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Poll: Should teachers be listed on the team page?
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Should teachers be listed on team page?
ForceGhost
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#76
Feb 23, 2017, 09:57 PM
(Feb 23, 2017, 09:23 PM)Innovative Wrote: Last time I checked contributors weren't the subject of this discussion, so let's keep it that way.

Why? It's relevant to the issue,

if teachers aren't on the team page, why are contributors when neither were or are part of the staff team?
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#77
Feb 23, 2017, 10:09 PM
(Feb 23, 2017, 10:21 AM)Wishy Wooshy Wrote: Y'know, the tab is literally called "Team". So while yes teachers might not do as much works as say, contributors or developers they are still part of the team! They do a role within Limelight Gaming, they represent the community on a daily basis on the Server and on the Forums.

So the argument "They don't do enough" or "It will make them powermad" is insane. And maybe the fact they even bothered to apply should be of some recognition because they took the initiative and decided to make a difference in the community. Now I know some of you said that technically anyone could do it. but the point is; They don't.

Whether you like it or not Teachers are part of the Limelight team, so taking a 2 dimensional look at everything as most people here do is probably the reason people have issues with the Staff team in the first place.

Everyone has a role within the community. This is invalid, because donators also represent the community, and so do regular players. Hell, they ARE the community you know. Being a teacher is not staff, and it is nothing special that they would rank themselves above a donator because they are not anything more than a donator. They are players just like you.

Powermad is not insane. Not at all. I understand where people think that the concept is harmless, and that it doesn't mean anything. However as someone who has been backstage, more so than others for sure. I can tell you that there's a lot more that can go on with these issues than you'd believe. So yes, it actually is an issue and it has been in the past.
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#78
Feb 23, 2017, 10:31 PM
Please see my previous post regarding Contributors and why they're not relevant in this discussion. Please stay on topic, as this discussion is regarding Teachers.
Sincerely, Enzyme
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#79
Feb 23, 2017, 10:34 PM
This entire debacle has devolved into a fight over who deserves a sticker or not.
I think everyone deserves recognition while I also have come to agree that having
the teachers on the team page is not the way to go, the alternatives Faustie presented
are appealing imo.

