[Project]

Yet we only accept the best limelight has to offer? Most of the time teachers are being looked upon as better than the average player because of their capabilities even before they are even promoted.

---

This is the point, Teachers being looked upon 'better than the average player'.

Yet we are saying that being in the team page will change this.
Limelight as a community has a bunch players considered better than average, some are not in any project/team and are just playing, staff consists of them and the teacher team only accepts people that are at that level. How do you expect people to feel equal when you got a team which consists of the best limelight has to offer?

Us in a wall won't make a difference on how players are looking at us and removing power to get them there is fundamentally flawed as even before being teachers they are considered better than average.

[PaulB]

Yet we only accept the best limelight has to offer? Most of the time teachers are being looked upon as better than the average player because of their capabilities even before they are even promoted.

---

This is the point, Teachers being looked upon 'better than the average player'.

Yet we are saying that being in the team page will change this.
Limelight as a community has a bunch players considered better than average, some are not in any project/team and are just playing, staff consists of them and the teacher team only accepts people that are at that level. How do you expect people to feel equal when you got a team which consists of the best limelight has to offer?

Us in a wall won't make a difference on how players are looking at us and removing power to get them there is fundamentally flawed as even before being teachers they are considered better than average.

Because the fact is Teachers are the SAME as the average player, they do not have anything more special about them, giving them a spot on the Team page will not only just make them feel 'better than the average player' more but to other people who see them on this page that these Teachers have more power/more authority than just the regular player.

[Project]

Yet we only accept the best limelight has to offer? Most of the time teachers are being looked upon as better than the average player because of their capabilities even before they are even promoted.

---

This is the point, Teachers being looked upon 'better than the average player'.

Yet we are saying that being in the team page will change this.
Limelight as a community has a bunch players considered better than average, some are not in any project/team and are just playing, staff consists of them and the teacher team only accepts people that are at that level. How do you expect people to feel equal when you got a team which consists of the best limelight has to offer?

Us in a wall won't make a difference on how players are looking at us and removing power to get them there is fundamentally flawed as even before being teachers they are considered better than average.

Because the fact is Teachers are the SAME as the average player, they do not have anything more special about them, giving them a spot on the Team page will not only just make them feel 'better than the average player' more but to other people who see them on this page that these Teachers have more power/more authority than just the regular player.

You are missing my point.

(Some) People who are now admins where once teachers, why did they got handpicked? Because they are better than average. They have more knowledge than average, they have broken less rules than average, they are more liked than average. They were better than average.

Teacher program has a high standard on who gets in and who doesn't most of the people ARE better than average to get noticed and accepted.

The staff itself has chosen to pick players who tend to be seen as better than average, they want people who are active, helpful, have very few or no bans/blacklists, attitude etc, things an average player will most probably missing one or two of this.

[PaulB]

Yet we only accept the best limelight has to offer? Most of the time teachers are being looked upon as better than the average player because of their capabilities even before they are even promoted.

---

This is the point, Teachers being looked upon 'better than the average player'.

Yet we are saying that being in the team page will change this.
Limelight as a community has a bunch players considered better than average, some are not in any project/team and are just playing, staff consists of them and the teacher team only accepts people that are at that level. How do you expect people to feel equal when you got a team which consists of the best limelight has to offer?

Us in a wall won't make a difference on how players are looking at us and removing power to get them there is fundamentally flawed as even before being teachers they are considered better than average.

Because the fact is Teachers are the SAME as the average player, they do not have anything more special about them, giving them a spot on the Team page will not only just make them feel 'better than the average player' more but to other people who see them on this page that these Teachers have more power/more authority than just the regular player.

You are missing my point.

(Some) People who are now admins where once teachers, why did they got handpicked? Because they are better than average. They have more knowledge than average, they have broken less rules than average, they are more liked than average. They were better than average.

Teacher program has a high standard on who gets in and who doesn't most of the people ARE better than average to get noticed and accepted.

The staff itself has chosen to pick players who tend to be seen as better than average, they want people who are active, helpful, have very few or no bans/blacklists, attitude etc, things an average player will most probably missing one or two of this.

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying.
Teaching is a voluntary role, as you said yourself you see your self as 'Better than the average', and that players think you are 'Better than the average', the fact you are saying that makes me question the reason you are teaching to be known as this 'Better than the average' or to genuinely help players either way you do not need a rank which says 'I am better than the average' if that's what you are going for.

[Project]

This is the point, Teachers being looked upon 'better than the average player'.

