[GokuVII]

Let us take myself as an example, if I happen to be partial to some members, staff or which ever the groups are, will it harm the community, as if staff members do that? Of course there will be differences in terms of individual partiality, THEREFORE you as a staff member should be held accountable for your partiality/bias.

@Preditor  has said it, if you cannot fulfill your administrative responsibilities, then simply leave or keep your position as a developer. This will make your life and ours easier.

That's great.

If you believe that my impartiality has been compromised, or that I am biased, please contact the Human Resources department with any evidence to support your claim.

Also, if you could please not make unsubstantiated insinuations about my impartiality, please and thank you.

My statement might've been directly intended to you, but it was not. As you replied to me I had to explain it to you, in order to clarify things. If I happen to see some sort of partiality from you, I wouldn't be asking nor stating it to you Doc. But I am talking in general.

[CJT]

Let us take myself as an example, if I happen to be partial to some members, staff or which ever the groups are, will it harm the community, as if staff members do that? Of course there will be differences in terms of individual partiality, THEREFORE you as a staff member should be held accountable for your partiality/bias.

@Preditor  has said it, if you cannot fulfill your administrative responsibilities, then simply leave or keep your position as a developer. This will make your life and ours easier.

That's great.

If you believe that my impartiality has been compromised, or that I am biased, please contact the Human Resources department with any evidence to support your claim.

Also, if you could please not make unsubstantiated insinuations about my impartiality, please and thank you.

This is a GMOD community, not fucking oxford, now please use words for us retarded minds

Exactly its GMOD , calm down

[Quest]

@CJT 
I just gave my experiences which then developed into this.

People on both sides should calm down.

[Brynn]

Biasness in staff is something that will always occur. The only way I can see it being stopped is by saying 'staff are not allowed to join clans or deal with @ calls that their friends sent' because at the end of the day thats where the biasness lies.

Certain staff members just need to not deal with their friends/clan members, because certain staff will try and get there friends/clan members out of trouble. That was something that was very clear to me when I was both admin, and HR. However without evidence they get away with it.

[Jokhah]

Just want to take this moment to remind everyone that the topic of discussion is community bias, not administrative bias.  Someone else made a wonderful thread in this same serious subforum on that topic.  If what you have to say ONLY pretains to that topic, please take it to that thread.

Not attempting to be rude, but this thread seems to have gone both off topic and into some form of back and forth opinion game about staff bias.  While the feedback is welcome, I'd prefer if you can tie those thoughts to the original topic in some way.

Also, this is the serious discussion threads and I chose it for the rules that apply to them.  Please refrain from posting meme-ish animated gifs that aren't required for the topic of discussion.  While they are comical, this isn't the right place for it.

[richie]

Biasness in staff is something that will always occur. The only way I can see it being stopped is by saying 'staff are not allowed to join clans or deal with @ calls that their friends sent' because at the end of the day thats where the biasness lies.

Certain staff members just need to not deal with their friends/clan members, because certain staff will try and get there friends/clan members out of trouble. That was something that was very clear to me when I was both admin, and HR. However without evidence they get away with it.

come back olease

[Project]

Community bias/toxicity is an issue that needs to be addressed. There are too many players that are trying to get a reaction out of people and the report them for it. It creates a toxic environment for all of us, be that a new players, a veteran player, a teacher or staff member. If someone does something out of bias with malicious intent, they will be dealt with, be that a player or an admin. There is a reason why the player report, admin abuse and the HR exist.

It is tiring seeing people trying to find a problem where there isn't one. It is simply toxic and annoying.

[Hungames]

Just want to take this moment to remind everyone that the topic of discussion is community bias, not administrative bias.  Someone else made a wonderful thread in this same serious subforum on that topic.  If what you have to say ONLY pretains to that topic, please take it to that thread.
The problem is the two are closely related. You can't discuss one without discussing the other side by side. When the staff show a bias, the community shows a bias back. The difference is one group has power, while the other doesn't. 

Not attempting to be rude, but this thread seems to have gone both off topic and into some form of back and forth opinion game about staff bias.  While the feedback is welcome, I'd prefer if you can tie those thoughts to the original topic in some way.
As I just said, this is due to the fact that "community bias" stems from staff bias. The staff choose the direction the server heads in. The staff issue punishments. The staff have total control. The community picks up on problems that often never get fixed, and therefore, start forming a personal bias. The staff form a bias usually, in my experience, to support themselves, their friends, or to silence the opposition. The community is unable to do such things, resulting in the creation of their own bias. At the moment, it's a never ending cycle.

Also, this is the serious discussion threads and I chose it for the rules that apply to them.  Please refrain from posting meme-ish animated gifs that aren't required for the topic of discussion.  While they are comical, this isn't the right place for it.

The problem with bias, in my opinion, is trying to prove it. Evidence of bias can be downplayed as isolated incidents quite easily. Staff can say "contact HR", but what actually comes of this? You provide evidence of one situation. This doesn't prove bias. You would have to repeatedly get into similar situations with the same person in order to prove it. At this point, it seems like you are on a witch hunt. 

Additionally, with many of the staff members being buddies, the likelihood of something being done is slim. Even if someone is replaced because they were found to be biased, who is going to take their place? Just another friend of the admins. 

