[Soviethooves]

Explain your suggestion, in detail: 

Approve the concept of a Whitelisted Gov or Cadet System.

Explain why the suggestion should be implemented:

Simply just acknowledge the need for SOMETHING to happen with the government that restricts or at least forces players in the slot to have a minimum amount of knowledge to be in the spot and allows for gross negligence in these positions to be treated with OOC punishments. People have left this community because of people that don't know how to RP in these government positions. This is mostly due to them not investigating situations or responding to them correctly, ignoring emergency calls, or just straight up being shit in the job from all aspects. I've been on both sides of this frustration and it is getting to a point where stupidity outweighs actual RP and proper government work.

I would like everyone to understand that this suggestion is about the CONCEPT of some sort of system to be APPROVED by staff to better equip and train players to be in these positions that affect everyone on the server.

If this gets denied for being a duplicate suggestion, please ID which Whitelisted Gov system is approved and for what reason you guys are choosing it.

[Kvatch]

For the rest of this post, I'd like it to be known that "government" is addressing the following jobs: Police Officer, Police Chief, SWAT Unit, SWAT Commander, Paramedic, Fire Fighter, Fire Chief, Secret Service, President and anything else that can be considered "government" on the server.

Pros of whitelisting the government:

1. Improvement to quality of RP
   
2. Steer more towards a serious RP server
   
3. (Currently) limited slots mean less decent Gov RPers can have Gov slots when they want it
   
4. Less people abusing the police job as it could jeprodise their whitelist
   
5. Less unfair arrests
   

Cons of whitelisting the government:

1. People who enjoy semi-serious RP will likely leave, as it would involve them being whitelisted to play what might be their favourite role
   
2. People who haven't yet played the server and only enjoy police RP from, let's say, a previous city RP server, might see that the police job is whitelisted on a semi-serious RP server, then leave soon after
   
3. It would create a serious RP environment within the government, whereas we might not get have a serious RP environment in the underground jobs, which is the other half of the server more or less. This could create inbalances for a government-side heavy server
   
4. Possibility of having LESS Police Officers on at one time since there's less people to take up the role
   

I know I haven't covered everything in the list above, obviously, but if anyone makes any points I'll probably be adding to it to make a summary of it all.

In my opinion, I don't think the police force should be whitelisted. Currently, for misdemeanours, you have the Police Chief, the Vice President and the President to go complain to and have someone demoted in a matter of minutes. This alone is a deterrent for people to misbehave whilst on the force, however, this isn't very effective. A whitelist would definitely fix this issue. (Pro #4)

Steering towards a more serious RP server can be seen as a good and bad thing. For me, this is a pro, as long as it doesn't go too far. Some people enjoy serious RP, whereas some people enjoy less serious RP. If people enjoyed serious RP, why would they be on a semi-serious RP server? I think people like the sound of having Limelight become a serious RP server, just because they enjoy it. However, when it comes to the reality of it, having the systems how they are now is what makes Limelight, Limelight. It's the novelty that counts. How long until people who previously thought the whitelist was a good idea, begin to think the opposite? 

As it stands right now, people who might really want to be on the force, or in any Gov. role, might not be able to be. This could be because the government is filled with people with less than 50 Limelight hours, which is rather frustrating at times - mainly because people judge other people's RP abilities by their amount of Limelight hours, as if Limelight is the only RP server on Gmod ever. This is not the case. You might have really good RPers who want to join the police force, but can't because they don't meet the minimum amount of hours for the police force application. This, for obvious reasons, is an issue with implementing a whitelist.

Less unfair arrests. You'd obviously have less people shouting random arrest in chat, because you would have less police officers arresting people because they lose their temper. Sure, it's a human thing to do, but generally speaking, an officer who can't control himself will likely make arrests that later on, would not make sense to him/her. Randomly arresting a person would likely become an OOC thing and would become punishable by a temporary dewhitelisting. I'll talk more about this in the next paragraph.

Couldn't you say we already have a "whitelist" of some sort? I mean, in the form of blacklists, which by defintion, is the complete opposite of a whitelist. Think of it as the server giving people a chance to RP as a police officer and do it well. If they break the rules, they receive a blacklist, which is essentially just temporarily dewhitelisting them. Just a thought - do with it what you will.

It's gonna be a -Support from me. #forthemanynotthefew

[Rydolph]

+Support

No lenience, anything to stop troll police from randomly raiding bases for "suspicious activity".

