[Hungames]

I think this whole conversation is great.  Just a bunch of opinions.  Nothing actually solid to go on.  Homosexuality is found in nature, gender transformation is found in nature.  Just because you feel some sort of way about it, doesn't mean you are more right then nature.  Make all the excuses you want.  It happens in nature.  If you are on the religious end of the argument, your god made all of those creatures.

Transgenderism is found in nature when it provides an advantage to the animal, not because they feel they are something different than what they are. Animals aren't advanced enough to do this with a conscious thought in mind. They are doing it simply to survive. Acting like the opposite gender aids in natural selection so it continues to happen.

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It was bad to be black, it was bad to be gay, now its bad to change your gender.  Man, lots of other people like to make opinions of what is right and wrong as it suits them.  What are you gonna do when being who YOU are is considered bad?  I hope you meet all the bullshit you threw up at all the others, when that time comes.

Being against transgenderism is not discriminatory. Being against someone on the basis of race or nationality is discriminatory, but being against a concept that goes against basic biology is just pragmatic. It is a fact that there are two genders, as determined by chromosomes. Yes, there are some people who have extra x or y chromosomes, but those are classified as syndromes. 

[Toxic]

Free country innit

[Lord Octagon]

Using the fact that some animals have homosexual relations as an attempt to justify such relations in humans is not appropriate. Animals also practice incest, rape, murder, theft, physical abuse, and even cannibalism. Does this make all these things 'natural' and therefore acceptable for us as humans? 

reductio ad absurdum

There is no basis for applying animal behaviour to humans, we do not consider rape, murder, incest, theft, physical abuse, and cannibalism to be acceptable. Ironically, this in itself is further confirmation that we are really made in the image and likeness of God, not animals.


We are capable of understanding that these acts are wrong, animals cannot. You also like to quote the Bible, so here's one for you. The law of God has been written on our hearts.

Romans 2:15
They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them

Although animals may be able to express some emotions, use simple tools, solve problems, speak a few words, and even mourn for their dead, they do not match the intellectual, technological and spiritual capacity of humans. 

You don't see animals placing humans in zoos.
You don't see animals training humans to perform physical labour.
You don't see animals constructing civilisations.
You don't see animals obeying moral laws.
You don't see animals building churches to hear the teachings of the Gospel.

[Eddie]

Using the fact that some animals have homosexual relations as an attempt to justify such relations in humans is not appropriate. Animals also practice incest, rape, murder, theft, physical abuse, and even cannibalism. Does this make all these things 'natural' and therefore acceptable for us as humans? 

reductio ad absurdum

There is no basis for applying animal behaviour to humans, we do not consider rape, murder, incest, theft, physical abuse, and cannibalism to be acceptable. Ironically, this in itself is further confirmation that we are really made in the image and likeness of God, not animals.


We are capable of understanding that these acts are wrong, animals cannot. You also like to quote the Bible, so here's one for you. The law of God has been written on our hearts.

Romans 2:15
They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them

Although animals may be able to express some emotions, use simple tools, solve problems, speak a few words, and even mourn for their dead, they do not match the intellectual, technological and spiritual capacity of humans. 

You don't see animals placing humans in zoos.
You don't see animals training humans to perform physical labour.
You don't see animals constructing civilisations.
You don't see animals obeying moral laws.
You don't see animals building churches to hear the teachings of the Gospel.

@Lord Octagon  you appear to believe that no human has had sexual intercourse with a near-family member (I have not), however it is known that people have. Take this article from the Sun for an example 

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https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2204282/...-siblings/ The article clearly states how two siblings are living their life with two children, and find nothing wrong with it. Octagon you also say that animals can now have emotions ("We are capable of understanding that these acts are wrong, animals cannot"), animals can in fact feel and tell what is wrong and wat isn't. For an example us humans are animals. And now lets presume you didn't include humans in your definition of animals. We can take dogs as another example, the basic six emotions are happiness, sadness, fear, anger, surprise and disgust. You may think that these are the only emotions dogs have but you are wrong they actually feel a lot more such as jealousy. (link to

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Can dogs feel jealousy? - wagswalking )

Now I have gone a bit off subject their so here's the bit that is on subject:

On page 3 you stated that "Homosexuality is also a mental illness. You don't plug a plug into a plug" where is your source for this? Homosexuality is not classified as a mental illness since the 1960's (roughly). I'm not going to add a quote about homosexuality from the bible instead I am going to add a more recent quote this generation maybe? “The important thing is not the object of love, but the emotion itself.” ~ Gore Vidal

In your most latest post you also stated "You don't see animals building churches to hear the teachings of the Gospel. " how has the gospel come into this equation? What has the gospel got to do with who you are? Who you love? And what you look like?

[Lord Octagon]

Don't cherrypick. I clearly stated "we do not consider rape, murder, incest, theft, physical abuse, and cannibalism to be acceptable. " I didn't say those things do not exist.

Regarding animals and their intelligence I also said this:

"they do not match the intellectual, technological and spiritual capacity of humans. 

You don't see animals placing humans in zoos.
You don't see animals training humans to perform physical labour.
You don't see animals constructing civilisations.
You don't see animals obeying moral laws."

[Preditor]

I think this whole conversation is great.  Just a bunch of opinions.  Nothing actually solid to go on.  Homosexuality is found in nature, gender transformation is found in nature.  Just because you feel some sort of way about it, doesn't mean you are more right then nature.  Make all the excuses you want.  It happens in nature.  If you are on the religious end of the argument, your god made all of those creatures.

It was bad to be black, it was bad to be gay, now its bad to change your gender.  Man, lots of other people like to make opinions of what is right and wrong as it suits them.  What are you gonna do when being who YOU are is considered bad?  I hope you meet all the bullshit you threw up at all the others, when that time comes.

