[kellekerell]

EvoCity isn't bad at all in my opinion @"Eddie"‍, thats not what I wanted to say. What I wanted to say is that after a certain amount of time a map change would just fit (and is also necessary in my opinion). Limelight couldn't stick to the same map for over 4 years, no matter whether it is Rockford or EvoCity.

[Eddie]

EvoCity isn't bad at all in my opinion @"Eddie"‍, thats not what I wanted to say. What I wanted to say is that after a certain amount of time a map change would just fit (and is also necessary in my opinion). Limelight couldn't stick to the same map for over 4 years, no matter whether it is Rockford or EvoCity.

At no point did I disagree with you on that. If anything I agree.

[Zaidplays]

Last night i went online, there was roughly 20 people on, i drove about for a good 15-20 minutes around the map and only saw like 4-6 people. That would never happen if it were truenorth whats everyone doin? just camping in there houses farming weed?

[Night]

It seems that this is discussed near enough every year, and no matter how we approach the situation it always ends up with us wanting to reconsider the choice.

When development are working hard to try and find out what would be best to implement for content updates, every time the community changes their mind in regards to the map it's a huge setback as they need to adjust their plans, change their code or sometimes even thrown out entire ideas because some features that have been discussed are unique to particular maps. We aren't in a position to keep on changing our map whenever the community feels like it, as our planning for certain updates would be extremely hindered by this.

The way I think of it, v4b1 is a good foundation. We've got a few things there right now, but it's nowhere near complete. Rather than asking for us to build on top of that foundation, it seems the community is much more interested in just wiping the foundation clear and starting afresh, trying to piece everything back together on top of the new foundation rather than waiting to see what emerges from development in regards to what I mentioned above. We've tried this before and it didn't work, what makes people think that this will work again? The TN map change decimated our player count and put us in a very scary position, Rockford was changed because there were a ton of people wanting it changed, so we did. And now we're back here?

To put this in perspective for you, rigging of maps is a very tiresome and time consuming process. For us to rig the maps we used in the trial run a while ago, it took us a combined 131.5 hours between a team of easily what must have been 10+ people, if not much more than that throughout the day and following evening. During the setup of those maps, we needed to setup properties (the doors needed to be manually setup, one by one, with a price and they needed to tie into additional doors in that property), entities (the food machines, weapon lockers, phone booths, weed and meth sellers all needed manually positioning and then we had to send over the locations to @Doctor Internet‍ so that they could be registered properly) spawnpoints (every spawnpoint for each job also needed to be setup, with the locations needing to be saved by @Doctor Internet‍ ‍ manually each time one was updated.) and locations (each area of the map needed to be manually setup by someone who knew what they were doing, after being told how to use the commands needed by Doc. If you messed up an area, it most likely needed to be scrapped and you'd need to start again. It wasn't an easy system to work with at all.)

And only once we were sure each part of the map was setup properly, we could move on. This took a while for us to run through each part of the map ensuring that each part had been successfully setup, and if it hadn't been then we'd need to spend more time taking care of the issues we found and relaying the info back to Doc. I remember being up until 2 in the morning grinding out the final details.

My point being is that it simply isn't feasible, necessary or appropriate for us to be continuing to discuss the map change when the map clearly isn't at fault here. Is v4b1 the prettiest, most modern and sleek map there is? Probably not, no. After all, it has been around years, but continuing to change our minds on the map on an almost yearly or however long it is basis will not help us. v4b1 has everything there that we need to build up a decent amount of content updates, some of which are actually in the works, which will help to improve player-to-player interaction and roleplay, both aggressive and passive. Our developers have much better things to be working on than watch a team of people run around a map setting it up with us, and it isn't fair to keep asking this of them when the map is not at fault here.

