[MLG_Kieubasa92]

-Not Involved. Warned-

[Toro PDX]

-Not involved. Warned-

[Cole]

I was involved in both incidents, the one that took place here and the one that took place yesterday in the ravine. In my opinion both times no significant advantage was gained but simply a different means of transport, the VTOL was not bulletproof and did allow us to get shot and hurt whilst inside the VTOL, hence the fact that I was on 54ish HP before we landed.

As for this incident, we was landing in areas which had sufficient space to fit the aircraft (so not in trees or land posts etc.), this aircraft is also as realistic sounding and looking(with the thrusters) you’re going to get with the current availability for different options in games pbviously there are both game and gamemode restrictions preventing it from being completely realistic.

[Kahjo]

Also, if you played as a paramedic with it, why did you respond to every single paramedic call? Isn't the medic helicopter used for serious things like a car crash with someone hurt neck & back or etc.

[Cole]

Is that directed at me or BlackDog, Kahjo? Asking as I was the paramedic at the time but the way you’re saying it implies you thought BlackDog was a medic.

[Kahjo]

Both I suppose, as you both were in it doing it (I assume). I got the screenshots from a Off Topic thread, I was not online at the moment that this happened.

[PaulB]

I was involved in the second incident.
I just want to clarify that the VTOL was used as an advantage by doing the second transportation that led us to be flanked, cars would of had to travel down the road in which we were shooting them to make sure they couldn't. There was no way in which to stop the VTOL while it was airborne as the pilot can't be touched because of this we were then flanked from behind.

[SirWulf]

Both I suppose, as you both were in it doing it (I assume). I got the screenshots from a Off Topic thread, I was not online at the moment that this happened.

Are you saying you were not involved in either case?

[Kahjo]

Both I suppose, as you both were in it doing it (I assume). I got the screenshots from a Off Topic thread, I was not online at the moment that this happened.

Are you saying you were not involved in either case?

Yes, I was not involved in them ingame, I made this report as I saw the screenshots and they show rulebreakage and administrative abuse, so I decided to report it, because I think that needs to be done.

[Cole]

@“PaulB”, it hardly gave an advantage as you were still able to kill us when inside the VTOL, in fact we were more prone to death or injury than if we was in a ground vehicle. Also as we were in Teamspeak at the time BlackDog was stating that if you shot at us enough he would’ve temporarily grounded the aircraft as you would’ve “disabled” it.

[PaulB]

My self alone used 180 rounds on the aircraft before there was even a shootout between the two groups, the pilot took no damage and could not be stopped, rather than just flying away from us Blackdog decided to do a 180 turn and come straight into the firefight.
You say that "Blackdog was stating that if you shot at us enough he would've temporarily grounded the aircraft as you would've disabled it." from a previous reply of yours you state that you were dropped to 54HP before you even landed compared to the size of the thing and the fact that we were aiming at the front of the VTOL thinking we could of killed the pilot shows the amount of bullets put in your direction.

As I mentioned above, Blackdog then used the VTOL in order to transport a few people across the ravine in order to flank us, we stopped other flanks by people in the government by simply shooting their cars which would either kill them or force them to stop and take cover behind their cars, with Blackdog's VTOL this simply could not be done, he took a direct path over the ravine in which a car could not do and dropped people in a wooded area leading us to now take a fight on both sides rather than taking the fight from the people chasing us down the hill.

[Daley]

Alright, first off, if the vehicle is entirely possible, or realistic is irrelevant. LimeLight has always had RP's that stretched reality, it's semi-serious, and as long as it is not absolutely ridiculous, I think things like that for events, or special types of RP are fine as long as the are limited. The VTOL is not realistic, it has office chairs at the side of the guns, and it would not function with current day technology, but there have been things on LimeLight like this, and it is "possible" - I do not see any issue with the design or concept of the vehicle, we make certain types of RP and sometimes they take it into a fictional direction which is fine within reason.

Moving on from that point, staff can give permission for players to make custom vehicles, and for them to be used, they do not need permissions their-self.

In the past I have made use of custom vehicles for certain types of RP. But I made sure they did not actually effect it, and in this case it's clear it gave them a clear benefit. Using vehicles like this for Passive RP, like a fly around tour, news report, or for a server wide event would be fair enough, but in this case the vehicle benefited one party, and put another at a disadvantage.

Originally I did not see an issue with it, until I was made aware of the fact that it was used to deploy SWAT units, cut off other players, and by-pass landscape features for paramedics to revive police men faster. - While I see some RP value and enjoyment for players utilizing this as paramedics, I think it is not acceptable to be utilized to give a straight up advantage, allowing for quicker, easier, and less predictable deployment of troops. Especially not in a combat scenario.