Having a Hall Of Fame and just listing people worth giving recognition if they did their
part to help LL in some way then just put them there and have a team page with all
current active duty admins/mods/devs
1 When the heavens above did not exist,
2 And earth beneath had not come into being —
3 There was Apsû, the first in order, their begetter,
4 And demiurge Tia-mat, who gave birth to them all;
5 They had mingled their waters together
6 Before meadow-land had coalesced and reed-bed was to he found —
7 When not one of the gods had been formed
8 Or had come into being, when no destinies had been decreed,
9 The gods were created within them:
10 Lah(mu and Lah(amu were formed and came into being.
11 While they grew and increased in stature
12 Anšar and Kišar, who excelled them, were created.
13 They prolonged their days, they multiplied their years.
14 Anu, their son, could rival his fathers.
15 Anu, the son, equalled Anšar,
16 And Anu begat Nudimmud, his own equal.
17 Nudimmud was the champion among his fathers:
18 Profoundly discerning, wise, of robust strength;
19 Very much stronger than his father's begetter, Anšar
20 He had no rival among the gods, his brothers.
21 The divine brothers came together,
22 Their clamour got loud, throwing Tia-mat into a turmoil.
23 They jarred the nerves of Tia-mat,
24 And by their dancing they spread alarm in Anduruna.
25 Apsû did not diminish their clamour,
26 And Tia-mat was silent when confronted with them.
27 Their conduct was displeasing to her,
28 Yet though their behaviour was not good, she wished to spare them.
29 Thereupon Apsû, the begetter of the great gods,
30 Called Mummu, his vizier, and addressed him,
31 "Vizier Mummu, who gratifies my pleasure,
32 Come, let us go to Tia-mat!"
33 They went and sat, facing Tia-mat,
34 As they conferred about the gods, their sons.
35 Apsû opened his mouth
36 And addressed Tia-mat
37 "Their behaviour has become displeasing to me
38 And I cannot rest in the day-time or sleep at night.
39 I will destroy and break up their way of life
40 That silence may reign and we may sleep."
41 When Tia-mat heard this
42 She raged and cried out to her spouse,
43 She cried in distress, fuming within herself,
44 She grieved over the (plotted) evil,
45 "How can we destroy what we have given birth to?
46 Though their behaviour causes distress, let us tighten discipline graciously."
47 Mummu spoke up with counsel for Apsû—
48 (As from) a rebellious vizier was the counsel of his Mummu—
49 "Destroy, my father, that lawless way of life,
50 That you may rest in the day-time and sleep by night!"
51 Apsû was pleased with him, his face beamed
52 Because he had plotted evil against the gods, his sons.
53 Mummu put his arms around Apsû's neck,
54 He sat on his knees kissing him.
55 What they plotted in their gathering
56 Was reported to the gods, their sons.
57 The gods heard it and were frantic.
58 They were overcome with silence and sat quietly.
59 Ea, who excels in knowledge, the skilled and learned,
60 Ea, who knows everything, perceived their tricks.
61 He fashioned it and made it to be all-embracing,
62 He executed it skilfully as supreme—his pure incantation.
63 He recited it and set it on the waters,
64 He poured sleep upon him as he was slumbering deeply.
65 He put Apsû to slumber as he poured out sleep,
66 And Mummu, the counsellor, was breathless with agitation.
67 He split (Apsû's) sinews, ripped off his crown,
68 Carried away his aura and put it on himself.
69 He bound Apsû and killed him;
70 Mummu he confined and handled roughly.
71 He set his dwelling upon Apsû,
72 And laid hold on Mummu, keeping the nose-rope in his hand.
73 After Ea had bound and slain his enemies,
74 Had achieved victory over his foes,
75 He rested quietly in his chamber,
76 He called it Apsû, whose shrines he appointed.
77 Then he founded his living-quarters within it,
78 And Ea and Damkina, his wife, sat in splendour.
79 In the chamber of the destinies, the room of the archetypes,
80 The wisest of the wise, the sage of the gods, Be-l was conceived.
81 In Apsû was Marduk born,
82 In pure Apsû was Marduk born.
83 Ea his father begat him,
84 Damkina his mother bore him.
85 He sucked the breasts of goddesses,
86 A nurse reared him and filled him with terror.
87 His figure was well developed, the glance of his eyes was dazzling,
88 His growth was manly, he was mighty from the beginning.
89 Anu, his father's begetter, saw him,
90 He exulted and smiled; his heart filled with joy.
91 Anu rendered him perfect: his divinity was remarkable,
92 And he became very lofty, excelling them in his attributes.
93 His members were incomprehensibly wonderful,
94 Incapable of being grasped with the mind, hard even to look on.
95 Four were his eyes, four his ears,
96 Flame shot forth as he moved his lips.
97 His four ears grew large,
93 And his eyes likewise took in everything.
99 His figure was lofty and superior in comparison with the gods,
100 His limbs were surpassing, his nature was superior.
101 'Mari-utu, Mari-utu,
102 The Son, the Sun-god, the Sun-god of the gods.'
103 He was clothed with the aura of the Ten Gods, so exalted was his strength,
104 The Fifty Dreads were loaded upon him.
105 Anu formed and gave birth to the four winds,
106 He delivered them to him, "My son, let them whirl!"
107 He formed dust and set a hurricane to drive it,
108 He made a wave to bring consternation on Tia-mat.
109 Tia-mat was confounded; day and night she was frantic.
110 The gods took no rest, they . . . . . . .
111 In their minds they plotted evil,
112 And addressed their mother Tia-mat,
113 "When Apsû, your spouse, was killed,
114 You did not go at his side, but sat quietly.
115 The four dreadful winds have been fashioned
116 To throw you into confusion, and we cannot sleep.
117 You gave no thought to Apsû, your spouse,
113 Nor to Mummu, who is a prisoner. Now you sit alone.
119 Henceforth you will be in frantic consternation!
120 And as for us, who cannot rest, you do not love us!
121 Consider our burden, our eyes are hollow.
122 Break the immovable yoke that we may sleep.
123 Make battle, avenge them!
124 [ . . ] . . . . reduce to nothingness!
125 Tia-mat heard, the speech pleased her,
126 (She said,) "Let us make demons, [as you] have advised."
127 The gods assembled within her.
128 They conceived [evil] against the gods their begetters.
129 They . . . . . and took the side of Tia-mat,
130 Fiercely plotting, unresting by night and day,
131 Lusting for battle, raging, storming,
132 They set up a host to bring about conflict.
133 Mother H(ubur, who forms everything,
134 Supplied irresistible weapons, and gave birth to giant serpents.
135 They had sharp teeth, they were merciless . . . .
136 With poison instead of blood she filled their bodies.
137 She clothed the fearful monsters with dread,
138 She loaded them with an aura and made them godlike.
139 (She said,) "Let their onlooker feebly perish,
140 May they constantly leap forward and never retire."
141 She created the Hydra, the Dragon, the Hairy Hero
142 The Great Demon, the Savage Dog, and the Scorpion-man,
143 Fierce demons, the Fish-man, and the Bull-man,
144 Carriers of merciless weapons, fearless in the face of battle.
145 Her commands were tremendous, not to be resisted.
146 Altogether she made eleven of that kind.
147 Among the gods, her sons, whom she constituted her host,
148 She exalted Qingu, and magnified him among them.
149 The leadership of the army, the direction of the host,
150 The bearing of weapons, campaigning, the mobilization of conflict,
151 The chief executive power of battle, supreme command,
152 She entrusted to him and set him on a throne,
153 "I have cast the spell for you and exalted you in the host of the gods,
154 I have delivered to you the rule of all the gods.
155 You are indeed exalted, my spouse, you are renowned,
156 Let your commands prevail over all the Anunnaki."
157 She gave him the Tablet of Destinies and fastened it to his breast,
158 (Saying) "Your order may not be changed; let the utterance of your mouth be firm."
159 After Qingu was elevated and had acquired the power of Anuship,
160 He decreed the destinies for the gods, her sons:
161 "May the utterance of your mouths subdue the fire-god,
162 May your poison by its accumulation put down aggression."
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#80
Feb 23, 2017, 10:38 PM
Nah people just went off topic completely and started pointing fingers elsewhere when they had nothing else to argue.
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#81
Feb 23, 2017, 10:46 PM
-sigh-