I recognize asking for patience may not be the best idea considering how long the community has been waiting for content already, but believe me when I say that good things take time to come about. Development are working very hard to try and get some decent content updates out there which will help improve the playstyle, and changing the map simply does not help us in the slightest and will inevitably cause further delays to these content updates from where the developers are having to assist in changing over maps or having to adjust their code to fit to a new map. I'm very much for seeing new content and I'm certain a lot of other people are looking for something new to do as well, but you can either sit on one side of the fence or the other, not both. Constantly switching sides doesn't help us, so rather than focusing on what map will be best for us, focus on what sorts of content you'd like to see to help improve the current playstyle. Let's work with what we have here.

Give it time and wait, a map change will help no one.

[Nudel]

In all honesty, it would take so much time to implement all those things that have been suggested in this thread... way too long. The devs are certainly capable of doing that but they've also got other things to do.

I personally also agree that content is more important than the map... but would it hurt to switch the map to Rockford? I mean I don't know how much bigger Rockford is in terms of space but that's about it, everything else that the current map has (Tesla chargers etc.) would be there as well. What are the downsides of switching?

In my opinion one can't stay on the same map forever anyways...At some point there will always be people that want a map switch which is normal. The only map (or map series) that's quite stable is Downtown but that's due to its layout and its use for DarkRP servers which can't be compared to Limelight's CityRP.

The downsides to it all will be people losing the dupes they sunk hours into. I know the big clans have compounds that wouldn't transfer well at all.

That argument is definitely not valid at all. People also lost all their Rockford dupes and TrueNorth dupes.

[Vinic]

-snipperino-

The downsides to it all will be people losing the dupes they sunk hours into. I know the big clans have compounds that wouldn't transfer well at all.

That argument is definitely not valid at all. People also lost all their Rockford dupes and TrueNorth dupes.

Not valid? How is it not valid? I'm really confused by what you're trying to say. Just because something happened in the past doesn't justify it now. I, personally, lost some of my most treasured bases when we switched from Rockford to TrueNorth and then from TrueNorth to EvoCity. And so because I lost those bases it's now okay to lose the ones I've grown attached to on EvoCity as well? Not a convincing argument at all.

Now even though I miss those bases, I don't want to lose what I have now on EvoCity. I also don't want us to set the devs behind yet again, as stated by @Night‍, and make us miss out on some truly amazing content in the works. I've said it once and I'll say it a thousand times, map changes are not productive to the server. We need to focus on depth and expanding our gamemode from a content standpoint rather than changing the map which adds *nothing* to the server.

-snipperino-

-snip, snip, snip-

"No good places to RP"? Did you not read my previous posts about the maps and how there is definately a much more varied RP on rockford and truenorth and how evocity has nothing... Where is the best place to RP on evocity? What unique RP has occurred on Evocity?

Here. I've put together this nice and simple graphic for you to understand my perspective on the matter:



Wow! Would you look at that. Rockford does have 2* more spots to RP than EvoCity. You're wanting to change the map for a whole new grocery store (something I've seen plenty of players do on their own at AMPM) and then a movie theatre (something nobody uses because we don't have a proper media player in-game). But you do get that rugged terrain for more difficult building and even a little bit of hang-gliding RP that people do so much and love so fondly.

I will say this: I like the look at feel of Rockford more, I do. Rockford actually has my favourite base I've ever made on it, Crescent Road, House 3. Even though I do miss that near unbeatable, masterful base, I'm not going to look at this with rose-coloured glasses. You won't get anything different on that map as you do from this one. A map won't change how people play, adding new aspects to the game by giving it a new and fresh feeling through adding new content will. As @Night has stated, the map changes only act to get in the way of content and bog down the dev team. It's time for this to stop and for us to work to better LimeLight in the long-run - a map change isn't what we need right now.

Last night i went online, there was roughly 20 people on, i drove about for a good 15-20 minutes around the map and only saw like 4-6 people. That would never happen if it were truenorth whats everyone doin? just camping in there houses farming weed?

TrueNorth almost killed the server because it was certainly too big and vacant. Do not make such outrageous claims when the evidence is against you in every way of the matter. The fact that TrueNorth was a bad map for the server and way too large for our player count is well understood, not just by me, and is a fact that should be respected if you truly have the best intentions for the server at heart.