I still remember when people raged out against science too, but look who won that argument.


*drops mic*

P.S. If you are Christian and engaging in the argument, you forgot something.....

Matt.7. [1] Judge not, that ye be not judged. [2] For with what judgment ye judge, yeshall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. [3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

I mean I never brought religion into anything that I said, I used the fact that men have the Y chromosome and women do not. This isn't an opinion this is factual data, and as I said again I'm not discriminating when I said transgenderism should be a mental disorder, I don't make fun of people with depression or anxiety issues and society generally doesn't either.

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[Dan]

There is nothing wrong with incest!!

[Hungames]

There is nothing wrong with incest!!

good ol texas yeehaw

[Jokhah]

This whole debate makes me laugh.  I love how people are so concerned with what other people are doing with their own bodies.  Like its an epidemic that will spread to others.  Animals can be homosexual, animals can change gender, so can humans.


Comparing a sex change to murder is like comparing water to a brick.  They have nothing to do with one another.

Comparing a sex change to rape is like comparing water to a coffee pot.  They both involve water, but one involves much more then simply water.  To explain, having a penis or a vagina is required to perform a rape, but they aren't the causes of a rape, nor anything beyond the means to perform a rape.

Comparing a sex change to incest, see above.  Gentiles is required for sex, but aren't the sole reasoning behind who or why the sex is happening in most cases.

Comparing a sex change to theft is like comparing a donation to theft.  They are choosing to get rid of their junk, it's not being stolen.

Comparing a sex change to physical abuse is like saying the cutter is abusing himself.  Not saying something may not be wrong with him, but he's not abusing himself, he's mutilating himself.  There is a difference.

Comparing a sex change to cannibalism is again, like water to a brick.  Sex isn't a driving factor in our species anymore, hunger is, and some cultures have had to resort to eatting one another for survival.  Instances of this activity are spread to nearly every civilization to date, including in the USA.



Pretty much every thing that @Lord Octagon threw up as a crime, with the exception to incest, involves victimizing another person, therefore they are all thrown into a different pot.  Being trans doesn't victimize others unless it is forced upon them.

Incest, while disturbing and sometimes illegal, isn't always illegal and doesn't typically victimize anyone unless it involves rape.

For a crime to take place, there has to be a victim.  Where is the victim in a sex change operation?


I mean, good luck with all of the genital policing.

[Lord Octagon]

I see you can't read, or are just blatantly ignorant. 

Using the fact that some animals have homosexual relations as an attempt to justify such relations in humans is not appropriate. Animals also practice incest, rape, murder, theft, physical abuse, and even cannibalism. Does this make all these things 'natural' and therefore acceptable for us as humans? 

reductio ad absurdum

Animals do not understand that incest is bad, they do not understand murder is bad. So why would they understand that homosexuality is bad? They do not have the ability to comprehend those actions, so you cannot simply say it is natural to have homosexual tendencies, when it is obviously not natural to have murderous ones.

I am simply saying that the argument that "BECAUSE ANIMALS DO IT, IT IS OK FOR US TO AS WELL" is a weak one.

[Jokhah]

@Lord Octagon 

And comparing a sex change to murder, incest, rape, theft, physical abuse isn't a weak argument?

[Lord Octagon]

You still don't get it. Let me quote something else I've said.

"they do not match the intellectual, technological and spiritual capacity of humans. 

You don't see animals placing humans in zoos.
You don't see animals training humans to perform physical labour.
You don't see animals constructing civilisations.
You don't see animals obeying moral laws."

And don't come out with some BS and say "ZOMG YOU CAN'T COMPARE SEXUALITY WITH CONSTRUCTING CIVILISATIONS".

All I've done is make the case that animals do not have the capabilities to understand the concept of a homosexual relationship, and therefore it is a weak argument to say that because some animals have homosexual relations therefore it is biological dogma.

[Jokhah]

@Lord Octagon 

I didn't say anything about animals in my last msg.  You avoided the question.

[Eddie]

Don't cherrypick. I clearly stated "we do not consider rape, murder, incest, theft, physical abuse, and cannibalism to be acceptable. " I didn't say those things do not exist.

Regarding animals and their intelligence I also said this:

"they do not match the intellectual, technological and spiritual capacity of humans. 

You don't see animals placing humans in zoos.
You don't see animals training humans to perform physical labour.
You don't see animals constructing civilisations.
You don't see animals obeying moral laws."

@Lord Octagon you can say I "cherrpick" at your response when actually all I did was analyse the key factors of it.

Anyway Octagon all you have done is quoted some religious quotes from the bible and provide no actual evidence for your opinion (which will remain you opinion until you actually find evidence), furthermore you seem to believe that being transgender or homosexual is wrong. How is exactly do you find this to be wrong? I personally believe that if you are in love with your partner then there is nothing wrong with that no matter of their sex as the only reason why you are in a relationship is because of their personality. I also think that there is nothing wrong with being transgender, if you want to be boy or a girl then whose stopping you? Oh wait you are Octagon as you seem to also believe that it is morally wrong and then you insert a religious quote or your opinion. 

You also seem to believe that only humans have "homosexual thoughts" when actually you couldn't be more wrong. A zoo in New York has two penguins, Roy and Silo. They are both in a relationship because penguins mate for life (link

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here).

You also appear to be saying that people have a weak argument when actually you have had a weak argument on several occasions, one of them was when you compared transgender people to murderers and thieves.  

[Lord Octagon]

Where did I say ONLY humans have homosexual 'thoughts'? I pretty clearly agreed that there are cases where animals have engaged in homosexual activity.

I didn't compare transgender people to murderers or thieves. Read again.

Don't try to spin my words and pull claims out of thin air.