[goigle]

Name of Player: [L²:RP][F.I] Wesley (@Wesley Lawrence)

SteamID: STEAM_0:0:51116464

Server: v4b1

Time: 40 minutes before this post

Summary: We were in an admin sit over a police situation at our base at MTL. Nightmare was conducting a sit with all 3 of the base owners, and two cops: Pilot and Wesley. Wesley is cop sgt.
Wesley approves a warrant during the sit.

Normally I would not say this is PR-worthy, but Nightmare also crashed and we were alone for a little bit and the police raided the base. The raid should not have happened because the situation around the raid was the reason we were in an admin sit so any raid should be 'paused,' or at least that's how it has been for most admin sits I have been in.


I don't know if this is a specific rule but this feels like a rule break done because he was frustrated that he was killed and I would like some staff opinions on this

Also, in case Wesley says he didn't know, I have had the same roleplay name since the server started and he has RPed with me before. Additionally, there were few people on the server and we were basically the only criminals so it's not like there are many other search warrants being requested (the warrant reason was "suspect inside property" and the suspect was sourlemon who was in the admin sit)

tl;dr Wesley approves warrant to search a base whose owners were all in an admin sit

Evidence:


Bambo & Nightmare can confirm the reason of the admin sit if that's necessary

[Limelight Gaming]

Thank you for your player-report, goigle.

It will take a while for it to be reviewed by our staff-members.
Meanwhile, the accused player and witnesses may reply to this report.

[Night]

I can confirm that Goigle, Wesley & Sourlemon (along with PilotC and Dan) were brought into a sit regarding a report which was filed in-game about a sit where Wesley and Pilot were fired upon whilst unarmed. I timed out due to an ongoing networking issue which I informed Wesley, PilotC and Sourlemon of around 5 minutes before, and I asked Bambo to take lead on the situation after briefing him.

Hopefully that provides a little context.

[Wesley Lawrence]

Hello Goigle,

Even though I understand your confusion about this and thus your Player Report, I have already explained you why I have accepted the warrant during the sit:

I did not read the name of the suspect (you) that was getting a warrant against them, until I figured out it was you. Just because we were in a sit doesn't mean other police officers aren't able to figure out your base was filled with contraband as that was the original 911 call that was reported in.

If I remember correctly, @D3ST was the person who requested the warrant and the person I asked to take photos of the contraband as proof that they did have valid reasons to enter the compound.
@PilotC can back me up on the fact that I told them NOT to destroy the contraband in regards to the admin sit we were in. I have said this two or three times over the government radio (thus probably why you didn't catch that).

Tl;Dr: Other law enforcement officers continued to check the compound during the administrator sit and found your contraband. I told them to take pictures as proof but not destroy the contraband. Warrant was probably placed on your name specifically as you were the owner of certain doors to/inside the compound.
Check logs for further.

[goigle]

Hello Goigle,

Even though I understand your confusion about this and thus your Player Report, I have already explained you why I have accepted the warrant during the sit:

I did not read the name of the suspect (you) that was getting a warrant against them, until I figured out it was you. Just because we were in a sit doesn't mean other police officers aren't able to figure out your base was filled with contraband as that was the original 911 call that was reported in.

I understand that was the original 911 call and I put that in my post. The problem was, we were in a sit that you started so anything regarding that 911 call (which started the entire situation) should have been stopped.

If I remember correctly, @D3ST was the person who requested the warrant and the person I asked to take photos of the contraband as proof that they did have valid reasons to enter the compound.
@PilotC can back me up on the fact that I told them NOT to destroy the contraband in regards to the admin sit we were in. I have said this two or three times over the government radio (thus probably why you didn't catch that).

I believe we shot D3ST, but I died quickly so I am not sure. What you should have said over government radio is not to raid and to wait for the sit to be over, I am pretty sure admins can see contra spawns in logs (and it's not like we can destroy contra while all 3 of us are in a sit anyway, so I am not sure why you were worried about proof).

You know Blackdog well because of FUMUKU and you must have seen him stop RP situations before to resolve admin situations. It's the best way to keep everything fair.

