[Vauld]

lol u guys are hilarious. 

AS IF ANYONE is going to personally sue a gmod server. Especially Limelight. Do you know how much it costs to hire a lawyer to file an actual lawsuit, unless someone is a complete tard this should be the last of your concerns.

I feel like worrying about IG racism should be the bottom of the totem pole in terms of legal concerns, LL can currently be sued for a plethora of content & privacy violations from large gaming corporations. For example right now, any producers of content that LL utilizes can sue ya'll. Rockstar games for example can shut down LL instantly because you're utilizing some models and have a monetization scheme surrounding content that doesn't belong to LL. Literally any non-original content is currently grounds to sue the fk outta you guys bc LL is monetizing a gamemode based around non-original content.

Additionally I'm not exactly sure what the back-end of the databases look like, but I'm 99.9% confident LL is not compliant with all of the 99 articles of the GDPR rolled out in the U.K. which can also be used to shut down LL.

So yes, I get the concern but realistically IG racism seems like a small fish to fry. Also feel free to reach out to me if you'd like help working through these issues, I'm happy to provide consulting at $20/hr.

[Monkey]

Okay so here is a suggestion.

Basically, create a system that changes a player's state from OOC to IC which is controlled by a command.

To Enter OOC State (Admins override these):
1. No damage within the last thirty seconds
[This needs to be discussed more]

OOC State:
- Player Info changes to show current state
- Local chat is used for Local OOC chat
- Team chat is used for Global OOC chat
- Voice chat will show current state (maybe a set OOC color)
- Weapons are disabled
- No damage? (could be very abusive, idk)

IC State:
- Normal Stuff
- // and .// will be used as quick shortcuts to say something quick in OOC (or maybe remove them)

Actions done in the IC state will be considered IC, unless specifically determined by an administrator. Admins will have the ability to control other players' states.



This could help determine actions that are being done IC and OOC, but it needs a lot of discussion/changes to prevent major abuse and efficiency if it is even a viable option.

[Hungames]

Okay so here is a suggestion.

Basically, create a system that changes a player's state from OOC to IC which is controlled by a command.

To Enter OOC State (Admins override these):
1. No damage within the last thirty seconds
[This needs to be discussed more]

OOC State:
- Player Info changes to show current state
- Local chat is used for Local OOC chat
- Team chat is used for Global OOC chat
- Voice chat will show current state (maybe a set OOC color)
- Weapons are disabled
- No damage? (could be very abusive, idk)

IC State:
- Normal Stuff
- // and .// will be used as quick shortcuts to say something quick in OOC (or maybe remove them)

Actions done in the IC state will be considered IC, unless specifically determined by an administrator. Admins will have the ability to control other players' states.



This could help determine actions that are being done IC and OOC, but it needs a lot of discussion/changes to prevent major abuse and efficiency if it is even a viable option.

No offense, but that is the worst idea I've seen in a while.

This is a roleplay server, not a haha im in OOC cant fuck with me lolololol server. Allowing players to just leave RP situations is absurd. It's blatantly obvious when someone is OOC or IC, they use .//,//, or talk in voice about OOC shit. 

The whole issue is changing a rule without asking the community, despite the major impact it has on the server. The staff are coming up with a 0.0000000001% chance that rich boy Jimmy sues the server because slav Dimitri said the n-word in character. It's all BS and your plan makes it 10x worse.

[richie]

Rascisim is not a choice

it is, and it's disrespectful if you do it. just snobby people who do it who think they're better than other races. all are equal

You must hate rascists.

lol u can't spell, but that steam profile hasn't been touched in ages, i literally never look at it or use steam unless im bored asf

[GokuVII]

lol u guys are hilarious. 

AS IF ANYONE is going to personally sue a gmod server. Especially Limelight. Do you know how much it costs to hire a lawyer to file an actual lawsuit, unless someone is a complete tard this should be the last of your concerns.