Yet we are saying that being in the team page will change this.
Limelight as a community has a bunch players considered better than average, some are not in any project/team and are just playing, staff consists of them and the teacher team only accepts people that are at that level. How do you expect people to feel equal when you got a team which consists of the best limelight has to offer?

Us in a wall won't make a difference on how players are looking at us and removing power to get them there is fundamentally flawed as even before being teachers they are considered better than average.

Because the fact is Teachers are the SAME as the average player, they do not have anything more special about them, giving them a spot on the Team page will not only just make them feel 'better than the average player' more but to other people who see them on this page that these Teachers have more power/more authority than just the regular player.

You are missing my point.

(Some) People who are now admins where once teachers, why did they got handpicked? Because they are better than average. They have more knowledge than average, they have broken less rules than average, they are more liked than average. They were better than average.

Teacher program has a high standard on who gets in and who doesn't most of the people ARE better than average to get noticed and accepted.

The staff itself has chosen to pick players who tend to be seen as better than average, they want people who are active, helpful, have very few or no bans/blacklists, attitude etc, things an average player will most probably missing one or two of this.

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying.
Teaching is a voluntary role, as you said yourself you see your self as 'Better than the average', and that players think you are 'Better than the average', the fact you are saying that makes me question the reason you are teaching to be known as this 'Better than the average' or to genuinely help players either way you do not need a rank which says 'I am better than the average' if that's what you are going for.

It is a voluntary role, anyone can apply. I am trying to explain to you that to get accepted you are usually considered better than average, because that is the standard that the staff has picked as a line for who gets in and who doesnt. As I said previously, they TEND to accept such people. I am not saying I am better than average. I became a teacher because I have the knowledge, because when someone has a question, teachers are supposed to have the answer to that.

Where I am trying to get to is, from what I have seen in the applications, the requirement you need to meet is higher than the average person and that is logical else anyone would meet said points and be able to join the team. Thats why is someone seen as better than usual. If the requirement was low wouldn't people get in the program easier?

Again it is not bad to be looked upon as better because usually that is what happens to a rolemodel, they are looked upon. It is bad if someone thinks he is the best of em all, because there is always someone better than you somewhere.

[PaulB]

- SNIP -

It is a voluntary role, anyone can apply. I am trying to explain to you that to get accepted you are usually considered better than average, because that is the standard that the staff has picked as a line for who gets in and who doesnt. As I said previously, they TEND to accept such people. I am not saying I am better than average. I became a teacher because I have the knowledge, because when someone has a question, teachers are supposed to have the answer to that.

Where I am trying to get to is, from what I have seen in the applications, the requirement you need to meet is higher than the average person and that is logical else anyone would meet said points and be able to join the team. Thats why is someone seen as better than usual. If the requirement was low wouldn't people get in the program easier?

Again it is not bad to be looked upon as better because usually that is what happens to a rolemodel, they are looked upon. It is bad if someone thinks he is the best of em all, because there is always someone better than you somewhere.

You've pretty much summed up what Preditor early on was saying, 

Thing is, you'll find that if Teachers are put above donators you'll find out quicker than ever that those traits you speak of will disappear. Trust me.

You are doing exactly this at the moment, you are putting Teachers above donators/members of the community solely because they share their knowledge to users, especially when they had access to the give REP command where teachers would give REP's to the same people over and over (their friend group), to each other and at one point I believe over 30 REP was given in one single day (Not to mention the amount of arselicking was done to Teachers in that month purely because they were valued as staff). 

This is exactly why staff are reluctant to give out REP and strive for the best quality of RP because they were simply handed out like candy. Teachers are the same as anyone else in the community, normally they have vast amount of hours (400+) so they have knowledge of the game-mode, and are willing to help people. Yes you give up your time to help players of the server but at the same time you are already on the server (If your helping in-game), and I value the Teachers who go out of their way on the forums to provide technical advice such as fixing player's crashes however a lot of the threads will just involve tagging staff multiple times within the span of 4 hours which I see absolutely pointless. 

And let's not forget about this thread (here) where a Teacher is asked a question but simply laughs it off and keeps the knowledge to him-self.

Now that's me off to bed.

[Barkles]

IMO they're not staff but they are a "team" so they should be on the team page just under maybe "non administrative personnel" something

[Project]

- SNIP -

It is a voluntary role, anyone can apply. I am trying to explain to you that to get accepted you are usually considered better than average, because that is the standard that the staff has picked as a line for who gets in and who doesnt. As I said previously, they TEND to accept such people. I am not saying I am better than average. I became a teacher because I have the knowledge, because when someone has a question, teachers are supposed to have the answer to that.