[Mr.Sir]

The downsides to it all will be people losing the dupes they sunk hours into. I know the big clans have compounds that wouldn't transfer well at all.

That argument is definitely not valid at all. People also lost all their Rockford dupes and TrueNorth dupes.

Not valid? How is it not valid? I'm really confused by what you're trying to say. Just because something happened in the past doesn't justify it now. I, personally, lost some of my most treasured bases when we switched from Rockford to TrueNorth and then from TrueNorth to EvoCity. And so because I lost those bases it's now okay to lose the ones I've grown attached to on EvoCity as well? Not a convincing argument at all.

Now even though I miss those bases, I don't want to lose what I have now on EvoCity. I also don't want us to set the devs behind yet again, as stated by @Night‍, and make us miss out on some truly amazing content in the works. I've said it once and I'll say it a thousand times, map changes are not productive to the server. We need to focus on depth and expanding our gamemode from a content standpoint rather than changing the map which adds *nothing* to the server.

-snip, snip, snip-

"No good places to RP"? Did you not read my previous posts about the maps and how there is definately a much more varied RP on rockford and truenorth and how evocity has nothing... Where is the best place to RP on evocity? What unique RP has occurred on Evocity?

Here. I've put together this nice and simple graphic for you to understand my perspective on the matter:



Wow! Would you look at that. Rockford does have 2* more spots to RP than EvoCity. You're wanting to change the map for a whole new grocery store (something I've seen plenty of players do on their own at AMPM) and then a movie theatre (something nobody uses because we don't have a proper media player in-game). But you do get that rugged terrain for more difficult building and even a little bit of hang-gliding RP that people do so much and love so fondly.

I will say this: I like the look at feel of Rockford more, I do. Rockford actually has my favourite base I've ever made on it, Crescent Road, House 3. Even though I do miss that near unbeatable, masterful base, I'm not going to look at this with rose-coloured glasses. You won't get anything different on that map as you do from this one. A map won't change how people play, adding new aspects to the game by giving it a new and fresh feeling through adding new content will. As @Night has stated, the map changes only act to get in the way of content and bog down the dev team. It's time for this to stop and for us to work to better LimeLight in the long-run - a map change isn't what we need right now.

Last night i went online, there was roughly 20 people on, i drove about for a good 15-20 minutes around the map and only saw like 4-6 people. That would never happen if it were truenorth whats everyone doin? just camping in there houses farming weed?

TrueNorth almost killed the server because it was certainly too big and vacant. Do not make such outrageous claims when the evidence is against you in every way of the matter. The fact that TrueNorth was a bad map for the server and way too large for our player count is well understood, not just by me, and is a fact that should be respected if you truly have the best intentions for the server at heart.

I remember launch of TrueNorth and myself being all excited.
Played for a few hours but i did not at all get the feeling for the map, felt empty. Non interactive and hard to spot any players at all.
Evocity is the perfect size and map for LL.

[Eddie]

The downsides to it all will be people losing the dupes they sunk hours into. I know the big clans have compounds that wouldn't transfer well at all.

That argument is definitely not valid at all. People also lost all their Rockford dupes and TrueNorth dupes.

Not valid? How is it not valid? I'm really confused by what you're trying to say. Just because something happened in the past doesn't justify it now. I, personally, lost some of my most treasured bases when we switched from Rockford to TrueNorth and then from TrueNorth to EvoCity. And so because I lost those bases it's now okay to lose the ones I've grown attached to on EvoCity as well? Not a convincing argument at all.

Now even though I miss those bases, I don't want to lose what I have now on EvoCity. I also don't want us to set the devs behind yet again, as stated by @Night‍, and make us miss out on some truly amazing content in the works. I've said it once and I'll say it a thousand times, map changes are not productive to the server. We need to focus on depth and expanding our gamemode from a content standpoint rather than changing the map which adds *nothing* to the server.