Tl;Dr: Other law enforcement officers continued to check the compound during the administrator sit and found your contraband. I told them to take pictures as proof but not destroy the contraband. Warrant was probably placed on your name specifically as you were the owner of certain doors to/inside the compound.
Check logs for further.

I know other LEOs did it, that's the point of my post and I did not deny that. What I am saying is this all happened from one 911 call and the entire police force (the 1 SWAT member, you, the normal officers: insert, pilot, d3st, CMR and maybe another) were already involved. It's not like they responded and showed up to the scene later, everyone was already there. The lone cop was just a survivor of the shootout.

[Wesley Lawrence]

I understand that was the original 911 call and I put that in my post. The problem was, we were in a sit that you started so anything regarding that 911 call (which started the entire situation) should have been stopped.

To which the warrant then read ''suspect inside property''. It did not specify whether or not it was about you or someone else so there was a good possibility of them chasing another suspect that had gone into YOUR property, hence the search warrant on YOUR name. I know I was in an administrator sit, but I was the only one that was able to accept or deny search/arrest warrants and wasn't going to make them wait for something that was unclear but in need of an immediate response.

In your earlier post you claimed Dan, Sourlemon and yourself to ''basically be the only criminals'' but you can't assume that when all of us are held up in a administrator sit. Hence why I didn't spend too much time on it, focussed on the sit and suspected them of just chasing around another suspect that had gone into the MTL.

Also note that I was not the one that started the administrator sit. I did click RDM report, but decided to cancel the report before filing it as I (honestly) couldn't bother with another shoot-out regarding C3 v. government and just wanted to get it over with quickly. That is until @PilotC made the report instead and I figured it was indeed a questionable killing of two unarmed (at least not wielding) officers that just wanted to talk and figure out what was going on.

I believe we shot D3ST, but I died quickly so I am not sure. What you should have said over government radio is not to raid and to wait for the sit to be over, I am pretty sure admins can see contra spawns in logs (and it's not like we can destroy contra while all 3 of us are in a sit anyway, so I am not sure why you were worried about proof).

I usually ''worry'' about getting proof regarding contraband. There's no reason not to do it, plus, this way they could still get something on the record after they couldn't find the suspect they were initially looking for. Again, a suspect that I didn't know was you specifically at first. Just because you claim we've played (like two or three times) before, it doesn't mean I immediately remember your in-character name and will continue to do so.

You know Blackdog well because of FUMUKU and you must have seen him stop RP situations before to resolve admin situations. It's the best way to keep everything fair.

Not that BlackDog has anything to do with the situation or my view on administrator sits, BlackDog mostly holds the sit at location of incident. That way, anyone that would want to interfere with it know there's an adminstrator sit going on and usually leaves it alone. We, however, were brought up to a roof. Out of sight of anyone else and the officers were left down there without a clue. And without a clue also goes for me, I don't know what officers get into on the ground or if they get into another chase with someone that ultimately finds a hiding spot on a compound that you own.

I know other LEOs did it, that's the point of my post and I did not deny that. What I am saying is this all happened from one 911 call and the entire police force (the 1 SWAT member, you, the normal officers: insert, pilot, d3st, CMR and maybe another) were already involved. It's not like they responded and showed up to the scene later, everyone was already there. The lone cop was just a survivor of the shootout.

Good, so you must also understand that from my point of view, all I get is a search warrant (later to be identified on you) for reason ''suspect inside property''. It doesn't clarify if they mean you, Dan, Sourlemon or someone else they could have been chasing and ran onto your property to hide out there. I couldn't know from up on the roof, nor did I have the time to focus on that as there was an on-going administrator sit.

Honestly, I think this has all been one big misunderstanding from both parties involved. Something that could have been figured out by speaking to one another in-game (which I later on did about the warrant).

Besides that, none of your assets have been destroyed as I did give them the order to NOT touch or dismantle your contraband (in regards to the administrator sit we were in) after it became clear they couldn't find the suspect but instead, found your contraband.

[goigle]

In your earlier post you claimed Dan, Sourlemon and yourself to ''basically be the only criminals'' but you can't assume that when all of us are held up in a administrator sit. Hence why I didn't spend too much time on it, focussed on the sit and suspected them of just chasing around another suspect that had gone into the MTL.