Where I am trying to get to is, from what I have seen in the applications, the requirement you need to meet is higher than the average person and that is logical else anyone would meet said points and be able to join the team. Thats why is someone seen as better than usual. If the requirement was low wouldn't people get in the program easier?

Again it is not bad to be looked upon as better because usually that is what happens to a rolemodel, they are looked upon. It is bad if someone thinks he is the best of em all, because there is always someone better than you somewhere.

You've pretty much summed up what Preditor early on was saying, 

Thing is, you'll find that if Teachers are put above donators you'll find out quicker than ever that those traits you speak of will disappear. Trust me.

You are doing exactly this at the moment, you are putting Teachers above donators/members of the community solely because they share their knowledge to users, especially when they had access to the give REP command where teachers would give REP's to the same people over and over (their friend group), to each other and at one point I believe over 30 REP was given in one single day (Not to mention the amount of arselicking was done to Teachers in that month purely because they were valued as staff). 

I am not putting anyone anywhere and you not getting my point. The facts are there. The logic that teachers are entirely equal with the average player is flawed, I told you that to become a teacher, the bar is set too high thus the best tend to get in. This is a flaw in the logic, don't you get it? The teacher team is compiled of people being better than average. At the same time we are approachable because of our knowledge. If you see someone playing it smartypants, just inform a higher up.

We are supposed to be rolemodels as I said before, rolemodels are usually better than average.

This is exactly why staff are reluctant to give out REP and strive for the best quality of RP because they were simply handed out like candy. Teachers are the same as anyone else in the community, normally they have vast amount of hours (400+) so they have knowledge of the game-mode, and are willing to help people. Yes you give up your time to help players of the server but at the same time you are already on the server (If your helping in-game), and I value the Teachers who go out of their way on the forums to provide technical advice such as fixing player's crashes however a lot of the threads will just involve tagging staff multiple times within the span of 4 hours which I see absolutely pointless. 

Bottom line is, we are donators, we are just players, if people get on their high horse it is simple, drag them off it. Address any issues you believe exist in the teacher program to a liaison, we can then make changes internally. Also we could try re-implementing said powers with safeguards in place or give alternatives to them or just leave it as is.

And let's not forget about this thread (here) where a Teacher is asked a question but simply laughs it off and keeps the knowledge to him-self.

Report this to a higher up.

tl;dr
In my opinion, us in a wall wont make a difference on how we are looked upon because of how the team is structured. We could trial the change and if is causing issues revert back to how it is now.

[Soviethooves]

I have been apart of the teacher program, I've seen majority of the people in the teacher team. Personally, I don't think teachers should be on the team page. I have gotten this opinion from personal experience when being on the teacher team. When they're (not pointing fingers) given certain things/powers, they tend to act more like admins/staff. This is something I have seen happen multiple times.

See post above.

---

The teachers are not meant to be anything different to the average donators,

Yet we only accept the best limelight has to offer? Most of the time teachers are being looked upon as better than the average player because of their capabilities even before they are even promoted.
You are on level with Membership Holders, except that you get a private forum and a special rank. Who's to say an "average" member can't be better than you?

---

personally, adding them to the team page would draw a rather large line between the player and the teacher ranks.

How exactly? Because we are acknowledged that we are a team that is voluntarily assisting limelight?
You are more of a group than what I would call a team. Anyone can "volunteer" their time to assist Limelight by simply helping others or asking if anyone needs assistance.

---

Now, I've noticed many people mention contributors. Now, I was the person who got them added to the team page.The contributors do a lot of additions to the gamemode/servers.

It was brought up at the start, like teachers, they volunteer their skills for free, much like I volunteer using my time to teach players or organize events. Contributors are already credited on the F1 menu about their work and we are not talking about removing them but either putting us next to them or create a page where all volunteer team are shown.
They belong on the Team Page IMO as they provide more than just assistance with questions IG. They assist with updates, media, bug fixing, etc. Basically they are the volunteers that push development and LL forward with less of a focus on hard deadlines and more of what they can do to assist LL's problems or content when possible.

---

I am not saying the teachers do not do stuff, but they do not do as much as the contributors. Helping people is not as hard as something such as coding.

Correct me if wrong but no one said we are doing something more difficult, I will say though we are doing something as important as coding updates. By giving new players a helping hand we give them a bigger chance of staying on LL, while taking a call the staff team would ignore and actually investing time in it.
I'm not going to sugar coat it, you do not do something that is as important as coding updates or being a Contributor in general. You help people with questions and attempt to RP better to be an example. You don't assist in anything suggested above. Anyone that has great RP skills and knowledge of our rules can do what you can do. Sorry to be blunt.