-snip, snip, snip-

"No good places to RP"? Did you not read my previous posts about the maps and how there is definately a much more varied RP on rockford and truenorth and how evocity has nothing... Where is the best place to RP on evocity? What unique RP has occurred on Evocity?

Here. I've put together this nice and simple graphic for you to understand my perspective on the matter:



Wow! Would you look at that. Rockford does have 2* more spots to RP than EvoCity. You're wanting to change the map for a whole new grocery store (something I've seen plenty of players do on their own at AMPM) and then a movie theatre (something nobody uses because we don't have a proper media player in-game). But you do get that rugged terrain for more difficult building and even a little bit of hang-gliding RP that people do so much and love so fondly.

I will say this: I like the look at feel of Rockford more, I do. Rockford actually has my favourite base I've ever made on it, Crescent Road, House 3. Even though I do miss that near unbeatable, masterful base, I'm not going to look at this with rose-coloured glasses. You won't get anything different on that map as you do from this one. A map won't change how people play, adding new aspects to the game by giving it a new and fresh feeling through adding new content will. As @Night has stated, the map changes only act to get in the way of content and bog down the dev team. It's time for this to stop and for us to work to better LimeLight in the long-run - a map change isn't what we need right now.

Last night i went online, there was roughly 20 people on, i drove about for a good 15-20 minutes around the map and only saw like 4-6 people. That would never happen if it were truenorth whats everyone doin? just camping in there houses farming weed?

TrueNorth almost killed the server because it was certainly too big and vacant. Do not make such outrageous claims when the evidence is against you in every way of the matter. The fact that TrueNorth was a bad map for the server and way too large for our player count is well understood, not just by me, and is a fact that should be respected if you truly have the best intentions for the server at heart.

Where's the woods/Forest on evo?

[Zaidplays]

That argument is definitely not valid at all. People also lost all their Rockford dupes and TrueNorth dupes.

Not valid? How is it not valid? I'm really confused by what you're trying to say. Just because something happened in the past doesn't justify it now. I, personally, lost some of my most treasured bases when we switched from Rockford to TrueNorth and then from TrueNorth to EvoCity. And so because I lost those bases it's now okay to lose the ones I've grown attached to on EvoCity as well? Not a convincing argument at all.

Now even though I miss those bases, I don't want to lose what I have now on EvoCity. I also don't want us to set the devs behind yet again, as stated by @Night‍, and make us miss out on some truly amazing content in the works. I've said it once and I'll say it a thousand times, map changes are not productive to the server. We need to focus on depth and expanding our gamemode from a content standpoint rather than changing the map which adds *nothing* to the server.

"No good places to RP"? Did you not read my previous posts about the maps and how there is definately a much more varied RP on rockford and truenorth and how evocity has nothing... Where is the best place to RP on evocity? What unique RP has occurred on Evocity?

Here. I've put together this nice and simple graphic for you to understand my perspective on the matter:



Wow! Would you look at that. Rockford does have 2* more spots to RP than EvoCity. You're wanting to change the map for a whole new grocery store (something I've seen plenty of players do on their own at AMPM) and then a movie theatre (something nobody uses because we don't have a proper media player in-game). But you do get that rugged terrain for more difficult building and even a little bit of hang-gliding RP that people do so much and love so fondly.

I will say this: I like the look at feel of Rockford more, I do. Rockford actually has my favourite base I've ever made on it, Crescent Road, House 3. Even though I do miss that near unbeatable, masterful base, I'm not going to look at this with rose-coloured glasses. You won't get anything different on that map as you do from this one. A map won't change how people play, adding new aspects to the game by giving it a new and fresh feeling through adding new content will. As @Night has stated, the map changes only act to get in the way of content and bog down the dev team. It's time for this to stop and for us to work to better LimeLight in the long-run - a map change isn't what we need right now.

