[Ollie630]

I'll let a staff member conclude.

I think it's a different enough situation, I didn't intentionally seek out confrontation with you, rather break an associate out of jail using information provided to me in my new life.

You went to the PD where I worked, surely you knew that there was a chance of having a me being there? Also, you may have been given the information in your new life, but the rule still states that you have to avoid contact with anyone involved. Even if you didn't seek confrontation with me on purpose, you still broke the rule by making contact with Cole by attempting to break him out of prison.

4.1 - If you die, you forget how you died. You cannot go back to the place where you died for 10 minutes or interfere in any other way with the RP happening in that area. If you were killed, avoid contact with the players that killed you for the duration of the NLR timer. Ask for staff permission to break NLR if you died to a bug/prop/RDM/etc.

The rule states I must avoid contact with the players that KILLED ME. Cole didn't kill me. As I said before, I didn't intend to run into you, I personally find Cops patrolling much more often than sitting inside PD. I was a long way away from the location at which I died. I didn't interfere with the RP happening in that area, nor did I return to the place at which I had died.

Hold on, you went into the PD, expecting not to find a cop? You took a very well calculated risk, you knew you would find cops, hence the clothes were wearing, and arming yourself with a gun you could hide, you knew I could have been going back to the PD for a number of reasons (resupply, make a police report, take a break etc.), you chose to assist in the raid which would interfere with a still ongoing situation (the situation would end after he was released from prison as I would no longer would have to worry of him escaping).

Also, how did you know that Cole was being held at that facility or what group you/Cole were a part of? I highly doubt you had time to plan all ICly that with Nemesis in the 4 minutes between your death and breaking Cole out of prison.

[ForceGhost]

You went to the PD where I worked, surely you knew that there was a chance of having a me being there? Also, you may have been given the information in your new life, but the rule still states that you have to avoid contact with anyone involved. Even if you didn't seek confrontation with me on purpose, you still broke the rule by making contact with Cole by attempting to break him out of prison.

4.1 - If you die, you forget how you died. You cannot go back to the place where you died for 10 minutes or interfere in any other way with the RP happening in that area. If you were killed, avoid contact with the players that killed you for the duration of the NLR timer. Ask for staff permission to break NLR if you died to a bug/prop/RDM/etc.

The rule states I must avoid contact with the players that KILLED ME. Cole didn't kill me. As I said before, I didn't intend to run into you, I personally find Cops patrolling much more often than sitting inside PD. I was a long way away from the location at which I died. I didn't interfere with the RP happening in that area, nor did I return to the place at which I had died.

Hold on, you went into the PD, expecting not to find a cop? You took a very well calculated risk, you knew you would find cops, hence the clothes were wearing, and arming yourself with a gun you could hide, you knew I could had been going back to the PD for a number of reasons (resupply, make a police report, take a break etc.), you chose to assist in the raid which would interfere with a still ongoing situation (the situation would end after he was released from prison as I would no longer would have to worry of him escaping).

Also, how did you know that Cole was being held at that facility or what group you/Cole were a part of? I highly doubt you had time to plan all ICly that with Nemesis in the 4 minutes between your death and breaking Cole out of prison.

There's up to 10 LEO's. I didn't intend to run into you. I didn't have a gun I could hide, I had an AR-15 I believe. I didn't interfere with the situation, he was arrested. Situation concluded. Either way, nowhere in the rule does it state I can't interfere, it states I can't interfere with the RP happening IN THAT AREA. Which I didn't.

4.1 - If you die, you forget how you died. You cannot go back to the place where you died for 10 minutes or interfere in any other way with the RP happening in that area. If you were killed, avoid contact with the players that killed you for the duration of the NLR timer. Ask for staff permission to break NLR if you died to a bug/prop/RDM/etc.

Like I said, I either PM'd him and got the jail switchboard or was told by Nemesis, I don't recall. We're quick thinkers.