There's nothing to assume. There were maybe 12 players are on the server. 6 were cops, 3 were my group, and 2 were staff (one crashed). No one had a criminal job except for street racer. We were literally basically the only criminals.

Also note that I was not the one that started the administrator sit. I did click RDM report, but decided to cancel the report before filing it as I (honestly) couldn't bother with another shoot-out regarding C3 v. government and just wanted to get it over with quickly. That is until @PilotC made the report instead and I figured it was indeed a questionable killing of two unarmed (at least not wielding) officers that just wanted to talk and figure out what was going on.

That's my bad, I wasn't involved for the first part and figured you made it

I usually ''worry'' about getting proof regarding contraband. There's no reason not to do it, plus, this way they could still get something on the record after they couldn't find the suspect they were initially looking for. Again, a suspect that I didn't know was you specifically at first. Just because you claim we've played (like two or three times) before, it doesn't mean I immediately remember your in-character name and will continue to do so.

We've played much more than 2 or 3 times. It's not about memorizing my name either, you could at least take a half second to check the 12 player scoreboard and see if it's anyone involved in the sit or ask the mod in charge of the sit.

Not that BlackDog has anything to do with the situation or my view on administrator sits, BlackDog mostly holds the sit at location of incident. That way, anyone that would want to interfere with it know there's an adminstrator sit going on and usually leaves it alone. We, however, were brought up to a roof. Out of sight of anyone else and the officers were left down there without a clue. And without a clue also goes for me, I don't know what officers get into on the ground or if they get into another chase with someone that ultimately finds a hiding spot on a compound that you own.

I brought up blackdog cause he actually influenced my view and I know you know him pretty well. As for not knowing if someone was hiding, we were the only anarchists and the doors were closed. If they were open, they wouldn't need a warrant anyway.

Good, so you must also understand that from my point of view, all I get is a search warrant (later to be identified on you) for reason ''suspect inside property''. It doesn't clarify if they mean you, Dan, Sourlemon or someone else they could have been chasing and ran onto your property to hide out there. I couldn't know from up on the roof, nor did I have the time to focus on that as there was an on-going administrator sit.

Well, you knew it wasn't Dan because he was arrested and in an orange jumpsuit. You also knew it wasn't me because I stated multiple times I died at the beginning. Again, someone being chased is unlikely for the reason I brought up before. That said, another thing you could have done since you knew it was my property: asked what the situation was. It's MTL, nothing is going to be so urgent you have to insta-accept a search warrant for "suspect on property." They can set up a blockade at the one and only entrance. If it was "hostage situation" or something urgent I could understand, but suspect on property is not a huge deal.

Honestly, I think this has all been one big misunderstanding from both parties involved. Something that could have been figured out by speaking to one another in-game (which I later on did about the warrant).

Besides that, none of your assets have been destroyed as I did give them the order to NOT touch or dismantle your contraband (in regards to the administrator sit we were in) after it became clear they couldn't find the suspect but instead, found your contraband.

I don't know what you mean by assets but Dan and Sour's contra was in fact destroyed

[Wesley Lawrence]

There's nothing to assume. There were maybe 12 players are on the server. 6 were cops, 3 were my group, and 2 were staff (one crashed). No one had a criminal job except for street racer. We were literally basically the only criminals.

And then again, I was focussing on the administrator sit and not on how many exact criminals were on. Assumptions are made by both the accusing party and the accused party. It is not my fault that I assumed they went after someone that could have hid inside your compound. I also cannot see whether or not the doors are open and/or if they have been closed again. Nor can I see if you gave anyone else permission to be able to operate keypads, etc. There are all kinds of scenarios on this one and you're purposely picking the worse (including the assumption that I did this because I was ''frustrated for being killed'') to show me in a bad light.

We've played much more than 2 or 3 times. It's not about memorizing my name either, you could at least take a half second to check the 12 player scoreboard and see if it's anyone involved in the sit or ask the mod in charge of the sit.