[Project]

I have been apart of the teacher program, I've seen majority of the people in the teacher team. Personally, I don't think teachers should be on the team page. I have gotten this opinion from personal experience when being on the teacher team. When they're (not pointing fingers) given certain things/powers, they tend to act more like admins/staff. This is something I have seen happen multiple times.

See post above.

---

The teachers are not meant to be anything different to the average donators,

Yet we only accept the best limelight has to offer? Most of the time teachers are being looked upon as better than the average player because of their capabilities even before they are even promoted.
You are on level with Membership Holders, except that you get a private forum and a special rank. Who's to say an "average" member can't be better than you?
Nobody said otherwise, check my posts above. A player with 1 hour can be better than anyone for all I know and I would be looking up to him. Still ignoring my point that people in the membership rank are split in multiple categories according to their traits and skills and one is looking upon other.

---

personally, adding them to the team page would draw a rather large line between the player and the teacher ranks.

How exactly? Because we are acknowledged that we are a team that is voluntarily assisting limelight?
You are more of a group than what I would call a team. Anyone can "volunteer" their time to assist Limelight by simply helping others or asking if anyone needs assistance.
Yet again that does not prove his point.

---

Now, I've noticed many people mention contributors. Now, I was the person who got them added to the team page.The contributors do a lot of additions to the gamemode/servers.

It was brought up at the start, like teachers, they volunteer their skills for free, much like I volunteer using my time to teach players or organize events. Contributors are already credited on the F1 menu about their work and we are not talking about removing them but either putting us next to them or create a page where all volunteer team are shown.
They belong on the Team Page IMO as they provide more than just assistance with questions IG. They assist with updates, media, bug fixing, etc. Basically they are the volunteers that push development and LL forward with less of a focus on hard deadlines and more of what they can do to assist LL's problems or content when possible.
They are volunteers after all and they are still credited on F1, while we are just in a post somewhere.

---

I am not saying the teachers do not do stuff, but they do not do as much as the contributors. Helping people is not as hard as something such as coding.

Correct me if wrong but no one said we are doing something more difficult, I will say though we are doing something as important as coding updates. By giving new players a helping hand we give them a bigger chance of staying on LL, while taking a call the staff team would ignore and actually investing time in it.
I'm not going to sugar coat it, you do not do something that is as important as coding updates or being a Contributor in general. You help people with questions and attempt to RP better to be an example. You don't assist in anything suggested above. Anyone that has great RP skills and knowledge of our rules can do what you can do. Sorry to be blunt.

How exactly aren't teachers helping retain players when their help calls would have been ignored over another @ call. We are all about showing the best face of limelight in my opinion, which is important when you want to retain said players. If you think teachers are so useless why are not just removing the rank all together?

It comes down to the fact we are not doing enough to be in the wall but at the same time you don't trust us enough to do more.

I love doing what I do and I will keep doing it been without teacher rank. It is up to you to either trust us and give us more responsibilities or simply leave this as is in a state of distrust.

[Soviethooves]

I honestly don't believe we need Teachers. We shouldn't have a group dedicated to being "better than the average player" from their RP skills and knowledge of rules from when they made an application, as all it does is cause players to feel like they are automatically worse than Teachers, and to some, the title can go over their heads and make them feel like they are automatically better. Instead of promoting a group to help others, we should be encouraging all players to help each other.

[Preditor]

I've already stated my point but I should refer to it again; it's a tough way to point it out but yes, contributors do more work than teachers, and harder work at that.

And I don't mean to sound cynical, but yes i would not trust certain teachers to do more. They've proven time and time again that they can't.

Teachers are players, and should stay players. Nothing more.

[Preditor]

I honestly don't believe we need Teachers. We shouldn't have a group dedicated to being "better than the average player" from their RP skills and knowledge of rules from when they made an application, as all it does is cause players to feel like they are automatically worse than Teachers, and to some, the title can go over their heads and make them feel like they are automatically better. Instead of promoting a group to help others, we should be encouraging all players to help each other.

+Support.

Thing is they're not better than the average player. They should be treated exactly the same, and I can say myself that in my time I have banned and punished teachers before, one for CDMing over 6 people (including me).

If you ask me that is not "above" average.

[Hungames]

#NoMoreTeachers

Spread it.

[thefaketaco]

Last time I checked contributors weren't the subject of this discussion, so let's keep it that way.

Why? It's relevant to the issue,

if teachers aren't on the team page, why are contributors when neither were or are part of the staff team?

Contributors do way more work lmao.