[Jen]

Additionally, with many of the staff members being buddies, the likelihood of something being done is slim. Even if someone is replaced because they were found to be biased, who is going to take their place? Just another friend of the admins.

Yes, certain members of the staff team are friends. Because we spend a lot of time helping each other on the server and supporting one enough. It wouldn't be a team if everyone hated each other. Bear in mind I haven't said that we have all best of mates, but we can stand one enough to a degree that the community would class as friends.

[goigle]

Why should the staff be unbiased when you have biased players hanging around?  Why do you expect more of the staff then you do your own circle?  Why is it okay for members to support biased behavior against others but when a staff makes a bad call he should be demoted for bias?

Being staff is give and take. You get some power/freedom and relinquish some other freedoms. Staff are held above players for a reason. Staff can get demoted for things that players can do without a problem.

I don't think anyone is saying staff can't be biased at all, that would be absurd. What people want is for staff to not be biased when making decisions / giving out punishments / using their power in general.

I can't imagine being mad over a staff member doing something that a player did even if it was biased.

Bias is just human nature. Everyone is biased.

[Jokhah]

@Hungames 

I do agree that the two topics are closely related, however the primary topic is about community bias not staff bias.  There is nearly a full page and a half worth of comments that pretty much exclusively discuss staff bias, which would be better suited for the other thread.


To Everyone:

There are about 3 pages to try and reply to and I simply can't keep track of what all is there.  Some great feedback, some not so great feedback too.  Lets try to remain semi-professional here and not make this a blame game.  Everyone is biased, like @goigle  said, so in that respect we are all in some way to blame.

The overall point is to suggest that though there are issues (claims, accusations, ect) of staff bias, there is also the issue of player bias.  This comes in multiple forms, many being generally harmless and non-malicious.  There are those that are intentionally not harmless and/or malicious as well.  Just like a biased staff is detrimental to your experience or potentially playtime, it can be equally detrimental to have biased players performing the same task.

While there are rules that cover some of it, there are also many wide gaps to which a person is allowed to negatively impact someone's experience here in the community.  For instance, I cannot (EXAMPLE NOT INSULT) say "Doctor Internet is a cockfag, ....", but I can troll around every little thing he does and get away with jabbing or countering him purely because I don't like him, regardless of whatever the actual topic is.  I can't (IN GAME) shoot him in his face whenever I see him because I don't like him, but I can grab up my friends and purposely go out of my way to (IN CHARACTER) make his life a living hell, simply because I don't like him.  I can't ban Internet, but I can force situations on him that I could then use to attempt a PR on him.

I agree that in moderation, some of these things can happen and that's fine.  Its a different thing entirely when its repeatedly targeted behavior.  Worst part is its considered fine unless you can damning evidence, you'll just be disregarded.  So in this aspect, the staff cannot help us fix the issue, it's on us to figure out what compromises we can make to make this a better place and maybe stop shitting on one another and the staff over spilt milk so to speak.

Again, all feedback welcome, but please try to stay on topic.

[Welker]

There seems to be alot of acceptance for bias behavior, you obviously can never remove it. But why does nobody attempt make an effort to reduce it? 

Having a criteria for which staff members can get involved (Both publicly and privately) in courthouse cases would be a start. I don't think this is a very radical idea, it seems to be the overall notion I get from most people on this thread. 

Generally I have no problem with what others call 'bias' like clans having an advantage, prop wise, player models, ETC. Decent clans would not exist without administrative advantages and I am fine with that. Overall my problem starts and ends in the areas like PRs, UBRs and decision making as a whole. Though I do think this discussion has devolved from 'community bias' to 'admin bias' again so this will be my last admin related post on this thread..

Conflicts like this will break the already split community. An amicable and fair solution can be made for all parties, what that solution is, I do not know.

[The Rock]

Bla bla bla , theres always something to discuss and normally its a shitty thing , bias bias , a guy fart its bias , a guy killed friend of other guy its a bias , admins do something u do like its bias .... dammmm this community have lack of maturity from few players , second this became a community that its a bit toxic already , not because of all but because of some , this place had life and was enjoyable to be , people used to be friendly , but not anymore and day by day goes wayyy more worse , by this way , this gonna turn into minge community , rather then guilty others , try to make them better and try to make this place better , solution wont come from any admin or from any player or from HR , ill come from all if we put your diversity in one side and work all together to same side without being rudes to each others

[Quest]

Bla bla bla , theres always something to discuss and normally its a shitty thing , bias bias , a guy fart its bias , a guy killed friend of other guy its a bias , admins do something u do like its bias .... dammmm  this community have lack of maturity from few players , second this became a community that its a bit toxic already , not because of all but because of some , this place had life and was enjoyable to be , people used to be friendly  , but not anymore and day by day goes wayyy more worse , by this way , this gonna turn into minge community , rather then guilty others , try to make them better and try to make this place better , solution wont come from any admin or from any player or from HR , ill come from all if we put your diversity in one side and work all together to same side without being rudes to each others

Dude, you should have been in the FUMUKU teamspeak with me and @"IVNT" last night, then you'll know what maturity is.

[richie]

ISA Rule #6.