[Kurdayeti]

Your Name: Kurdayeti

Ban ID: [font=Roboto, sans-serif]8171[/font]

Banned by: Please include the [L²]/[L²:M] tag. And tag their forum account. (@administratorsname) 
[font=Roboto, sans-serif][L²:M] Goigle[/font]

Server: CityRP 2 Semi-Serious 

Ban Reason: [font=Roboto, sans-serif]Invalid reason to search a property, detaining people on an invalid basis (accusing them of matching a suspect yet they were wearing completely different clothing) // Probationary Period enforced: Night[/font]

Why should you be unbanned?: There was a jailbreak going on in the police department by an armed man with a mask, gear, and shotgun. He shot me down, killed the President and shot down several other officers. I heard the suspect, when I was injured, steal a cop car and evade with it. My life alert alerted the emergency services and a Paramedic revived me. After that, I rushed to my dodge charger interceptor, opened the police database and tracked the stolen vehicle to US 76 26153. At that point, I rushed there code 3 and demanded all units to the location. When I arrived, the house was open, empty and abandoned. The Crown Victoria car which was stolen was parked in the US 76 26153 garage. The suspect is still on the loose and the description is the following: An armed male, with gear and a mask. Nightmare is an armed male, with a gear and a mask. Yes, Nightmare's gear is admin-only but I thought that I couldn't take it into consideration in-character as it would be Metagaming and I didn't want to risk it due to my general probation. 

So, I told Nightmare to step out with his hands up slowly and steadily. He complied and was quickly cuffed/neutralized; then we placed him in the back of the Crown Victoria and locked the doors. But here is where we don't agree I think: 

I had Nightmare's ID then, so I wanted to do a background check for any criminal background. Kvatch is seen inside Kellco with an assault rifle and the owner of Kellco is Nightmare. I wanted Kvatch neutralized too because he might be a deadly threat to me and others including Nightmare. The only thing I wanted is 2 IDs, background checks and some questioning due to the fact that Nightmare matched the description (not entirely, but partly and that's why he was never warranted for arrest but detained for investigation). Unfortunately, it all escalated to a search warrant, gunshots and Kvatch being gunned down. This escalation could have been avoided and I'm very sorry if I ruined your fun; I did not intend to do that. My deepest apologies.

Kindest Regards,
Kurdayeti 

Evidence: 

[Limelight Gaming]

The staff-members have received your unban-request, Kurdayeti.

It will take a while for it to be reviewed.

[goigle]

The suspect is still on the loose and the description is the following: An armed male, with gear and a mask. Nightmare is an armed male, with a gear and a mask. Yes, Nightmare's gear is admin-only but I thought that I couldn't take it into consideration in-character as it would be Metagaming and I didn't want to risk it due to my general probation. 

When people say masked, they usually mean that masked such that identification is impossible (when it shows the SteamID instead of all their info). In game you even acknowledged that the description was about someone wearing one of the masks accompanied by the a suit or collared shirt, not what Nightmare was wearing. Additionally, the real suspect had a shotgun. Nightmare had a different weapon.

The fact that it is admin only is irrelevant, you had a correct description and chose to ignore it.

So, I told Nightmare to step out with his hands up slowly and steadily. He complied and was quickly cuffed/neutralized; then we placed him in the back of the Crown Victoria and locked the doors. But here is where we don't agree I think:
I had Nightmare's ID then, so I wanted to do a background check for any criminal background. Kvatch is seen inside Kellco with an assault rifle and the owner of Kellco is Nightmare. I wanted Kvatch neutralized too because he might be a deadly threat to me and others including Nightmare.

As Kvatch and the president pointed out, the P90 in Kvatch's possession was legal and that was explicitly stated in the laws at the time. A P90 is not an assault rifle FWIW.
Why would Kvatch, who was basing with Nightmare, be a threat to Nightmare? That's a logical leap. There's effectively one entrance to Kellco, how would Kvatch get in without Night knowing?

(not entirely, but partly and that's why he was never warranted for arrest but detained for investigation)

This is basically what the ban boiled down to. You have many priors for you careless policing and even malicious. He was wearing something completely different than what the suspect was and you admitted that he was.


You saw the suspect. He shot you up close. He was wearing a white mask and a suit. Night was in drab clothing that is not even slightly formal and does not even slightly resemble the clothing the suspect was wearing.

How do you possibly confuse the two?

At best, you had an invalid search warrant and no reason to detain Night. At worst, you were a corrupt police chief (also against the rules) misconstruing facts to raid someone.

[Kurdayeti]

@goigle‍ Thank you for your quick response, I really appreciate it.

When people say masked, they usually mean that masked such that identification is impossible (when it shows the SteamID instead of all their info). In game you even acknowledged that the description was about someone wearing one of the masks accompanied by the a suit or collared shirt, not what Nightmare was wearing. Additionally, the real suspect had a shotgun. Nightmare had a different weapon.

