[Soviethooves]

@"Rocket" 

Explain to me how it’s unfair how a person has given 2 years of volunteer time to this community and doesn’t deserve a promotion to a position he could possibly be more active in?

Is it really that difficult to promote him to admin to see if his activity and usefulness increases on the forums? It isn’t like Admins seem to have hour requirements on the server anymore, so why not give him a chance he should have had long ago?

Also, it is important the community comments on these situations. If not, these problems wouldn’t come up. There is obviously something wrong and something has to be fixed internally

[BlackDog]

The fact of the matter is that no matter what  I say or how I say it most people won't admit they're in the wrong and would go to the furthest of extents to prove their points, people would surround themselves with people that will always agree with them just to feel secure about it and as soon as someone disagrees with them they feel threatened and start to antagonize them. 

For some reason people mistake my points for insults and make it very personal very quick, let me explain what I mean one more time and this time make sure to read the facts of what I am saying and not and not what you'd consider as my opinion, remember there is a big difference between fact, and opinion. 

Rocket, I feel i need to point this out, but this set right here is fairly ironic considering what you've said in the past and how you've acted against people who disagree with you, your almost acting like it all never happened.

Let me quote you verbatim while you we're speaking to me, doctor internet and a few others:

"I just love how you all Fumuku buddies always stick together like a family its honestly one of the main reasons that makes me wana leave this community. It is actualy retarded."

"You guys are killing this community and you don't even know it, Lizard left because he was a player who wished to help the community and got deneid an opportunity to do it. I know you guys are all cool in your teacher spots and eco chamber of friends, but you fail to see anyone else's perspective."

"You guys are actually pethatic, its pissing me off how much of this FUMUKU BS is making limelight cancerous and honestly from now on if I see any BS fumuku activity that's causing more and more cancer within the community in terms of Biased behavoir or two people working together or "letting off a friend because he didn't really break a rule" but he really did, if I see any of that shit from now on i'm going to make a big deal out of it.

Honestly, this shit needs to stop. IF you guys actualy give a fuck about the community and not your ego please stop with all your bullshit. Thank you"

You have done the very thing you say others have done, but to such a degree you we're self admittedly willing to target specific people to make your point, doing the very thing you claimed they did that was wrong, ignoring all other opinions or evidence to the contrary of your own.

As noted above: The skulduggery is unwarranted and unwanted. If you have problems with these people or groups, just talk to them instead of masking your actual opinion in pleasantries and nothings. 

It's not like they are not willing to speak to you should you so desire it.

[Cole]

Oof true that

[Taylor]

I dont get the issue tbh. Little activity = no promotion

Why would he need to be active in-game to take part in internal votes?

[Hungames]

I dont get the issue tbh. Little activity = no promotion

Why would he need to be active in-game to take part in internal votes?

That's kinda part of the job...

Just because he has been here for a long time doesn't mean he is deserving of having the duties of an administrator. Maybe if he was stage 2, but he is only a stage 1. Anyone can sit in a role for an extended period of time. It's not a qualification.

And in my opinion, it should be required to be active in-game in order to take part in votes. Why should you have a say if you aren't even contributing to the server itself?

[BlackDog]

I dont get the issue tbh. Little activity = no promotion

Why would he need to be active in-game to take part in internal votes?

That's kinda part of the job...

Just because he has been here for a long time doesn't mean he is deserving of having the duties of an administrator. Maybe if he was stage 2, but he is only a stage 1. Anyone can sit in a role for an extended period of time. It's not a qualification.

And in my opinion, it should be required to be active in-game in order to take part in votes. Why should you have a say if you aren't even contributing to the server itself?

Ingame activity for administrative staff is more lax than moderation due to the fact administrations primary function is the administration of server functions, votes and internal discussions that can affect the entire community.

Moderation members are now what Admins used to be back in the day, a primarily in-game monitoring group with a vote here or there for minor things.

Both positions are the vise versa of each other.

Mods need lots more in-game time, but little forum discussion time and votes if any at all.

