[Dutch]

Alright, so upon some further digging, I've discovered the following:

* As originally suggested, Darkos was not the one to tranq. This was in fact @I Too Have An Uncle.
* @I Too Have An Uncle had an invalid job title to engage. It was set to Citizen.
* Darkos was the one who made the kill.

Please could someone inform @I Too Have An Uncle that the conclusion of this PR will now involve him.

I'm not sure why Vatipaa was immediately killed. Your a crime family, not ruthless killers. Surely you'd want to avoid unnecessary bloodshed, no? Taking him hostage and trying to negociate his release would have been much better, especially considering you initially tranq'd him down. It would have been extremely easy to move him to a nearby house and sort it out from there.

I understand but leaving a cop live and bring the whole family indanger isn't really smart idea aswell so we had to make the descission ASAP.

No, but you could have very easily moved him off the street, spoke with him a bit and determined where you stood. If you felt at that point it was appropriate to kill him and deal with loose ends, then I wouldn't have a problem but you took almost 0 time to determine what you were going to do. He was going to be released, had you guys not decided to tranq and then kill him. There was no need to intervene.

True i took 0 sec because i was stressing and he had his weapon out so that means if he got up he could have started shooting so it was or shoot him or danger the lives of me (the Don of the crime family) and the 3rd highest member in the clan so for my character it was a pretty good reason to kill him in my opinion. I mean i rather kill someone then let them get up and kill me right? (Cause it clearly shows in the vid as soon as he got tranqed he got out his shotgun so he pretty much he was about to shoot me or get me under fear RP)

[yutgjctguc]

-snip-

True i took 0 sec because i was stressing and he had his weapon out so that means if he got up he could have started shooting so it was or shoot him or danger the lives of me (the Don of the crime family) and the 3rd highest member in the clan so for my character it was a pretty good reason to kill him in my opinion. I mean i rather kill someone then let them get up and kill me right? (Cause it clearly shows in the vid as soon as he got tranqed he got out his shotgun so he pretty much he was about to shoot me or get me under fear RP)

While I am tranqulized, you can leave me and escape the situation. You can also hostage rope me if you have one.

[Dutch]

-snip-

True i took 0 sec because i was stressing and he had his weapon out so that means if he got up he could have started shooting so it was or shoot him or danger the lives of me (the Don of the crime family) and the 3rd highest member in the clan so for my character it was a pretty good reason to kill him in my opinion. I mean i rather kill someone then let them get up and kill me right? (Cause it clearly shows in the vid as soon as he got tranqed he got out his shotgun so he pretty much he was about to shoot me or get me under fear RP)

While I am tranqulized, you can leave me and escape the situation. You can also hostage rope me if you have one.

Did not have a hostage rope at the time and we couldnt run cause he was cuffed and too slow the tranqs are way to short for that.

[Dutch]

Alright, so upon some further digging, I've discovered the following:

* As originally suggested, Darkos was not the one to tranq. This was in fact @I Too Have An Uncle.
* @I Too Have An Uncle had an invalid job title to engage. It was set to Citizen.
* Darkos was the one who made the kill.

Please could someone inform @I Too Have An Uncle that the conclusion of this PR will now involve him.

I'm not sure why Vatipaa was immediately killed. Your a crime family, not ruthless killers. Surely you'd want to avoid unnecessary bloodshed, no? Taking him hostage and trying to negociate his release would have been much better, especially considering you initially tranq'd him down. It would have been extremely easy to move him to a nearby house and sort it out from there.

I understand but leaving a cop live and bring the whole family indanger isn't really smart idea aswell so we had to make the descission ASAP.

No, but you could have very easily moved him off the street, spoke with him a bit and determined where you stood. If you felt at that point it was appropriate to kill him and deal with loose ends, then I wouldn't have a problem but you took almost 0 time to determine what you were going to do. He was going to be released, had you guys not decided to tranq and then kill him. There was no need to intervene.

As soon as he got tranqed i kinda didn't have a choice we are a criminal crime family we don't really  play nice thats just how our RP goes cause he was gonna get up and put us under gun point so we really did not have a choice.

[Dutch]

I really don't think this was rule breaking or maybe you suggest that a crime family should let there members get arrested and cooperate with the cops at all times cause thats where this seems to go.
I mean am i not allowed to protect my members cause if he didnt pull out the shotgun while tranqed i could put him under fear rp and RP further but he got out a shotgun and gave me no choice at all.