Faustie proposed a nice idea. It's the best of both worlds. for both sides of the table.

How about we just have the tabs on the top bar, one leads to the staff page, so is renamed from "Team" to "Staff".

We have another that leads to the HOF for Vets, I dunno if it'd be a redirect to a thread, a page, or perhaps a clone teampage.php file.

And we have a final tab that says something to indicate teachers/contributors, and same thing as above.

Thats just my thoughts.
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#82
Feb 23, 2017, 10:56 PM
(Feb 23, 2017, 09:23 PM)Innovative Wrote: Last time I checked contributors weren't the subject of this discussion, so let's keep it that way.

I don't see how it would affect anyone if contributors were moved from the team page and put in another with us (teachers), after all both ranks are volunteers. Your work is still acknowledged in a page in the forums with just an additional click away. Remember you are work is also permanently rewarded by your name being added on the F1 menu as a token of appreciation.

OT: In my opinion I would like if the team page was split into three. Staff team, Volunteers, Hall of fame.
It leaves everyone happy while still officially acknowledging teachers next to the rest of the teams.

As for the wider subject here, yes I could probably do the exact same thing I am doing right now without being a teacher, but by taking up this position I put myself up so people can receive help at anytime, even if I don't feel like it, the second a help call comes in we will be there to assist, at no point do we ignore a call. Yes, we volunteer and yes I have no "special" powers but we too spend hundreds upon hundreds of hours helping new people so admins have less to do and be able to assist you faster.

It is wrong to think because we have "not enough" power we shouldn't be acknowledged for what we do everyday. We have no powers to be approachable to players but at the same time we have a direct line to admins in order to correctly answer your calls without them having to go through them.

tl;dr
We are not staff(duh), that aside we still contribute our time and knowledge, I don't see how it would hurt limelight, if we had a place in the team page (which is not the staff page) even if that means splitting the page in three parts?