The fact that it is admin only is irrelevant, you had a correct description and chose to ignore it.

If I remember correctly, the suspect had a kevlar vest, with some sort of collared shirt or suit. This is true, but that is why I did not arrest Nightmare, to begin with. I only detained him and wanted to investigate to make sure that he is not the individual we are looking for and that he is not affiliated with this attack. If it's irrelevant that it's an admin-only clothing, then why did you guys used that as an argument towards me? 

As Kvatch and the president pointed out, the P90 in Kvatch's possession was legal and that was explicitly stated in the laws at the time. A P90 is not an assault rifle FWIW.

Why would Kvatch, who was basing with Nightmare, be a threat to Nightmare? That's a logical leap. There's effectively one entrance to Kellco, how would Kvatch get in without Night knowing?

Kvatch would be a threat to Nightmare if it escalated to gunshots as Nightmare was cuffed and locked up in a crown victoria; he would not be able to dodge bullets. It's not a logical leap, I was scared of Kvatch being a deadly threat to me and others (including Nightmare) but it is true that the weapon was legal. I thought that the search warrant wouldn't be an issue as I had reasonable suspicion in my opinion that it could be the suspect we're looking for. 

"There's effectively one entrance to Kellco, how would Kvatch get in without Night knowing?" What do you mean with this though? I'm sorry, I don't understand your question entirely.

This is basically what the ban boiled down to. You have many priors for you careless policing and even malicious. He was wearing something completely different than what the suspect was and you admitted that he was.

Yes, he was partly matching the description and not entirely. This is why he was never warranted for arrest, but lawfully detained. As I said, I never wanted this to escalate, I wanted 2 IDs, background check, questioning and leave. Then, I wanted to proceed to J&M and onwards for witnesses and to alert the public of this attack on their local police department to ensure safety.
I never wanted this to escalate, at all.

[goigle]

If I remember correctly, the suspect had a kevlar vest, with some sort of collared shirt or suit. This is true, but that is why I did not arrest Nightmare, to begin with. I only detained him and wanted to investigate to make sure that he is not the individual we are looking for and that he is not affiliated with this attack. If it's irrelevant that it's an admin-only clothing, then why did you guys used that as an argument towards me? 

That is no reason to detain someone. The outfits are not similar.
I mentioned it was admin only to verify that the person who attacked you wasn't wearing a similar outfit.

Kvatch would be a threat to Nightmare if it escalated to gunshots as Nightmare was cuffed and locked up in a crown victoria; he would not be able to dodge bullets. It's not a logical leap, I was scared of Kvatch being a deadly threat to me and others (including Nightmare) but it is true that the weapon was legal. I thought that the search warrant wouldn't be an issue as I had reasonable suspicion in my opinion that it could be the suspect we're looking for. 

The only reason it would escalate to gunshots is if you escalated it. He had a legal weapon and wasn't posing a threat until you escalated with a search warrant.

"There's effectively one entrance to Kellco, how would Kvatch get in without Night knowing?" What do you mean with this though? I'm sorry, I don't understand your question entirely.
I thought you were saying Kvatch could have been in Kellco to harm Night.

Yes, he was partly matching the description and not entirely. This is why he was never warranted for arrest, but lawfully detained. As I said, I never wanted this to escalate, I wanted 2 IDs, background check, questioning and leave. Then, I wanted to proceed to J&M and onwards for witnesses and to alert the public of this attack on their local police department to ensure safety.
I never wanted this to escalate, at all.

He was not partly matching the description. Night had black balaclava/bandana partially obstructing his face. The suspect had full balaclava and a white hockey mask and formal clothing. Night was in dingy clothing. If this was communicated over radio that'd be one thing, but you saw the suspect face to face.

[Kurdayeti]

That is no reason to detain someone. The outfits are not similar.

I mentioned it was admin only to verify that the person who attacked you wasn't wearing a similar outfit.

It is allowed to detain someone if you have a reasonable suspicion of a crime, I had one at that point but I do agree that the outfits are not 100% similar. This is the description, once again: Armed male with a mask and gear. Sure, it was not him but I needed to roleplay it out in-character. I just wanted a nice police investigation roleplay, not shots fired and a big raid. 

The only reason it would escalate to gunshots is if you escalated it. He had a legal weapon and wasn't posing a threat until you escalated with a search warrant.

"There's effectively one entrance to Kellco, how would Kvatch get in without Night knowing?" What do you mean with this though? I'm sorry, I don't understand your question entirely.
I thought you were saying Kvatch could have been in Kellco to harm Night.