[Night]

I understand but leaving a cop live and bring the whole family indanger isn't really smart idea aswell so we had to make the descission ASAP.

No, but you could have very easily moved him off the street, spoke with him a bit and determined where you stood. If you felt at that point it was appropriate to kill him and deal with loose ends, then I wouldn't have a problem but you took almost 0 time to determine what you were going to do. He was going to be released, had you guys not decided to tranq and then kill him. There was no need to intervene.

As soon as he got tranqed i kinda didn't have a choice we are a criminal crime family we don't really  play nice thats just how our RP goes cause he was gonna get up and put us under gun point so we really did not have a choice.

You make it out as if you weren't able to hostage rope him, when this was an entirely valid route for you to take. You want to avoid unnecessary bloodshed, as it can draw attention. You had more of a choice, but you failed to choose the right one. He was going to be released had you not intervened, the warrant was denied. There was no need at all.

EDIT: Whilst you may not have had a rope on you, other members of your team could have very easily made their way over to you to deal with him. It's not hard.

[Dutch]

No, but you could have very easily moved him off the street, spoke with him a bit and determined where you stood. If you felt at that point it was appropriate to kill him and deal with loose ends, then I wouldn't have a problem but you took almost 0 time to determine what you were going to do. He was going to be released, had you guys not decided to tranq and then kill him. There was no need to intervene.

As soon as he got tranqed i kinda didn't have a choice we are a criminal crime family we don't really  play nice thats just how our RP goes cause he was gonna get up and put us under gun point so we really did not have a choice.

You make it out as if you weren't able to hostage rope him, when this was an entirely valid route for you to take. You want to avoid unnecessary bloodshed, as it can draw attention. You had more of a choice, but you failed to choose the right one. He was going to be released had you not intervened, the warrant was denied. There was no need at all.

EDIT: Whilst you may not have had a rope on you, other members of your team could have very easily made their way over to you to deal with him. It's not hard.

the tranq is way too short for that we had no time in my opinion.

[Night]

You have 30 seconds from the moment a person goes down from a tranq to act, which I confirmed with another member of staff just earlier.

You had guys sitting on the balcony watching your move, alongside @I Too Have An Uncle. I fail to believe that you couldn't have quickly asked one of them over private radio, voice radio or the likes to quickly jump down and move him off the road.

[yutgjctguc]

Lets go from the start,
SEXUALTOENAIL was revived at 0:45, you guys show up at 1:00 around the same time I made my warrant. At 1:16 the warrant was denied, at 1:18 you can hear somebody arming up and at 1:20 I was tranqed. You then approach my body and with 1-2 people being heard through your mic telling you to kill me (listen carefully 1:29-1:32, possible 3rd party voicechat) and you kill me. So, you just killed me without ever talking to me or trying to understand the situation. From what I get here, you had 20 seconds from when you came to when you killed me and 35 seconds from when SEXUALTOENAIL was revived. You made 0 attempts to even understand what was going on. You basically murdered me for detaining your friend for a few minutes (which you could had only known like 20 seconds) over a simple charge for jaywalking and creating an accident.

[Dutch]

Lets go from the start,
SEXUALTOENAIL was revived at 0:45, you guys show up at 1:00 around the same time I made my warrant. At 1:16 the warrant was denied, at 1:18 you can hear somebody arming up and at 1:20 I was tranqed. You then approach my body and with 1-2 people being heard through your mic telling you to kill me (listen carefully 1:29-1:32, possible 3rd party voicechat) and you kill me. So, you just killed me without ever talking to me or trying to understand the situation. From what I get here, you had 20 seconds from when you came to when you killed me and 35 seconds from when SEXUALTOENAIL was revived. You made 0 attempts to even understand what was going on. You basically murdered me for detaining your friend for a few minutes (which you could had only known like 20 seconds) over a simple charge for jaywalking and creating an accident.

I will say again i was not gonna shoot you but you decided to get out a shotgun and give me no change to put you under fear rp.
So i could not talk it out or rope you cause i hadnt any or run cause Toenail was cuffed so he was to slow.
So shoot was the only option.

[Night]

You could have put him under FearRP whilst he was tranq'd for a good 30 seconds.

Approved.

Accused will receive a 3 hour Weapons blacklist for failing to have valid reason to kill. A clan member/RP group member being arrested isn't solely grounds for you to engage, and as discussed, other routes should be taken.

@I Too Have An Uncle will receive a 1 and a half hour Weapons blacklist for failing to have sufficient job name to engage.