I feel like worrying about IG racism should be the bottom of the totem pole in terms of legal concerns, LL can currently be sued for a plethora of content & privacy violations from large gaming corporations. For example right now, any producers of content that LL utilizes can sue ya'll. Rockstar games for example can shut down LL instantly because you're utilizing some models and have a monetization scheme surrounding content that doesn't belong to LL. Literally any non-original content is currently grounds to sue the fk outta you guys bc LL is monetizing a gamemode based around non-original content.

Additionally I'm not exactly sure what the back-end of the databases look like, but I'm 99.9% confident LL is not compliant with all of the 99 articles of the GDPR rolled out in the U.K. which can also be used to shut down LL.

So yes, I get the concern but realistically IG racism seems like a small fish to fry. Also feel free to reach out to me if you'd like help working through these issues, I'm happy to provide consulting at $20/hr.

  It has always been a risk for them, but they took it on 'racism' part. Fuck this bullshit, there is even no point arguing with them, Vauld.

[Pollux]

lol u guys are hilarious. 

AS IF ANYONE is going to personally sue a gmod server. Especially Limelight. Do you know how much it costs to hire a lawyer to file an actual lawsuit, unless someone is a complete tard this should be the last of your concerns.

I feel like worrying about IG racism should be the bottom of the totem pole in terms of legal concerns, LL can currently be sued for a plethora of content & privacy violations from large gaming corporations. For example right now, any producers of content that LL utilizes can sue ya'll. Rockstar games for example can shut down LL instantly because you're utilizing some models and have a monetization scheme surrounding content that doesn't belong to LL. Literally any non-original content is currently grounds to sue the fk outta you guys bc LL is monetizing a gamemode based around non-original content.

Additionally I'm not exactly sure what the back-end of the databases look like, but I'm 99.9% confident LL is not compliant with all of the 99 articles of the GDPR rolled out in the U.K. which can also be used to shut down LL.

So yes, I get the concern but realistically IG racism seems like a small fish to fry. Also feel free to reach out to me if you'd like help working through these issues, I'm happy to provide consulting at $20/hr.

  It has always been a risk for them, but they took it on 'racism' part. Fuck this bullshit, there is even no point arguing with them, Vauld.

Chill dude, they've already said they're working on something based on feedback in this thread. There's no need to get so heated over a rule change when it's already being worked on.

[Faustie]

Yep, we're working on changes and solutions.

We want more community feedback on this as it's clear that we massively underestimated the opposition to this and mistakes were made in rushing it. No sympathy with shutting down the extreme racism; but I do seriously understand the concerns of those who are worried about RP freedom and want to be able to roleplay discriminatory characters - so long as it's in character, this is fine, we just need to refine the rules and systems to prevent a few of the more severe issues.

The issues we're considering are:

IC/OOC: Some staff/players don't have a problem with this; some do. We can just tighten IC to strictly IC chat and voice only and separate license plates/descriptions etc. to avoid future issues.

Minors exposed to extremism: Probably not a huge issue overall and can be the same in many games, but the RP nature and small community can increase the risks here a bit. I've received quite a few messages from players and staff concerned about this so it's worth at least discussing.

Low quality RP or excuses for racism: The current staff poll on whether the RP is generally good/mixed/awful is around 0%/80%/20%. No-ones voting that it's pretty good, most in the middle, some think it's awful. This can hopefully be improved just by requiring better character development and roleplay to allow discriminatory RP.

Risk of preventing future growth: Not sure if this is a valid consideration but we'll poll the discussion group as active players and staff will know best. It's possible that an atmosphere with far too much extremism and slurs prevents new community members from feeling welcome. Of course, we don't want to chase the existing players away either so we shouldn't just focus towards growth. Same as applies to suggestions, really.

Potential legal issues: This is still the smallest consideration for the majority of the team; though some do disagree and rank it higher. The seriousness of how high we rank this as an issue has been overblown by the clarifying statement I made which gave it too much weight. We've since sat down, had a think about things based on a little more research and some of the more constructive posts made here and consider it a much more minor issue with some potential easy fixes that would mitigate any potential risk by reverting or removing parts/all of this rule, depending on the discussion.