''Also, in case Wesley says he didn't know, I have had the same roleplay name since the server started and he has RPed with me before.'' sounds to me like you expected me to memorize your name and purposely made the mistake of handing them approval for a search warrant on you. I play with numerous of players on a nearly daily basis. You cannot expect me to have any bells ringing when a name pops up from a player that I haven't seen around here for multiple months. I still stick to my claim that I figured they were going after someone else and the other suspect had gone onto your property but didn't feel the need to completely figure that out as we were dealing with an on-going administrator sit. Plus, quickly going through the 12 player scoreboard wouldn't have made any difference as I cannot see who's doing criminal roleplay and who's not. We were only 5 players from a total of about 12 players. The possibility is there.

Well, you knew it wasn't Dan because he was arrested and in an orange jumpsuit. You also knew it wasn't me because I stated multiple times I died at the beginning. Again, someone being chased is unlikely for the reason I brought up before. That said, another thing you could have done since you knew it was my property: asked what the situation was. It's MTL, nothing is going to be so urgent you have to insta-accept a search warrant for "suspect on property." They can set up a blockade at the one and only entrance. If it was "hostage situation" or something urgent I could understand, but suspect on property is not a huge deal.

It's for me to decide whether or not I find something necessary enough to accept or not. I figured they were in an on-going pursuit with a suspect that had gone onto your property. And before giving said suspect the chance to do or hide whatever or where ever on your property, I decided to warrant so the responding cops were able to figure the rest out for themselves.

I don't know what you mean by assets but Dan and Sour's contra was in fact destroyed

And through logged radio conversations you will find me specifically saying that it is NOT to be destroyed in regards to an administrator sit. What they did on your property further is out of my reach. I did my part saying that we were in a sit and that they were not to touch anything further (except from taking photos as proof).

Again, I think this has been more of a misunderstanding on both side of the parties than a purposely placed warrant because ''I was frustrated I got killed''. Something I have never done before, nor in my opinion, done now because it violates multiple rules. Something I don't intend on doing.

[goigle]

And then again, I was focussing on the administrator sit and not on how many exact criminals were on. Assumptions are made by both the accusing party and the accused party. It is not my fault that I assumed they went after someone that could have hid inside your compound. I also cannot see whether or not the doors are open and/or if they have been closed again. Nor can I see if you gave anyone else permission to be able to operate keypads, etc. There are all kinds of scenarios on this one and you're purposely picking the worse (including the assumption that I did this because I was ''frustrated for being killed'') to show me in a bad light.

What? How is it not your fault that you assumed?

As for painting you in a bad light, this is what I said:

I don't know if this is a specific rule but this feels like a rule break done because he was frustrated that he was killed and I would like some staff opinions on this

All I said is what it felt like based on your reaction when I pointed out I was the one you warranted (which seemed like "woops, didn't know, sucks, sorry" in game at the time based on your tone of voice)

''Also, in case Wesley says he didn't know, I have had the same roleplay name since the server started and he has RPed with me before.'' sounds to me like you expected me to memorize your name and purposely made the mistake of handing them approval for a search warrant on you. I play with numerous of players on a nearly daily basis. You cannot expect me to have any bells ringing when a name pops up from a player that I haven't seen around here for multiple months. I still stick to my claim that I figured they were going after someone else and the other suspect had gone onto your property but didn't feel the need to completely figure that out as we were dealing with an on-going administrator sit. Plus, quickly going through the 12 player scoreboard wouldn't have made any difference as I cannot see who's doing criminal roleplay and who's not. We were only 5 players from a total of about 12 players. The possibility is there.

I'm not expecting you to memorize my name, but my point is at a very minimum you are familiar with it. That said, it seems you're contradicting yourself. You are saying you did not know it was me and then you are saying you thought someone was hiding on my property. I could be misunderstanding you so please clarify.

It's for me to decide whether or not I find something necessary enough to accept or not. I figured they were in an on-going pursuit with a suspect that had gone onto your property. And before giving said suspect the chance to do or hide whatever or where ever on your property, I decided to warrant so the responding cops were able to figure the rest out for themselves.

MTL isn't that big. A cop needing to write a warrant is long enough for someone to sprint to the other side. That's a weak argument, especially considering if they are hiding in there it's not like they're going anywhere fast.