[alan245]

-snip-

Couldn't you say we already have a "whitelist" of some sort? I mean, in the form of blacklists, which by defintion, is the complete opposite of a whitelist. Think of it as the server giving people a chance to RP as a police officer and do it well. If they break the rules, they receive a blacklist, which is essentially just temporarily dewhitelisting them. Just a thought - do with it what you will.

It's gonna be a -Support from me. #forthemanynotthefew

Blacklist and whitelist can have totally different result in some special cases.Blacklist stop people from continuous to "learn" from it,if they did something wrong and causes them to stop playing as a LEO.As you have mentioned that hours in the server means nothing,yes this is true,however the server already got a system which limits the time for player to join a certain job.As Gungranny mentioned

Simply just acknowledge the need for something to happen with the government that restricts or at least forces players in the slot to have a minimum amount of knowledge to be in the spot and allows for gross negligence in these positions to be treated with OOC punishments.

This suggestion is trying to help people to get started their PoliceRP,blacklist them for doing that they though it was right,shot at a armed person without asking them to drop their weapon(unauthorized use of lethal force).Blacklisting them won't help anything just as people set a time limit on the job.The suggestion never mentioned that a time requirement will be implement at this point of time.No one would say that they won't judge a player by its hours,its a statistics that may or may not shows the person's experience in Roleplay.They will need to pass a training in order to be a actual law enforcement just like real life.

I would like everyone to understand that this suggestion is about the CONCEPT of some sort of system to be APPROVED by staff to better equip and train players to be in these positions that affect everyone on the server.

We can judge a player during the training as it can show their quality in their roleplay,even if they make it up or stand out in the training,they still got the ability for people to trust them.Making police force,which a force that can greatly affects the server roleplay,should be well trained and able to communicate without any argument made through the radio which we are facing now.

[Welker]

+support. The police situation is becoming something of a chronic issue at this point. 

What I'd like to see is some actual consequences for demoted police, such as an In-Character blacklist for a short period. Perhaps a 'blacklist' that stacks if you're demoted multiple times over a period of a week.

Something needs to be done to buffer the lawlessness in the Government.

[Brin.]

-support

[Taylor]

+Support, providing any top positions are chosen due to bias

[Wesley Lawrence]

+support

[Ricky LaFleur]

+SUPPORT

without this system the server will not survive

[Ketchup]

We have /demote for a reason. This is a semi serious server and forcing people who just want to have a good time and RP as any goverment job go through training is more of something that you should be seeing on a seriousRP server and not a semi serious RP server.


-Support

[Soviethooves]

We have /demote for a reason. This is a semi serious server and forcing people who just want to have a good time and RP as any goverment job go through training is more of something that you should be seeing on a seriousRP server and not a semi serious RP server.


-Support

Then why not instead of a sort of training we have a ride-along where cadets or lower ranked officers have to learn from others on the job before getting the full set of gear? That way it isn’t a boring academy and we still have a manned PD?

Understand this is for the CONCEPT, so you are free to add your own idea.

[Soviethooves]

For the rest of this post, I'd like it to be known that "government" is addressing the following jobs: Police Officer, Police Chief, SWAT Unit, SWAT Commander, Paramedic, Fire Fighter, Fire Chief, Secret Service, President and anything else that can be considered "government" on the server.

Pros of whitelisting the government:

1. Improvement to quality of RP
   
2. Steer more towards a serious RP server
   
3. (Currently) limited slots mean less decent Gov RPers can have Gov slots when they want it
   
4. Less people abusing the police job as it could jeprodise their whitelist
   
5. Less unfair arrests
   

Cons of whitelisting the government:

1. People who enjoy semi-serious RP will likely leave, as it would involve them being whitelisted to play what might be their favourite role
   
2. People who haven't yet played the server and only enjoy police RP from, let's say, a previous city RP server, might see that the police job is whitelisted on a semi-serious RP server, then leave soon after
   
3. It would create a serious RP environment within the government, whereas we might not get have a serious RP environment in the underground jobs, which is the other half of the server more or less. This could create inbalances for a government-side heavy server
   
4. Possibility of having LESS Police Officers on at one time since there's less people to take up the role
   

I know I haven't covered everything in the list above, obviously, but if anyone makes any points I'll probably be adding to it to make a summary of it all.