To be honest, it would not escalate if I wouldn't go in with a search warrant. I wanted to avoid escalation as well, I even did broadcasts telling Kvatch to step out. I just wanted to talk and identify them; nothing else. This is true, but the owner of Kellco was Nightmare and Nightmare was temporarily suspected of committing the crime. That's why I thought it would be okay to check it out and I didn't think it would escalate this far. Law 22 made weapons legal, Kvatch's weapon was legal. 

No no, Kvatch wasn't in Kellco to harm Night. You misunderstood, but he could harm Night if he started to shoot at us as Nightmare might not be the right suspect and therefore an innocent individual would die.

He was not partly matching the description. Night had black balaclava/bandana partially obstructing his face. The suspect had full balaclava and a white hockey mask and formal clothing. Night was in dingy clothing. If this was communicated over radio that'd be one thing, but you saw the suspect face to face.

I don't even check those details to this extent that you do and this exact. The only thing I know is that he is armed, masked and geared up. The escalation could've been avoided, that's true and like I said; I did not want to ruin your fun at all. The only thing I can do at this point is to hope for the best as you guys are the ones who decide the outcome and the future of my experience in this community. If you approve this, I will be very happy but I also understand your viewpoint if you deny this ruquest. I can only hope for the best.

[Night]

As I'm involved in the situation it wouldn't be fair for me to conclude this myself, so I'll contact an uninvolved administrator to conclude when they're ready.

Please keep in mind I'm mobile right now so there may be inaccuracies in structure or grammar.

You said to Wesley in the sit that the suspect was masked, and had a shotgun. I presented you with an AR-15, and Kvatch explained he had a P90 - both automatic weapons, both legal by the President at the time which was confirmed to you in the sit. Whilst yes the suit I was wearing was admin only, it is clearly distinguishable from that of the other suits you have. You stated the person who raided the PD as you claim wore Kevlar visibly, my playermodel did not show this as Goigle tried to say in sit. I should have been released as I complied, even gave you ID to confirm I wasn't the guy and yet I wasn't.

As for how you got to Kellco is another story in itself. There were no cars around, and all we get was a knock on the door and all of a sudden instructions to leave the property, hands up and no sudden movements without any indication that we was inside. You only knew I was there by me coming to the door, then later on when I told you I had someone else inside. The only thing that shown we might have been there was a radio playing music to mask any sounds we were making inside.

I'm concerned how you were willing to arrest me (as stated by yourself when Kvatch got gunned down) even though I did nothing wrong. You have so many priors for police misuse, and with your probation period being upgraded recently I would have been far more careful than what you displayed today which has ultimately led up to your permanent suspension.

I agree that the situation was an absolute mess, and stand by Goigle's decision to enforce the probation. I'm sure @Wesley Lawrence would also agree seeing how he handled the sit originally prior to timing out. I also invite @Kvatch to respond, seeing how he was involved in the situation from start to finish too.

[Kurdayeti]

You said to Wesley in the sit that the suspect was masked, and had a shotgun. I presented you with an AR-15, and Kvatch explained he had a P90 - both automatic weapons, both legal by the President at the time which was confirmed to you in the sit. Whilst yes the suit I was wearing was admin only, it is clearly distinguishable from that of the other suits you have. You stated the person who raided the PD as you claim wore Kevlar visibly, my playermodel did not show this as Goigle tried to say in sit. I should have been released as I complied, even gave you ID to confirm I wasn't the guy and yet I wasn't.

Yes, the person that raided the PD wore a kevlar vest visibly. To be honest, I just wanted to check your background and do some investigations in order for me to release you due to the extreme attack on my law enforcement officers in the PD. Unfortunately and stupidly; Kvatch took my attention (not his fault, my fault). Kvatch was in my attention as he had a gun and that's when it started to escalate. I was going to step into my vehicle to check your background but I saw Kvatch peak from the inside of Kellco and therefore I was scared of him doing something due to him being armed. 

We went in, Kvatch started shooting at us and we shot him down. I stepped out and got healed. I never had the chance to release you though, you told me to uncuff you as you suspected a rule violation and then you teleported away; which is totally fine so I did it. I was going to release you Night, even though I said you were in trouble because of your mate trying to kill us. 

As for how you got to Kellco is another story in itself. There were no cars around, and all we get was a knock on the door and all of a sudden instructions to leave the property, hands up and no sudden movements without any indication that we was inside. You only knew I was there by me coming to the door, then later on when I told you I had someone else inside. The only thing that shown we might have been there was a radio playing music to mask any sounds we were making inside.

When I was driving from US 76 26153, we were failing to find the suspect or any trace. I had an idea, I knock on every single house and ask for potential witnesses. I started with Kellco, just knock on the door and talk to the people if they've seen anyone that matches the description. Who opens up at Kellco? Nightmare opens up. Does Nightmare match the description? Partly, so I decided to see what's up. 

