[The Rock]

Teachers should be perfect, any form of punishment should result in long bans from the team imo.

We all are humans , and we all do mistakes , no one is and no one will be perfect

[Soviethooves]

@"Faustin" 

But then we go back to the issue of small mistakes. Why should a teacher lose their rank completely for a small infraction? And if they do lose the rank, what can we do to gain that trust back to be a Teacher? Surely a permanent demotion is not the answer in all cases.

[Taylor]

@"Faustin" 

But then we go back to the issue of small mistakes. Why should a teacher lose their rank completely for a small infraction? And if they do lose the rank, what can we do to gain that trust back to be a Teacher? Surely a permanent demotion is not the answer in all cases.

I never said it should be the punishment in all cases, but it depends what you class as a "small mistake".

[Brynn]

So staff should be held to a lower standard than teachers. Those with the power to actively cause harm in the server have a lower standard?

I never said they're at a lower standard of punishment, I said it needs to be done in a different way, and the punishments staff get are normally dependant on what they've done wrong.

You state that any rule breaches from teachers should be met with a lengthy ban from the team.
However, you state that staff may be spoken to by HR. This doesn't always lead to a lengthy ban from the team.

So a teacher breaks a rule, banned from the team. Moderator breaks a rule, not banned from the team.

Please correct me if I've misunderstood you.

You've quoted Soviet's demotion thread to back up your point, however I'm not going to use that as an example because there was a lot of behind scenes stuff before his demotion. Which is not for the public eye.

As for what was said after that, teachers put themselves forward to the role but moderators don't. Without sounding like an arsehole or belittling teachers, moderators and admins do a lot more for the server (such as behind the scenes or physically on the server). Don't get me wrong teachers do a good job by helping people, but getting rid of an admin can have a lot more drawbacks.

^ That's what I meant when I said they needed to be dealt with differently.

[Jokhah]

I've always been a by the book guy.  If a teacher did something unbecoming of a teacher, they should be removed from the position and put into a holding period before they can re-apply.  When a moderator/admin fucks up bad enough to actually receive punishment, they are (should be) demoted.

Teachers ARE part of the team.  Sure, they aren't administration, but they have accepted the responsibility of performing a specific set of tasks for the community.  Seeing them do things that they shouldn't be doing, when they are supposed to be the people telling you how to do things should you ask, makes no sense.

Simply put, if anyone on the team tab does shit contrary to their position, they should be removed from said position.  Excusing one of them and not another one of them is clearly biased behavior.  Excusing all of them would lead to a zero repercussion environment.  So sticking to the text is best method.

Not to say I feel anyone specifically should be demoted from anything.  Just expressing my opinion on how we have rules that are bent left and right to spare people's feelings.


Example: I applied for teacher, I caught a blacklist, I asked for my application to be closed because I obviously didn't know the rules as well as I should.

Example 2: Teacher breaks rule bad enough to receive punishment, teacher is "suspended from duty" for one week, only to return to the same place?

Seems harder to join the team than to hold the position.

Logically it makes no sense to demand less of a teacher because they made a mistake.  Obviously you cannot demand that they work harder at the position in the form of "extra duty."  That only leaves removing them till such a time that they have obviously learned and grown from the mistake.  Teachers aren't permanent positions anyway.



In regards to small mistakes: If the mistake was truly small, no punishment would have been issued.  I define a small mistake as : A mistake that does NOT impact the play experience of others in a negative fashion.  Extra wiggle room is added for aggressive rp situations because those situations tend to include many more variables than passive rp.


Small mistake: Forgetting to correctly adjust a keypad timer, 1 member of a raid forgetting to correctly set job title, and similar.

Ultimately, most of these mistakes aren't paired with more than a warning unless there are multiple counts.

I'm not sure exactly what you did, nor am I asking.  The responding staff member felt the need to issue a punishment over the issue instead of issuing a warning.  If the deciding factor to issue a punishment was simply "he's a teacher" then you shouldn't have had a suspension of position.  If the deciding factor was "that is an obvious rule violation, what are you doing?" then you should be demoted (and can reapply after X time), as it was more than a minor infraction.  Same should go for all people who agree to working a position within the community, even steven.

[Brax]

Removing a teacher from their position due to an infraction or situation which requires discipline is absolutely pointless. Sure the teacher can't give REP, change models or do any of their other usual duties in the meantime, they can't read the oh so important teacher lounge forum, but they still play the server. Most times they still roleplay, answer questions and continue business as usual. Then in about a week rank is re-instated and everyone moves on.


The problem here is in the ultimate grey area that the Teachers operate in. They're on the Limelight Staff Team, but they're not "Administrative Staff", which is a point that many in the high up region cling onto for dear life. They're punished several times more severely than that of Administrative Staff, and that to me is a problem. While an Administrator may get several "internal HR talks" after abuse cases and reports, if a Teacher is reported successfully they are booted. No talk.

Level the playing field. Start issuing these temporary suspensions to Staff as well, and in my opinion, if a Teacher has acquired a record, especially if part of it was gained while they were a teacher, they shouldn't be a teacher.

[Baskingner]

The problem here is in the ultimate grey area that the Teachers operate in. They're on the Limelight Staff Team, but they're not "Administrative Staff", which is a point that many in the high up region cling onto for dear life. They're punished several times more severely than that of Administrative Staff, and that to me is a problem. While an Administrator may get several "internal HR talks" after abuse cases and reports, if a Teacher is reported successfully they are booted. No talk.

If this is true then that is an serious issue. If anything administrators should be punished more harshly then teachers due to the 'Police-like' nature of their job. You cant have administrators breaking the rules and have them ban someone else for a rulebreak an hour later. It will create salty people, biasness or even worse, you can get used to it. 

I see people respond to this with 'we are all humans, we arent perfect'. Im human, certainly not perfect either but i sure as hell can follow some rules on a Gmod server, you dont need to be perfect for that. There is a big difference (like Jokhah said) between forgetting to change your jobnames once or the break FearRP. The first offence can be forgiven once, maybe twice, but administrators breaking FearRP (or breaking any basic rule for that matter) should be a big no-no.

[Soviethooves]

@Daley @"Nightmare" 

Could we have your stances on the punishments handed out to Teachers and responses to arguments and points brought up here?