[Ollie630]

The rule states I must avoid contact with the players that KILLED ME. Cole didn't kill me. As I said before, I didn't intend to run into you, I personally find Cops patrolling much more often than sitting inside PD. I was a long way away from the location at which I died. I didn't interfere with the RP happening in that area, nor did I return to the place at which I had died.

Hold on, you went into the PD, expecting not to find a cop? You took a very well calculated risk, you knew you would find cops, hence the clothes were wearing, and arming yourself with a gun you could hide, you knew I could had been going back to the PD for a number of reasons (resupply, make a police report, take a break etc.), you chose to assist in the raid which would interfere with a still ongoing situation (the situation would end after he was released from prison as I would no longer would have to worry of him escaping).

Also, how did you know that Cole was being held at that facility or what group you/Cole were a part of? I highly doubt you had time to plan all ICly that with Nemesis in the 4 minutes between your death and breaking Cole out of prison.

There's up to 10 LEO's. I didn't intend to run into you.

Like I said, I either PM'd him and got the jail switchboard or was told by Nemesis, I don't recall. We're quick thinkers.

You had a 10% chance to break a rule, and you did. If you didn't intend to break the rules you could have ran, hid or acted as a cop, not shoot me in the back of the head the second you saw the chance.

[ForceGhost]

Hold on, you went into the PD, expecting not to find a cop? You took a very well calculated risk, you knew you would find cops, hence the clothes were wearing, and arming yourself with a gun you could hide, you knew I could had been going back to the PD for a number of reasons (resupply, make a police report, take a break etc.), you chose to assist in the raid which would interfere with a still ongoing situation (the situation would end after he was released from prison as I would no longer would have to worry of him escaping).

Also, how did you know that Cole was being held at that facility or what group you/Cole were a part of? I highly doubt you had time to plan all ICly that with Nemesis in the 4 minutes between your death and breaking Cole out of prison.

There's up to 10 LEO's. I didn't intend to run into you.

Like I said, I either PM'd him and got the jail switchboard or was told by Nemesis, I don't recall. We're quick thinkers.

You had a 10% chance to break a rule, and you did. If you didn't intend to break the rules you could have ran, hid or acted as a cop, not shoot me in the back of the head the second you saw the chance.

Like I said in my last response. The rule states not to interfere in any way with the RP happening IN THAT AREA. Which I didn't. Nor did I intend to to make contact with you. I could have bumped into you on mainstreet. I wasn't following you and attempting to make contact with you.

4.1 - If you die, you forget how you died. You cannot go back to the place where you died for 10 minutes or interfere in any other way with the RP happening in that area. If you were killed, avoid contact with the players that killed you for the duration of the NLR timer. Ask for staff permission to break NLR if you died to a bug/prop/RDM/etc.

[Ollie630]

There's up to 10 LEO's. I didn't intend to run into you.

Like I said, I either PM'd him and got the jail switchboard or was told by Nemesis, I don't recall. We're quick thinkers.

You had a 10% chance to break a rule, and you did. If you didn't intend to break the rules you could have ran, hid or acted as a cop, not shoot me in the back of the head the second you saw the chance.

Like I said in my last response. The rule states not to interfere in any way with the RP happening IN THAT AREA. Which I didn't. Nor did I intend to to make contact with you.

4.1 - If you die, you forget how you died. You cannot go back to the place where you died for 10 minutes or interfere in any other way with the RP happening in that area. If you were killed, avoid contact with the players that killed you for the duration of the NLR timer. Ask for staff permission to break NLR if you died to a bug/prop/RDM/etc.

4.1 - If you die, you forget how you died. You cannot go back to the place where you died for 10 minutes or interfere in any other way with the RP happening in that area. If you were killed, avoid contact with the players that killed you for the duration of the NLR timer. Ask for staff permission to break NLR if you died to a bug/prop/RDM/etc.

I shot at you, I assisted in your death, so you broke that part of the rule by killing me in the PD.

[ForceGhost]

You had a 10% chance to break a rule, and you did. If you didn't intend to break the rules you could have ran, hid or acted as a cop, not shoot me in the back of the head the second you saw the chance.