We'll be holding a semi-open meeting later today for staff and players to discuss the implementation of this rule and what changes we could make to it. I say semi-open because giant discussion groups get out of handy very quickly, even for staff-only meetings. As such, those invited will be those who have contributed mature and constructive points - whether for or against the rule. Those excluded will be those who have just taken the opportunity to troll, snipe at the team or other players, or haven't taken this seriously. Sorry, but those of you in this group had every chance to be a bit more mature and discuss your concerns with a team that was very willing to listen to you. We haven't shut down or ignored this thread at all, so if you've wasted your chance to have further say that's on you.

We will be sending messages later to those invited and the resulting discussion will be made public. If you haven't posted in this thread but feel you have something to contribute, please message a staff member on Discord. If you've been posting in here and haven't received an invite or know you've been non-constructive but still feel like you want to contribute, feel free to message a staff member and explain why but I can't guarantee staff will agree on including you. You're welcome to speak to us, however.

[Montyfatcat]

Here's a point, what would the "general discrimination" part actually cover? Cultures? Race? Gender? Background? Cooking skills? Maybe not that last one, but if you're not RPly allowed to discriminate, technically you have to hire anybody who asks for a job.

[Cole]

I can very much see why this rule was added, there have been situations where people are racist, or otherwise discriminatory, OOC however they claim it's part of their IC roleplay (via voice, not text). However, I believe the rule was implemented with a little less thought and requires a part in the rules clarification thread to clarify some of what people are asking.

With clarification, I believe this rule will actually be pretty effective in stopping such situations, as rare as they may be for some users.

[Faustie]

A joint community/staff meeting was held today to discuss the issues surrounding this rule and identify some solutions. 9 very constructive community members were involved (including many active in this thread) - more were invited, but couldn't make it in time. I'm happy to say that several solutions were found and most were unanimously voted on by the joint community/staff group. As not every staff member was able to attend, it is now going through confirmatory voting to make sure that nothing obvious was missed. Hopefully you will hear an update by tomorrow evening and significant changes will be made to the new rule.

Many thanks to everyone - especially the community members - who attended. It was a very constructive meeting and you did a fantastic job in providing possible solutions.

[pufitee]

we did it boys!!

we got the rule fixed (hopefully)

#teampufitee

[greg]

A joint community/staff meeting was held today to discuss the issues surrounding this rule and identify some solutions. 9 very constructive community members were involved (including many active in this thread) - more were invited, but couldn't make it in time. I'm happy to say that several solutions were found and most were unanimously voted on by the joint community/staff group. As not every staff member was able to attend, it is now going through confirmatory voting to make sure that nothing obvious was missed. Hopefully you will hear an update by tomorrow evening and significant changes will be made to the new rule.

Many thanks to everyone - especially the community members - who attended. It was a very constructive meeting and you did a fantastic job in providing possible solutions.

why didnt you invite me

[Faustie]

Please refer to the new changes here.

[Insert]

Okay so here is a suggestion.

Basically, create a system that changes a player's state from OOC to IC which is controlled by a command.

To Enter OOC State (Admins override these):
1. No damage within the last thirty seconds
[This needs to be discussed more]

OOC State:
- Player Info changes to show current state
- Local chat is used for Local OOC chat
- Team chat is used for Global OOC chat
- Voice chat will show current state (maybe a set OOC color)
- Weapons are disabled
- No damage? (could be very abusive, idk)

IC State:
- Normal Stuff
- // and .// will be used as quick shortcuts to say something quick in OOC (or maybe remove them)

Actions done in the IC state will be considered IC, unless specifically determined by an administrator. Admins will have the ability to control other players' states.



This could help determine actions that are being done IC and OOC, but it needs a lot of discussion/changes to prevent major abuse and efficiency if it is even a viable option.

What kind of twisted GTA V Passive mode is this?

[Glofenduck]

I like how defensive they where at first and now they suddenly bend over