Last night i went online, there was roughly 20 people on, i drove about for a good 15-20 minutes around the map and only saw like 4-6 people. That would never happen if it were truenorth whats everyone doin? just camping in there houses farming weed?

TrueNorth almost killed the server because it was certainly too big and vacant. Do not make such outrageous claims when the evidence is against you in every way of the matter. The fact that TrueNorth was a bad map for the server and way too large for our player count is well understood, not just by me, and is a fact that should be respected if you truly have the best intentions for the server at heart.

Where's the woods/Forest on evo?

don't tell me your counting the little grassy areas and fake trees that arent even properly planted as a "forest"

[Vinic]

 -snip-

Where's the woods/Forest on evo?

don't tell me your counting the little grassy areas and fake trees that arent even properly planted as a "forest"

Rediculous semantics you're both attempting to argue here. The forested areas in between outside AMPM and the far side of the lake are more than enough for a small camping RP and provide plenty of space for you to add your own trees if you feel so inclined (the HL2:E2 trees are quite nice and I recommend them, in case you weren't aware of their existence).

If arguing about semantics is the hill you want to die on then that's up to you, but my core argument still stands that Rockford doesn't have much more than EvoCity, thus it's unnecessary to switch.

[Eddie]

Where's the woods/Forest on evo?

don't tell me your counting the little grassy areas and fake trees that arent even properly planted as a "forest"

Rediculous semantics you're both attempting to argue here. The forested areas in between outside AMPM and the far side of the lake are more than enough for a small camping RP and provide plenty of space for you to add your own trees if you feel so inclined (the HL2:E2 trees are quite nice and I recommend them, in case you weren't aware of their existence).

If arguing about semantics is the hill you want to die on then that's up to you, but my core argument still stands that Rockford doesn't have much more than EvoCity, thus it's unnecessary to switch.

That is absolutely rubbish Theo. That most certainly does not count as a forest/woods it's practically on the lake.

[Mr.Sir]

Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, Evocity is fine, bye.

[Vinic]

don't tell me your counting the little grassy areas and fake trees that arent even properly planted as a "forest"

Rediculous semantics you're both attempting to argue here. The forested areas in between outside AMPM and the far side of the lake are more than enough for a small camping RP and provide plenty of space for you to add your own trees if you feel so inclined (the HL2:E2 trees are quite nice and I recommend them, in case you weren't aware of their existence).

If arguing about semantics is the hill you want to die on then that's up to you, but my core argument still stands that Rockford doesn't have much more than EvoCity, thus it's unnecessary to switch.

That is absolutely rubbish Theo. That most certainly does not count as a forest/woods it's practically on the lake.

Again. Semantics. We have different views for the potential of the area(s) for RP. If you cannot see the potential of EvoCity then that's on you and not me. 

Furthermore, I ask you to stay on track and actually argue against my point that EvoCity has just as much RP potential as Rockford as a whole. Arguing about trees is such a small part that it's irrelevant. If you cannot do that then I see no need to continue this discussion.

[Eddie]

Rediculous semantics you're both attempting to argue here. The forested areas in between outside AMPM and the far side of the lake are more than enough for a small camping RP and provide plenty of space for you to add your own trees if you feel so inclined (the HL2:E2 trees are quite nice and I recommend them, in case you weren't aware of their existence).

If arguing about semantics is the hill you want to die on then that's up to you, but my core argument still stands that Rockford doesn't have much more than EvoCity, thus it's unnecessary to switch.

That is absolutely rubbish Theo. That most certainly does not count as a forest/woods it's practically on the lake.

Again. Semantics. We have different views for the potential of the area(s) for RP. If you cannot see the potential of EvoCity then that's on you and not me. 

Furthermore, I ask you to stay on track and actually argue against my point that EvoCity has just as much RP potential as Rockford as a whole. Arguing about trees is such a small part that it's irrelevant. If you cannot do that then I see no need to continue this discussion.

You added it on your table so clearly it is relevant.

[BasicallyMental]

we're still talking about this?
i swear night made it very clear no change was gonna happen