[Guv]

ive played on this map for a bit and it is beautiful  

i also brought this up with @Doctor Internet‍ earlier this month and he said theres little to no chance of it getting changed

ill +support this but im not sure what the outcome if this will be like

[X_MAXXX_X]

O... My... God.. +SUPPORT!

Map is AMAZING!

[Zaidplays]

Nah rockford all the way

[kellekerell]

FL got a map rotation system and honestly Im quite jealous of it, its great. @"Nudelsalat im Panzer"‍ suggested it to go along with this map which would definitely be a good option, if possible.

But even if the map rotation thing cannot get implemented, please give this map a shot. Seems great and it would definitely be refreshing, just my opinion though.

+Support, thanks for that great suggestion.

[MrTibo]

[MrTibo]

I've been checking out this map and it's incredibly amazing, this should definitely become the new map!!

It has so much detail even the elevators have working stop buttons and can be turned off in the elevator control omg xd

[MrMarsh]

Besides the fact that this should probably be put in the discussion forum and that i doubt we will ever find unanimous consense on which map would be the best i see some issues with this map. And trust me i see the benefits too.

The problem though is that this map is a bit too dense and offers no proper building areas.
Even most shops are predecorated. On one hand their decoration is pretty well done and it saves you some props on the other hand though this can seriously hinder you in terms of customisation etc.


If you would want to build a standalone dupe (eg. bowling alley, taxi stand, casino, school, jail etc.) you wont be able to fit it anywhere on this map as there is no open space for that.
Sure you could argue that since this map has a great pd, fd, etc. you may not need to build that much (which quite a few people tend to favor) but with all those premade buildings and decorations you really have no where to go in terms of building your own dupes.
This map has many features and that sure is great but the more the map does for you - the less you can do yourself.

Personally i really do favor creative freedom over premade features. Though i understand that this map has some pretty awsome ones, and that most people dont have 300 props and 30h of build time to spare on their dupes.

A second flaw would be the lack of a proper park or somehwat more suburban part. Granted this is supposed to be a part of NYC but with MESKA in mind (mining, woodcutting fishing) we need a more rurual/natural area on a map. This map doesnt even have a proper park. Imagine a horde of Kamaz trucks rallying around the few trees that are around the graveyard to chop wood, or mine ore.
Yes Meska is still in developement but we should keep it in mind if we are debating map choices.

As for the infrastructe - yes its pretty awsome. Once again you would have places to go rather then going around in circles
On the other hand even though its quire dense - im still not sure if this will not have similar effects to TN with the map beeing a bit too large. Yes TN had the entire upper layer but that actually saw little use, yet the downtown area was still quite vacant as people spread out throughout suburbia. Even though this map has a more compact design it still has few chokepoints or general hotspots (this is hard to tell in advance though).

As for the details - lightswitches, fuseboxes etc - im all in.
The question here is gonna be how well this map will run on the server i suppose. Yet im not an expert in that field.


To to sumb it up:
1. we ll probably never find THE perfect map - and this would be better of in the discussion forum i suppose
2. the map itself looks gorgeous
3. it really does lack any open room or empty buildings to allow for any  dupes
4. it lacks map locations that could support aspects of MESKA such as forest/parks/mines/natural sights
5. it may lack chokepoints and hotspots

I can understand that many people will probably fall in love with this map - and im sorry to put a break to it (trust me ive tested it - and i quite like it too) but it reeeeaaaally lacks some curicial things such as meska support, empty buildings and open lots.
Though it definatly has potential.

[C Lee]

I dunno if you can edit the map without permissions. But the problem of building could be easily resolved.

[MrMarsh]

I dunno if you can edit the map without permissions. But the problem of building could be easily resolved.

If we could get in agreement with the maps creator i supposed some of the water to the bottom left of the map (near the warehouse) could probably turned into woods or a small island - but that would still leave us with an incredbily dense city with little wiggleroom.
The city is quite awsome indeed but my worry is that is a bit restrictive in terms of dupes etc. (and the other things i wrote above)

I dont know how realistic the modification of this map would be.

[Oneshott]

@MrMarsh‍ There is a massive area ofof water near the docks that could be used for building, but I do see your point for sure.