Like I said in my last response. The rule states not to interfere in any way with the RP happening IN THAT AREA. Which I didn't. Nor did I intend to to make contact with you.

4.1 - If you die, you forget how you died. You cannot go back to the place where you died for 10 minutes or interfere in any other way with the RP happening in that area. If you were killed, avoid contact with the players that killed you for the duration of the NLR timer. Ask for staff permission to break NLR if you died to a bug/prop/RDM/etc.

4.1 - If you die, you forget how you died. You cannot go back to the place where you died for 10 minutes or interfere in any other way with the RP happening in that area. If you were killed, avoid contact with the players that killed you for the duration of the NLR timer. Ask for staff permission to break NLR if you died to a bug/prop/RDM/etc.

I shot at you, I assisted in your death, so you broke that part of the rule by killing me in the PD.

How on earth am I supposed to know you shot at me? I only saw Sandmans name and unfortunately I don't have access to my damage logs. I still didn't actively seek out contact with you. If you had pulled me over near PD should I have driven away from you to avoid you too? I didn't get involved in the situation at the location I died, nor did I actively seek out the player who I had knowledge of being at the scene of my death.

[Welker]

Hello,

I will be taking this case as Decay has decided he did not wish to conclude it himself. For starters I do not believe NLR is an issue in this situation as it does not seem to be malicious nor intentional, merely a coincidence. 

However as you well know, killing is meant to be a last resort and since you had a shotgun to Ollie's back with his hands up I do not see how he posed any threat to you whatsoever, you use the excuse that "He saw our faces" but it is not a good enough reason especially since you were trespassing in the first place. If you could kill everyone that witnessed a crime the server would be in turmoil. 

If you were indeed posing as a police officer, would it not make more sense to work with Ollie to move Nemesis back into his cell and remove them both at a later time? Or even taken him hostage, Ollie only saw Nemesis' face and he was a prisoner as far as he was concerned. While Ollie initially had his weapon aimed at Nemesis he quickly put it away and was unarmed, I see little reasoning behind your motives here.

[ForceGhost]

If you were indeed posing as a police officer, would it not make more sense to work with Ollie to move Nemesis back into his cell and remove them both at a later time? Or even taken him hostage, Ollie only saw Nemesis' face and he was a prisoner as far as he was concerned. While Ollie initially had his weapon aimed at Nemesis he quickly put it away and was unarmed, I see little reasoning behind your motives here.

That was my intention, but as soon as Ollie put his hands up my thought was that I had been compromised. I thought that Ollie must have known that I wasn't an LEO otherwise he would have taken my commands as being toward the Prisoner and not himself. 

As far as I am aware once you've been identified committing a crime you are allowed to take steps to eliminate witnesses. Having done this multiple times in the past while playing with staff members and being brought to an admin sit and explaining my reasons.

[ForceGhost]

I'd also like to ask why it would be any different if I had removed Ollie later? The PD was empty, I was well out of earshot and was able to hide the body easily.

[Welker]

That was my intention, but as soon as Ollie put his hands up my thought was that I had been compromised. I thought that Ollie must have known that I wasn't an LEO otherwise he would have taken my commands as being toward the Prisoner and not himself. 

Ollie had not even faced you. It seems you went from 0 to 100 when you had the faintest idea you may be compromised when you absolutely were not. 

As far as I am aware once you've been identified committing a crime you are allowed to take steps to eliminate witnesses. Having done this multiple times in the past while playing with staff members and being brought to an admin sit and explaining my reasons.

Then it would appear you are ill informed since killing someone because they're a witness to a crime being the sole reason is definitely not allowed, I would be very interested to know which staff member(s) you're mentioning in regards to that. "Steps" can absolutely be taken but immediately gunning down witnesses is not one of them.

If you could kill everyone who witnessed a crime, you could in theory kill someone you mugged for witnessing their own mugging, however that is not the case since it was your choice to expose your criminal behavior and would be extremely unfair to everyone involved.