In my opinion, I don't think the police force should be whitelisted. Currently, for misdemeanours, you have the Police Chief, the Vice President and the President to go complain to and have someone demoted in a matter of minutes. This alone is a deterrent for people to misbehave whilst on the force, however, this isn't very effective. A whitelist would definitely fix this issue. (Pro #4)

Steering towards a more serious RP server can be seen as a good and bad thing. For me, this is a pro, as long as it doesn't go too far. Some people enjoy serious RP, whereas some people enjoy less serious RP. If people enjoyed serious RP, why would they be on a semi-serious RP server? I think people like the sound of having Limelight become a serious RP server, just because they enjoy it. However, when it comes to the reality of it, having the systems how they are now is what makes Limelight, Limelight. It's the novelty that counts. How long until people who previously thought the whitelist was a good idea, begin to think the opposite? 

As it stands right now, people who might really want to be on the force, or in any Gov. role, might not be able to be. This could be because the government is filled with people with less than 50 Limelight hours, which is rather frustrating at times - mainly because people judge other people's RP abilities by their amount of Limelight hours, as if Limelight is the only RP server on Gmod ever. This is not the case. You might have really good RPers who want to join the police force, but can't because they don't meet the minimum amount of hours for the police force application. This, for obvious reasons, is an issue with implementing a whitelist.

No minimum hours were mentioned in this suggestion. If you can point out why that effects this suggestion and your opinion, I’d appreciate it.

Less unfair arrests. You'd obviously have less people shouting random arrest in chat, because you would have less police officers arresting people because they lose their temper. Sure, it's a human thing to do, but generally speaking, an officer who can't control himself will likely make arrests that later on, would not make sense to him/her. Randomly arresting a person would likely become an OOC thing and would become punishable by a temporary dewhitelisting. I'll talk more about this in the next paragraph.

Couldn't you say we already have a "whitelist" of some sort? I mean, in the form of blacklists, which by defintion, is the complete opposite of a whitelist. Think of it as the server giving people a chance to RP as a police officer and do it well. If they break the rules, they receive a blacklist, which is essentially just temporarily dewhitelisting them. Just a thought - do with it what you will.

Sadly, it is not the same. You’re still letting people who barely know how to be fair or play as government (people that heavily effect the whole server) run around with barely any restrictions and even with the rules in their favor. Blacklisting them only temporarily removes them from the job, where as removing their whitelist would lose their progress to any and all positions they had due to their actions.

It's gonna be a -Support from me. #forthemanynotthefew

Remember, you don’t need to make guesses of what a whitelisted Government will be as this is just to embrace the concept of it. You are free to suggest your own idea of one here to see if other support it.

[Ketchup]

We have /demote for a reason. This is a semi serious server and forcing people who just want to have a good time and RP as any goverment job go through training is more of something that you should be seeing on a seriousRP server and not a semi serious RP server.


-Support

Then why not instead of a sort of training we have a ride-along where cadets or lower ranked officers have to learn from others on the job before getting the full set of gear? That way it isn’t a boring academy and we still have a manned PD?

Understand this is for the CONCEPT, so you are free to add your own idea.

How about an auxilary officer job where all you get in terms of weaponry is an ASP Baton and maybe a taser then once you have reached a certain number of hours in that job you get access to the normal police officer job where you can access guns? Auxilary officers will not be responding to any firearm calls but may assist in cordoning off scenes of a traffic accident?

[Eclipze]

-Support

I believe restricting players from joining the police force (which is the most appreciated job) when they start out with low hours will make a lot of people not continue to play on the server. While I still believe there are a lot of nuts on this server who shouldn't play as police I dont believe we should restrict them. Who would handle all the applications that would come in everyday? How can the recruit team avoid any sort of corruption or favorising? So to say a friend with 1000 hours should have the same expectations as a player who they dont know with 100 hours.

[Soviethooves]

We have /demote for a reason. This is a semi serious server and forcing people who just want to have a good time and RP as any goverment job go through training is more of something that you should be seeing on a seriousRP server and not a semi serious RP server.


-Support

Then why not instead of a sort of training we have a ride-along where cadets or lower ranked officers have to learn from others on the job before getting the full set of gear? That way it isn’t a boring academy and we still have a manned PD?

Understand this is for the CONCEPT, so you are free to add your own idea.

How about an auxilary officer job where all you get in terms of weaponry is an ASP Baton and maybe a taser then once you have reached a certain number of hours in that job you get access to the normal police officer job where you can access guns? Auxilary officers will not be responding to any firearm calls but may assist in cordoning off scenes of a traffic accident?

That is actually close to the Cadet System idea. I personally think that type of system would work better than a straight up whitelist.