I knocked on the door and asked if someone was there. I heard you guys reload weapons as well and then I knew there were people inside. I hear reloading and that's when I thought it might be you. Also, it doesn't help when you come out as you partly match it. You might think I overreacted, which I understand if you do, to be honest, and I'd also be frustrated if I was you. 

Like I said before: 

The escalation could've been avoided, that's true and like I said; I did not want to ruin your fun at all. The only thing I can do at this point is to hope for the best as you guys are the ones who decide the outcome and the future of my experience in this community.

Kindest Regards,
Kurdayeti

[Night]

You knocked on the door of every house, ran back to your vehicle with a gun and demanded them out for "witness statements"? I'm not buying it.

[Kurdayeti]

@Night‍ No, the reason I demanded you guys out when I had my gun out was that you guys were reloading weapons and that's when I thought it could be the suspect trying to kill me as he did before. 

Like I said with the comment above yours:

 I heard you guys reload weapons as well and then I knew there were people inside. I hear reloading and that's when I thought it might be you.

[26']

Hello Kurd,


I've been asked to look over your appeal and my concern is the phrase in which you're constantly repeating, "He partly matched the description" No matter what else is said or what happened you're throwing yourself into the deep end, you're solidifying the reason for the suspension and probation being enforced.

[goigle]

It is allowed to detain someone if you have a reasonable suspicion of a crime, I had one at that point but I do agree that the outfits are not 100% similar. This is the description, once again: Armed male with a mask and gear. Sure, it was not him but I needed to roleplay it out in-character. I just wanted a nice police investigation roleplay, not shots fired and a big raid. 

My point is that you had no reasonable suspicion. The clothing was your reasonable suspicion yet the clothing was not remotely similar, thus you had no reasonable suspicion. Repeating the description is useless, you saw him in person so do not try and misconstrue things.

That's why I thought it would be okay to check it out and I didn't think it would escalate this far. Law 22 made weapons legal, Kvatch's weapon was legal. 

Yes, weapons were legal, further showing you had no reason to ask Kvatch to step out and no reason for a search warrant

I don't even check those details to this extent that you do and this exact. The only thing I know is that he is armed, masked and geared up.

There's no need to check the details. You saw them in person.

Again, if this was a case of miscommunication over the radio, it'd be totally understandable.

You saw them in person. Writing "masked, armed, geared up" does not negate the fact you saw the person and thus knew they were wearing a suit with a white mask. You writing that over and over is just disingenuous and misleading.


To be blatantly clear since you keep repeating it:

Writing a description intentionally stripped of context does not negate the fact you saw what the suspect was wearing with your own eyes. You didn't RP suffering from memory loss and you weren't under NLR because paramedics revived you, thus you must remember what the suspect was wearing.

[Kurdayeti]

Hello Kurd,


I've been asked to look over your appeal and my concern is the phrase in which you're constantly repeating, "He partly matched the description" No matter what else is said or what happened you're throwing yourself into the deep end, you're solidifying the reason for the suspension and probation being enforced.

What do you mean? I didn't search the property because he was partly matching the suspect, I detained him because he was partly matching the suspect. I'm just trying to be clear here of what I think and if there's any rule violation then it's all for you guys to decide.

[Kurdayeti]

My point is that you had no reasonable suspicion. The clothing was your reasonable suspicion yet the clothing was not remotely similar, thus you had no reasonable suspicion. Repeating the description is useless, you saw him in person so do not try and misconstrue things.

I think it is a reasonable suspicion, but if it is not, then it's a big mistake on my part. I thought that it would be completely fine to detain someone in order to check their background and any affiliation with the attacks on PD. I didn't really see him in person, he was masked and unidentifiable? 

Yes, weapons were legal, further showing you had no reason to ask Kvatch to step out and no reason for a search warrant

You see, I wanted Kvatch to step out because I was suspecting Night for being the attacker and therefore Kvatch an affiliate with him or some sort of partner. 

There's no need to check the details. You saw them in person.

Again, if this was a case of miscommunication over the radio, it'd be totally understandable. 

You saw them in person. Writing "masked, armed, geared up" does not negate the fact you saw the person and thus knew they were wearing a suit with a white mask. You writing that over and over is just disingenuous and misleading.

You keep accusing me, I'm already admitting that Night was partly matching and that's why I did not warrant him for arrest but detained him for an investigation to make sure it's not him. What makes someone restricted from changing clothing anyways? Nonetheless, I suspected that it might have been him due to Nightmare's reaction: He reloaded weapon alongside Kvatch upon me knocking and partly matched the suspect. 

I'm just saying my part of the story and I can just hope for the best. You are the staff and you decide what to do; I can only comply and say my part of the story.

[Kurdayeti]

@goigle‍ You keep editing your responses after I answer them, just wanted to point out that it's not fair to do that and it doesn't give me the chance I deserve in this request. I'm just saying what I thought and trying to get this probation off me as my intent was obviously not to go there and annoy Night & Kvatch.