[Blackout]

+Support

This map has so much to offer, it has a large water area for potentially future purchasable boats being added? wouldn't mind a jet ski. It even has a sewer system with flowing water that leads to the ocean and you can ride the water to the ocean, it's fun i tried it.
Not only that but the quality is there, the buildings look so realistic and i personally feel immersed into the map, There are some minor issues i have but i'll get to that after.
The bank in this map has a very advanced system to make Bank Robbery RP more interesting and need planning due to the banks security system such as laser detection, it's beautiful as well did i forget to say that?

The homes on this map also have light switches that MAKE A DIFFERENCE, lights off and you can't see jack. This allows opportunity for more role-play, I can even see more interesting burglary rp happening from the robbing in the pitch black.

Now onto the negatives that i believe can be fixed, the map does have breakable vents in the prison cells and breakable floor underneath the bank. 
First of all, this could be fixed by making the vents and bank floor breakable only via a certain tool? maybe adding some new tools such as heavy duty power drill to break the prison floor which could be a very hard thing to craft? and maybe the prison vents will need to be destroyed with a melee weapon, either way i don't think prisoners can punch so they would need outside help.

Ultimately the breakable objects could be made unbreakable if what suggested is too complex.

But to finish this off, there would be no harm in adding this map and to see how us as a community respond to it. Nobody liking how it's playing out? Could always switch back to trusty v4b1.

[Insert]

On the other hand this map has no real 'main street', tons of hiding spots, a whole sewer system, a lot of water, and other things that I could see turn into issues rather than benefits.

Ah yes.

- Gone are the semi-AFK/Minges who stand aroung loitering on Main street, there is Discord for that.

- Hiding spots, finally criminals will have suitable areas to work with for their roleplay, no more high end apartments they wouldn't be able to afford by selling crack on the streets.

- Finally the Anarchists have a place to hang out in, the sewer system! With a network of entry points it makes it perfect to link with other members and plan activities whilst hidden from the government.

- The water is an opportunity for new roleplay. Not really sure how it would be a problem or how it's an issue really.

[Oneshott]

On the other hand this map has no real 'main street', tons of hiding spots, a whole sewer system, a lot of water, and other things that I could see turn into issues rather than benefits.

Ah yes.

- Gone are the semi-AFK/Minges who stand aroung loitering on Main street, there is Discord for that.

- Hiding spots, finally criminals will have suitable areas to work with for their roleplay, no more high end apartments they wouldn't be able to afford by selling crack on the streets.

- Finally the Anarchists have a place to hang out in, the sewer system! With a network of entry points it makes it perfect to link with other members and plan activities whilst hidden from the government.

- The water is an opportunity for new roleplay. Not really sure how it would be a problem or how it's an issue really.

Well,
Main street is typically a pretty good hub to figure out what is going on and get involved. We saw in Rockford that this could be an issue at times.

Truenorth had hiding spots, and all it ended up in was contra whoring, not roleplay. Is it possible? Yes. Will it happen? That is another matter.

In an ideal world this map could be amazing, but I could also see the map turn into a truenorth v2 where people just hide away never to be found basically.

Anarchists having a hideout would be great, if they were ever used, which I do not really see very often if at all. Will this map change that? Maybe. Maybe not.

The water could be a great addition, I agree. It could be used as a building platform, and for water based RP's that were not possible before. However it is a LARGE area. So I feel like you would almost need some sort of water based vehicle like Blackout mentioned.

I think my point overall is, I could see this map being great, I could also see it being the second coming of truenorth, there are flaws in the map, we just need to recognise them. None of these things mean the map is unviable at all. But I am seeing a lot of extreme praise with 0 consideration of what flaws it might have, hence why I am pointing them out along with some others. This doesn't mean that we do not like the map. I love the look of the map and would not mind trying it out. But I do not think it is without it's downsides possibly.

[Mystic]

+1 Looks really good! I think its time for a new map.

[SpaghettiFTW]

That is an incredible map that is well done it really shows the age of EvoCity.

Basically if you took the best features of EvoCity and Rockford and slammed them in a nitty gritty setting, you'd have a worse version of this map.

It feels so much bigger than it is, but never feels cramped.