I'd also like to ask why it would be any different if I had removed Ollie later? The PD was empty, I was well out of earshot and was able to hide the body easily.

I was referring to Cole and Nemesis, if you were so sure nobody else is around why did you jump the gun and immediately kill Ollie without first hostaging him or taking other "steps"?

[ForceGhost]

That was my intention, but as soon as Ollie put his hands up my thought was that I had been compromised. I thought that Ollie must have known that I wasn't an LEO otherwise he would have taken my commands as being toward the Prisoner and not himself. 

Ollie had not even faced you. It seems you went from 0 to 100 when you had the faintest idea you may be compromised when you absolutely were not. 

As far as I am aware once you've been identified committing a crime you are allowed to take steps to eliminate witnesses. Having done this multiple times in the past while playing with staff members and being brought to an admin sit and explaining my reasons.

Then it would appear you are ill informed since killing someone because they're a witness to a crime being the sole reason is definitely not allowed, I would be very interested to know which staff member(s) you're mentioning in regards to that. "Steps" can absolutely be taken but immediately gunning down witnesses is not one of them.

If you could kill everyone who witnessed a crime, you could in theory kill someone you mugged for witnessing their own mugging, however that is not the case since it was your choice to expose your criminal behavior and would be extremely unfair to everyone involved.

I'd also like to ask why it would be any different if I had removed Ollie later? The PD was empty, I was well out of earshot and was able to hide the body easily.

I was referring to Cole and Nemesis, if you were so sure nobody else is around why did you jump the gun and immediately kill Ollie without first hostaging him or taking other "steps"?

Ollie at first, had a shotgun out, so wouldn't have been obliged to follow FearRP. He was also attempting to arrest an associate of mine. I didn't expect him to put his hands up since he didn't have to follow FearRP (He switched from his weapon to his arrest baton) so I wasn't going to risk him turning around and shooting me with the beanbag shotgun, which he could have pulled out due to not being under FearRP.

Ollie was more than just a witness, he was an LEO who witnessed a jail break in progress and chose to intervene. That came with a price, which in this case was death.

[Welker]

That was my intention, but as soon as Ollie put his hands up my thought was that I had been compromised. I thought that Ollie must have known that I wasn't an LEO otherwise he would have taken my commands as being toward the Prisoner and not himself. 

Ollie had not even faced you. It seems you went from 0 to 100 when you had the faintest idea you may be compromised when you absolutely were not. 

As far as I am aware once you've been identified committing a crime you are allowed to take steps to eliminate witnesses. Having done this multiple times in the past while playing with staff members and being brought to an admin sit and explaining my reasons.

Then it would appear you are ill informed since killing someone because they're a witness to a crime being the sole reason is definitely not allowed, I would be very interested to know which staff member(s) you're mentioning in regards to that. "Steps" can absolutely be taken but immediately gunning down witnesses is not one of them.

If you could kill everyone who witnessed a crime, you could in theory kill someone you mugged for witnessing their own mugging, however that is not the case since it was your choice to expose your criminal behavior and would be extremely unfair to everyone involved.

I'd also like to ask why it would be any different if I had removed Ollie later? The PD was empty, I was well out of earshot and was able to hide the body easily.

I was referring to Cole and Nemesis, if you were so sure nobody else is around why did you jump the gun and immediately kill Ollie without first hostaging him or taking other "steps"?

Ollie at first, had a shotgun out, so wouldn't have been obliged to follow FearRP. He was also attempting to arrest an associate of mine. Initially he had his shotgun out, yes. However Ollie was under FearRP torwards the end, albeit you gave him little opportunity to put his hands up. Even so, you cannot kill a police officer simply to avoid an associate being arrested.

I didn't expect him to put his hands up since he didn't have to follow FearRP (He switched from his weapon to his arrest baton) so I wasn't going to risk him turning around and shooting me with the beanbag shotgun, which he could have pulled out due to not being under FearRP.
FearRP applied to Ollie in this situation when he was holding his arrest baton and putting his hands up. 