Side note;
If you want players to be (feel) equal to teachers then there is only one solution, terminate the teacher program. There is no inbetween on this. Any rank you may make, it will give off the feeling of inequality (ex. Why is the guy X rank and not me/you/us?). Coming to think of it, even the community is split into two unequal parts (Donors - Members), should we remove donor tag or give members a tag of their to feel "equal"? No.

You shouldn't aim to make teachers be equal to the rest. The community won't feel comfortable because we are equal in terms of power but because they know we are there to help them and answer all of their questions without making fun of them.

We are supposed to be the most approachable people in limelight and still give you an correct, double-checked answer. Approachable isn't achieved by being equal with others but having the qualities mentioned above.
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#83
Feb 23, 2017, 11:46 PM
(Feb 23, 2017, 10:56 PM)Project Wrote: Side note;
If you want players to be (feel) equal to teachers then there is only one solution, terminate the teacher program. There is no inbetween on this. Any rank you may make, it will give off the feeling of inequality (ex. Why is the guy X rank and not me/you/us?). Coming to think of it, even the community is split into two unequal parts (Donors - Members), should we remove donor tag or give members a tag of their to feel "equal"? No.

You shouldn't aim to make teachers be equal to the rest. The community won't feel comfortable because we are equal in terms of power but because they know we are there to help them and answer all of their questions without making fun of them.

We are supposed to be the most approachable people in limelight and still give you an correct, double-checked answer. Approachable isn't achieved by being equal with others but having the qualities mentioned above.

Thing is, you'll find that if Teachers are put above donators you'll find out quicker than ever that those traits you speak of will disappear. Trust me.
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#84
Feb 23, 2017, 11:52 PM
Most people are moaning about how they are not staff etc. This is more of the question of "Should they be on the Team page. Not staff. So eh
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#85
Feb 24, 2017, 12:16 AM
(Feb 23, 2017, 11:46 PM)Preditor Wrote:
(Feb 23, 2017, 10:56 PM)Project Wrote: Side note;
If you want players to be (feel) equal to teachers then there is only one solution, terminate the teacher program. There is no inbetween on this. Any rank you may make, it will give off the feeling of inequality (ex. Why is the guy X rank and not me/you/us?). Coming to think of it, even the community is split into two unequal parts (Donors - Members), should we remove donor tag or give members a tag of their to feel "equal"? No.

You shouldn't aim to make teachers be equal to the rest. The community won't feel comfortable because we are equal in terms of power but because they know we are there to help them and answer all of their questions without making fun of them.

We are supposed to be the most approachable people in limelight and still give you an correct, double-checked answer. Approachable isn't achieved by being equal with others but having the qualities mentioned above.

Thing is, you'll find that if Teachers are put above donators you'll find out quicker than ever that those traits you speak of will disappear. Trust me.

Mind expanding on this?
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#86
Feb 24, 2017, 12:46 AM
(Feb 24, 2017, 12:16 AM)Project Wrote:
(Feb 23, 2017, 11:46 PM)Preditor Wrote:
(Feb 23, 2017, 10:56 PM)Project Wrote: Side note;
If you want players to be (feel) equal to teachers then there is only one solution, terminate the teacher program. There is no inbetween on this. Any rank you may make, it will give off the feeling of inequality (ex. Why is the guy X rank and not me/you/us?). Coming to think of it, even the community is split into two unequal parts (Donors - Members), should we remove donor tag or give members a tag of their to feel "equal"? No.

You shouldn't aim to make teachers be equal to the rest. The community won't feel comfortable because we are equal in terms of power but because they know we are there to help them and answer all of their questions without making fun of them.

We are supposed to be the most approachable people in limelight and still give you an correct, double-checked answer. Approachable isn't achieved by being equal with others but having the qualities mentioned above.

Thing is, you'll find that if Teachers are put above donators you'll find out quicker than ever that those traits you speak of will disappear. Trust me.

Mind expanding on this?