Admins need little in-game time, but absolutely must be involved almost all discussions and votes.

The idea that a S1 could be bumped to Administrator is not as far fetched as one may think, though it is unlikely unless they have the experience an administrator may need.

I also have to note and quote:
"Just because he has been here for a long time doesn't mean he is deserving of having the duties of an administrator."

The same can be said of ModS1 to Mod S2 and ModS2 to Administrator and Administrator to Supervisory positions, just because they have been in their position for a long time does not mean they are qualified by default for any further positions, and the merits of who they are, how they act, what their qualifications are, and if they are a proper fit for the position should be taken into account more than time spent.

Currently two precedents have been set for both sides of this.

Being a Trial mod for long enough almost guarantees you a ModS1 position, thus setting the precedent for promotions based on time and merit.

Being brought onto the team straight to developer, setting the precedent for those who have the skill to do the job being brought on based on merit alone.


So in the end, its not impossible for this to occur, just unlikely.

[Hungames]

Currently two precedents have been set for both sides of this.

Being a Trial mod for long enough almost guarantees you a ModS1 position, thus setting the precedent for promotions based on time and merit.

Being brought onto the team straight to developer, setting the precedent for those who have the skill to do the job being brought on based on merit alone.


So in the end, its not impossible for this to occur, just unlikely.

I don't think these are comparable to modS1 to admin. IDK exactly how trial mod works, but it seems like it's similar to probation. After a predetermined time, you are deemed qualified to be promoted to the most basic of positions. Promoting to admin based on the fact that he has been here for a long time degrades the standard associated with the position. Time =/= merit.

And for the developer bit, the whole role seems to be based on merit. Despite the fact that some of the devs are former contributors, they are qualified and promoted because they are capable of doing the job required of them. This is contrary to Toxic. He may be a good moderator, but the time he has been here doesn't negate the activity needed for a promotion.

[Faustie]

This is all a little overblown, especially with people trying to speak on Toxic's behalf. As for all the FUMUKU nonsense, I am genuinely surprised that it is somehow still deemed relevant here.

That being said, I understand the community's concerns on the matter and I'll try and shed a little bit more light on the case if it helps. Just try and keep things a bit more chill here - one thing obvious here is that despite the differing opinions on the matter, everyone posting seems to want a combination of what's best for Toxic and LL. Nothing wrong with that.

S1 mod is not considered a trial role - that's trial mod. S2 mod is effectively in-game admin. Admin is, of course, admin. We have expected timelines set for progression but progression isn't a requirement, though it is desired. In fact, for a time we were even trying to actively increase the number of mods in S1/S2 roles in order to make the role seem more desirable, as we were running into problems of mods getting salty they weren't admins, and admins refusing to step down to mod for inactivity or other reasons as the role was poorly perceived. There's nothing wrong with the mod role - it's a good role and just has some changes from admin. 

However, we do try and encourage progression, as if someone is active and learning, then they can do more to support LL from a higher role. The admin team has been looking at Toxic's progression for quite a long time now (perhaps an understatement), but this has been plagued with a few issues, mainly Toxic's intensive IRL job as of late, which of course should always take priority.

Unfortunately, I must admit that there have certainly been systemic problems in the support process from the staff team in this case. Toxic should have indeed had more support at an earlier stage in order to encourage progression to S2, and this was not adequately provided. We've since implemented a more accountable mentor system, though the accountability part is still in its early days (admins are volunteers too, presents some difficulties and we have to be fair). The primary issue is still inactivity right now, but hopefully we can avoid something like this happening again.

So, as usual, a little of column A, a little of column B. The reality is neither that Toxic is permanently unsuitable for S2 or too inactive and the team is infallible, nor is it that the team has been terrible and actively discouraging promotion. As if often the case with reality, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Please try and keep that in mind before sniping each other over this issue.

I'd direct you to @Enzyme or @Overlewd for further questions on this.

[Jokhah]

[greg]

yeah its kinda like reps, u keep askin for it yaint gon get it so