Also the cockpit is completely bulletproof, which is an issue when you are deploying troops in the middle of a combat situation.

[goigle]

TW: I was not involved with this situation, but I do remember a past one with this same craft (unless he has another one).

I don't remember the exact details as to why we were raiding (this was back on the US Rockford server I believe) but I want to say the president ordered us to raid (might have had something to do with illegals flights).

Police got a warrant and made entry into the FUMUKU base (this was at the yellow warehouse in industrial) only for them to fly away. We were within /me range and there was no roleplay about activating the aircraft and letting the engines warm up or anything like that - just instant on and gone.

Wasn't a big deal at the time and they were not using it for raids at the time but since this happened I think it's worth a mention

[Enzyme]

Reviewed and concluded.

I'll be referencing a situation that is not mentioned in the original post, a situation that took place by the ravines.

The VTOL was controlled by Blackdog and was carrying several armed SWAT officers who came under fire and the armed officers were deployed shortly after the shooting started. Many bullets were put into the VTOL but without any effect.
The "baddies" of this situation were attempting to flee the scene after some time, and the VTOL landed to pick up two armed officers. The VTOL took off and flew over the ravines to intercept the "baddies" to deploy armed officers to deny the "baddies" an exit from the scene. The "baddies" were halted as a result of the SWAT VTOL interception, and they were killed.

The use of the VTOL allowed the SWAT to intercept the "baddies" in such a way that would not be possible would it not be for the VTOL made with Admin Tools, as the VTOL flew straight over the ravines and any other objects that would otherwise have hindered the SWAT team from intercepting as they did. 

---

There are a few issues with the VTOL:

- The VTOL is able to cross more-or-less any terrain such as cliffs, ravines, trees and etc.
- The cockpit being bulletproof. 
- The VTOL cannot be damaged (exception being molotov), and any damage simulated (by roleplay) would depend on the pilot to make an assessment on how much damage the VTOL had taken, and how it should behave after taking X amount of damage. In the situation that took place, the VTOL took more than enough damage to severely reduce it's capabilities yet there was no consequence to it taking the amount of fire that it did. 

A section in the Admin Guidelines states that staff-members cannot use administrative tools to give oneself or someone else an unfair advantage over others. It is my assessment that the use of the administrative tools that was used to make and use the VTOL was used in such a way that an unfair advantage was given due to the nature of the VTOL. 

Admin Guidelines will be updated to include that Custom vehicles made with Administrative tools cannot be used in aggressive situations unless the opposing team of the conflict agrees to its use to benefit roleplay, or if the vehicle is approved by HR.

---

While I have no issues with a vehicle like the VTOL is used to enhance roleplays or events, the use has to be restricted to passive situations to prevent the Admins from having "toys" that give them an advantage they otherwise wouldn't have in an aggressive situation. The VTOL can only be used in an aggressive situation if the other "team" of the conflict agrees to its use to benefit roleplay. While some might feel that this restricts roleplay, this is done to keep everything as fair as possible and to prevent a massive difference between Staff-members and Players in situations like the one that took place. 


The Verdict: 

The VTOL can be used for passiveRPs to improve roleplay, but it cannot be used for aggressive situations as it offers an advantage that I consider unfair against others who do not have the same tools and powers unless the opposing team of the conflict agrees to its use to benefit roleplay. The VTOL was used in a way that no other vehicle ingame has any chance of replicating and it granted the Government an unfair advantage against the opposing team. I do not wish for the outcome of a firefight to depend on whether or not a staff-member takes part and uses the tools given. 

While I love how creative people are with tools and how creations can add to roleplays, I have to draw a line in the sand. This case helped highlight an issue with admin custom-built vehicles, and I've decided to regulate them to only passiveRP or if both sides of a conflict agrees to its use. 



To those who have posted on this thread:
I ask that you only post on Staff Reports if you are involved directly in the situation. If there's anything you want the reviewing HR team to know about the situation that you are not involved in, then send @Overlewd or myself a forumPM. 

Quoting the Report Instructions:

You may only comment in staff reports only if you are the accusing player or a witness/someone who is directly involved in the situation being reported. Members of staff may comment on the staff report with input and opinions if they see fit, however only Super Administrators and Owner can conclude Staff Reports (exception if the post is a troll post, breaks forum rules/doesn’t follow these guidelines).

If you fail to follow these rules then you will be given a warning on the forum. If you continue to ignore these warnings then you'll lose your ability to post on the forum.