
Is this gonna break the game? Of course not - But its a very unescessary restriction. Most map decorations dont require too many props/too much creativity - most of that is stuff we could do by ourselfs with our relatively high proplimits etc...

It can definatly be done - and the map is pretty awsome but at the moment it still has weaknesses that are kinda unescessary and that will certainly have an unwanted impact.
I can think of a number of rps I or others made that are hardly possible on this map (skijumping, paragliding, drag strip, dirt rally, bowling alley[maybe], open air concert, airports, amusement partks & funfairs, skiing... that kinda stuff.
Those are not essentiall of course and id get to keep my yacht XD but I really prefer maps that leave those kinda thing open to us (that have a little bit of open space, some nature, some elevation).

[MrTibo]

If you just look at the poll it's very obvious a lot of people want this map, and a lot of good arguments have been made to switch to this map. Can we stop avoiding and follow what the community wants?

[Vinic]

- Support

I think this map is very nice. However, I believe that EvoCity is perfectly fine for LL and will continue to function well. A map is not content. A map will change very little, if not anything at all, other than how the place looks. People will still base, shoot cops, drive like idiots, set up small shops, and do everything else the same was as they always have because changing the scenery changes nothing about how the game is played.

A map is just the base for which we build our gamemode and content from. As @Doctor Internet‍ has stated in the past, the community demanding a map change greatly interferes with the dev team's ability to produce new content for us all to enjoy. We should stay on Evocity and push hard for fun, new content for us all to enjoy on the map which already serves us well!

Frankly I dont think you're right at all, the map does greatly inspire roleplay.

Evocity is outdated with horrible performance with little to no substance to the map. To say we should not push for something that the community clearly wants is also a very strange thing to say, and to rather just load up our outdated map with more content that people can enjoy at 9fps.

The poll itself and this post shows the community wants this implemented, With less and less players on every single day and virtually 0 players online during the afternoon in North America, this is a good shot at improvement.

I certainly can see where you're coming from. My hesitation to support this is that everyone jumped on the TrueNorth bandwagon and that map was far too large for the community's liking and it nearly killed the server. We have tried different maps yet we always come back to EvoCity because it serves as a good foundation for new content and player interaction.

I will not deny the fact that a map does not affect things entirely, but my argument is that changing the scenery doesn't truly add anything to the content loops which our server presents. It will be the same thing, but just in a different place. This is why I argue to stay on one map and focus on new content. 

HOWEVER! 

Whilst I stand by that, if the map performs better, and it improves our optimisation situation, then I don't have an issue switching over.

I will agree that optimization is a critical issue - getting 10fps is no fun at all. If Internet believes that changing to this new map will improve the optimization issues, I'll support this map change.