Ollie was more than just a witness, he was an LEO who witnessed a jail break in progress and chose to intervene. That came with a price, which in this case was death. Again, you cannot kill anyone be it citizen of government simply to avoid being arrested OR because they're a witness to a crime. I would be very interested to know which staff member(s) authorized or have played a part in such killings as you claim, please contact me over the forums with the name(s).

[Welker]

Ollie had not even faced you. It seems you went from 0 to 100 when you had the faintest idea you may be compromised when you absolutely were not. 


Then it would appear you are ill informed since killing someone because they're a witness to a crime being the sole reason is definitely not allowed, I would be very interested to know which staff member(s) you're mentioning in regards to that. "Steps" can absolutely be taken but immediately gunning down witnesses is not one of them.

If you could kill everyone who witnessed a crime, you could in theory kill someone you mugged for witnessing their own mugging, however that is not the case since it was your choice to expose your criminal behavior and would be extremely unfair to everyone involved.


I was referring to Cole and Nemesis, if you were so sure nobody else is around why did you jump the gun and immediately kill Ollie without first hostaging him or taking other "steps"?

Ollie at first, had a shotgun out, so wouldn't have been obliged to follow FearRP. He was also attempting to arrest an associate of mine. Initially he had his shotgun out, yes. However Ollie was under FearRP torwards the end, albeit you gave him little opportunity to put his hands up. Even so, you cannot kill a police officer simply to avoid an associate being arrested.

I didn't expect him to put his hands up since he didn't have to follow FearRP (He switched from his weapon to his arrest baton) so I wasn't going to risk him turning around and shooting me with the beanbag shotgun, which he could have pulled out due to not being under FearRP.
FearRP applied to Ollie in this situation when he was holding his arrest baton and putting his hands up. 

Ollie was more than just a witness, he was an LEO who witnessed a jail break in progress and chose to intervene. That came with a price, which in this case was death. Again, you cannot kill anyone be it citizen of government simply to avoid being arrested OR because they're a witness to a crime. I would be very interested to know which staff member(s) authorized or have played a part in such killings as you claim, please contact me over the forums with the name(s).

@ForceGhost still awaiting your forum message, apart from this did you have anything else to add?

[ForceGhost]

Ollie at first, had a shotgun out, so wouldn't have been obliged to follow FearRP. He was also attempting to arrest an associate of mine. Initially he had his shotgun out, yes. However Ollie was under FearRP torwards the end, albeit you gave him little opportunity to put his hands up. Even so, you cannot kill a police officer simply to avoid an associate being arrested.

I didn't expect him to put his hands up since he didn't have to follow FearRP (He switched from his weapon to his arrest baton) so I wasn't going to risk him turning around and shooting me with the beanbag shotgun, which he could have pulled out due to not being under FearRP.
FearRP applied to Ollie in this situation when he was holding his arrest baton and putting his hands up. 

Ollie was more than just a witness, he was an LEO who witnessed a jail break in progress and chose to intervene. That came with a price, which in this case was death. Again, you cannot kill anyone be it citizen of government simply to avoid being arrested OR because they're a witness to a crime. I would be very interested to know which staff member(s) authorized or have played a part in such killings as you claim, please contact me over the forums with the name(s).

@ForceGhost still awaiting your forum message, apart from this did you have anything else to add?

Negative, it's always been my understanding that you're allowed to take lethal action against officers who actively attempt to stop your jailbreak.

[Welker]

@ForceGhost still awaiting your forum message, apart from this did you have anything else to add?

Negative, it's always been my understanding that you're allowed to take lethal action against officers who actively attempt to stop your jailbreak.

That's fine. However you have a further 24 hours to answer the question of which staff before an appropriate response is made. 

I would be very interested to know which staff member(s) authorized or have played a part in such killings as you claim, please contact me over the forums with the name(s).