For the sake of secrecy and not leaking my word is all I can give you, Sorry.
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#87
Feb 24, 2017, 12:59 AM
(Feb 24, 2017, 12:46 AM)Preditor Wrote:
(Feb 24, 2017, 12:16 AM)Project Wrote:
(Feb 23, 2017, 11:46 PM)Preditor Wrote:
(Feb 23, 2017, 10:56 PM)Project Wrote: Side note;
If you want players to be (feel) equal to teachers then there is only one solution, terminate the teacher program. There is no inbetween on this. Any rank you may make, it will give off the feeling of inequality (ex. Why is the guy X rank and not me/you/us?). Coming to think of it, even the community is split into two unequal parts (Donors - Members), should we remove donor tag or give members a tag of their to feel "equal"? No.

You shouldn't aim to make teachers be equal to the rest. The community won't feel comfortable because we are equal in terms of power but because they know we are there to help them and answer all of their questions without making fun of them.

We are supposed to be the most approachable people in limelight and still give you an correct, double-checked answer. Approachable isn't achieved by being equal with others but having the qualities mentioned above.

Thing is, you'll find that if Teachers are put above donators you'll find out quicker than ever that those traits you speak of will disappear. Trust me.

Mind expanding on this?

For the sake of secrecy and not leaking my word is all I can give you, Sorry.

Understood.

Thing is all teams will have bad apples, if someone cannot hold on the traits he showed to have when he was taken in the team he should simply be removed from it. 
Distrusting all of us (teachers) for something a few have done is two steps back. I believe the teacher team as of now can handle the powers the old one had once. You could always trial a change and if it is not working out then you just go back to what has been working all along. 
Straight out saying no and denying any attempt to see if issues are actually going to come up is not going to get us anywhere.
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#88
Feb 24, 2017, 12:59 AM
I have been apart of the teacher program, I've seen majority of the people in the teacher team. Personally, I don't think teachers should be on the team page. I have gotten this opinion from personal experience when being on the teacher team. When they're (not pointing fingers) given certain things/powers, they tend to act more like admins/staff. This is something I have seen happen multiple times.

The teachers are not meant to be anything different to the average donators, personally, adding them to the team page would draw a rather large line between the player and the teacher ranks. Now, I've noticed many people mention contributors. Now, I was the person who got them added to the team page. The contributors do a lot of additions to the gamemode/servers. I am not saying the teachers do not do stuff, but they do not do as much as the contributors. Helping people is not as hard as something such as coding.
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#89
Feb 24, 2017, 01:29 AM
(Feb 24, 2017, 12:59 AM)Brynn Wrote: I have been apart of the teacher program, I've seen majority of the people in the teacher team. Personally, I don't think teachers should be on the team page. I have gotten this opinion from personal experience when being on the teacher team. When they're (not pointing fingers) given certain things/powers, they tend to act more like admins/staff. This is something I have seen happen multiple times.

See post above.



The teachers are not meant to be anything different to the average donators,

Yet we only accept the best limelight has to offer? Most of the time teachers are being looked upon as better than the average player because of their capabilities even before they are even promoted.



personally, adding them to the team page would draw a rather large line between the player and the teacher ranks.

How exactly? Because we are acknowledged that we are a team that is voluntarily assisting limelight?



Now, I've noticed many people mention contributors. Now, I was the person who got them added to the team page.The contributors do a lot of additions to the gamemode/servers.

It was brought up at the start, like teachers, they volunteer their skills for free, much like I volunteer using my time to teach players or organize events. Contributors are already credited on the F1 menu about their work and we are not talking about removing them but either putting us next to them or create a page where all volunteer team are shown.



I am not saying the teachers do not do stuff, but they do not do as much as the contributors. Helping people is not as hard as something such as coding.

Correct me if wrong but no one said we are doing something more difficult, I will say though we are doing something as important as coding updates. By giving new players a helping hand we give them a bigger chance of staying on LL, while taking a call the staff team would ignore and actually investing time in it.
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#90
Feb 24, 2017, 01:33 AM
(Feb 24, 2017, 01:29 AM)Project Wrote: Yet we only accept the best limelight has to offer? Most of the time teachers are being looked upon as better than the average player because of their capabilities even before they are even promoted.


This is the point, Teachers being looked upon 'better than the average player'.

EDIT:
The fact they think they are better than the 'average player' is what is concerning.
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