And through logged radio conversations you will find me specifically saying that it is NOT to be destroyed in regards to an administrator sit. What they did on your property further is out of my reach. I did my part saying that we were in a sit and that they were not to touch anything further (except from taking photos as proof).

You are acknowledging that the property had an ongoing administrator sit (and that you must have known that, hence you telling them not touch anything) and letting people in could interfere with that in some way. Why would you let people in? This makes absolutely no sense to  me.

Did you do it through text radio chat? If you did, I did not see you typing so I must have missed it.

Edit: I know what you are talking about, ignore striked out line. I still firmly think you should have told them to hold off. Based on your side of the radio chatter it doesn't sound remotely urgent.

For anyone curious:

[PilotC]

Most likely this will be lost somewhere in this novel over a bit of contraband and some misunderstandings but I will give my side of the story since I was mentioned twice. I will try to keep it unbiased and straight to the point as best that I can.

Wesley and I were originally dispatched for a citizen spotting drugs on the property (MTL) and we both attached ourselves to said call. Whether the situation had played out with or without the shooting of LEO's it most likely would have resulted in a search meaning the contraband would have most likely been found. 

While I definitely agree that warrants should be verified before clearance is given, I am just as guilty as Wesley is to not always reading a warrant since most players can act fairly autonomously without supervisory intervention and typically need warrants filed fairly quickly. While I can't confirm it I do strongly believe Wesley did reply to PD stating NOT to damage any contraband found on location. As Wesley stated prior, the actions of the LEOs are out of his control after he has given them that information and they can do as they please. Regarding the number of criminal players on the server there were more than just the three of them so it was possible the other players could have had a warrant placed and Wesley or someone just quickly skim through them.

Truthfully I don't see the point in this argument or report being the situation has already been addressed both by Nightmare and Bambo and it's public records of what Wesley said over chat regarding the warrant and situation. At this point it seems more like an attempt to milk the situation for all it's worth, but that is only my opinion. If there is any other information I may be able to provide as I as part of the 911 Call, Roleplay Event, and admin sit I will be more than happy to discuss it.

[goigle]

Most likely this will be lost somewhere in this novel over a bit of contraband and some misunderstandings but I will give my side of the story since I was mentioned twice. I will try to keep it unbiased and straight to the point as best that I can.

Wesley and I were originally dispatched for a citizen spotting drugs on the property (MTL) and we both attached ourselves to said call. Whether the situation had played out with or without the shooting of LEO's it most likely would have resulted in a search meaning the contraband would have most likely been found. 

I agree with this, but the key here is with or without shooting: Sour should have at least had a chance to do something at the base instead of being stuck in an admin sit.

While I definitely agree that warrants should be verified before clearance is given, I am just as guilty as Wesley is to not always reading a warrant since most players can act fairly autonomously without supervisory intervention and typically need warrants filed fairly quickly.

I can understand that in a normal situation, but we were in an admin sit. Additionally, Wesley himself said he "figured they were going after someone else and the other suspect had gone onto [my] property" so it's not like he did not know what was going on.

Truthfully I don't see the point in this argument or report being the situation has already been addressed both by Nightmare and Bambo and it's public records of what Wesley said over chat regarding the warrant and situation. At this point it seems more like an attempt to milk the situation for all it's worth, but that is only my opinion. If there is any other information I may be able to provide as I as part of the 911 Call, Roleplay Event, and admin sit I will be more than happy to discuss it.

I am not trying to milk anything and it's not like I was banned or blacklisted and am mad. In fact, the admin sit had little to do with me (sour did the killing) and my contraband was not destroyed. I'm going to reiterate what I said in my first post:

I don't know if this is a specific rule but this feels like a rule break and I would like some staff opinions on this

[Overlewd]

Player report concluded.

Please keep in mind that while there is an on-going @ sit during a raid or as a raid is about to start which involves some or all of the raid participants, the raid should be put on-hold until the sit is concluded. Ideally the warrant would not be issued and the SWAT would not breach until the sit was concluded. Take this as a verbal warning of sorts.

Since the involved players and the reported player were not specifically told this during the @ sit, and this stance is not specifically written in the server rules, no punishments will be issued.