[Nudel]

I'm not going to be able to write anything descriptive till tommorow late afternoon as I am very busy url atm but I'll give you my response towards the us3 of the AWM

there was a discussion between myself and Nemesis thinking about how we want to do it the call sign was closing close and a proper choice wasn't made. Neme shoy first with a tranq and I had my AWM out at the time of the first shot with the tranq I waited before a lethal shit was fired in the general direction of a flock and then that was why I then used my awm in the end. I had both weapons out st the time but one or two shots if I rmeeber c9rrdctly were shot shortly.

Sent via.Mobile

You had an AWM equipped because your friend/leader got pulled over by the police? This shows me that there was no other intend than to kill officers which you did shortly after. There is no justification for killing officers in this situation.

I'll await further response as stated by you.

[Dick]

I'm not going to be able to write anything descriptive till tommorow late afternoon as I am very busy url atm but I'll give you my response towards the us3 of the AWM

there was a discussion between myself and Nemesis thinking about how we want to do it the call sign was closing close and a proper choice wasn't made. Neme shoy first with a tranq and I had my AWM out at the time of the first shot with the tranq I waited before a lethal shit was fired in the general direction of a flock and then that was why I then used my awm in the end. I had both weapons out st the time but one or two shots if I rmeeber c9rrdctly were shot shortly.

Sent via.Mobile

You had an AWM equipped because your friend/leader got pulled over by the police? This shows me that there was no other intend than to kill officers which you did shortly after. There is no justification for killing officers in this situation.

I'll await further response as stated by you.

No. I had a Tranq and an AWM at the time. I had the AWM out at the time of the callouts being discussed as myself and Nemesis were still talking about how we plan to do this. We were unable to plan fast enough so Nemesis started with the first shot. I did not fire my AWM at this time as I was only looking though the scope to observe how ForceGhost was going to leave and see if he required any assistance during this.

Glock shots were fired in the direction of Taco Bell towards myself and Nemesis and that is when I actually started using the rifle afterwards. With supported logs, I can ensure I had both equiped a Tranq Sniper and AWM at the scenario.

[Nudel]

I'm not going to be able to write anything descriptive till tommorow late afternoon as I am very busy url atm but I'll give you my response towards the us3 of the AWM

there was a discussion between myself and Nemesis thinking about how we want to do it the call sign was closing close and a proper choice wasn't made. Neme shoy first with a tranq and I had my AWM out at the time of the first shot with the tranq I waited before a lethal shit was fired in the general direction of a flock and then that was why I then used my awm in the end. I had both weapons out st the time but one or two shots if I rmeeber c9rrdctly were shot shortly.

Sent via.Mobile

You had an AWM equipped because your friend/leader got pulled over by the police? This shows me that there was no other intend than to kill officers which you did shortly after. There is no justification for killing officers in this situation.

I'll await further response as stated by you.

No. I had a Tranq and an AWM at the time. I had the AWM out at the time of the callouts being discussed as myself and Nemesis were still talking about how we plan to do this. We were unable to plan fast enough so Nemesis started with the first shot. I did not fire my AWM at this time as I was only looking though the scope to observe how ForceGhost was going to leave and see if he required any assistance during this.

Glock shots were fired in the direction of Taco Bell towards myself and Nemesis and that is when I actually started using the rifle afterwards. With supported logs, I can ensure I had both equiped a Tranq Sniper and AWM at the scenario.

I still fail to see how your actions were justified.

[Overlewd]

We have always been strict on people entering shootouts with the police over "my friend is getting arrested", especially in situations where it might not even be a long arrest for a serious crime. Others have been punished before for shooting upon cops who have their friends detained while possessing insufficient information. Now, if this was a cunning tranq-everyone-and-make-a-clean-getaway situation, I'd be all for it, cool. But it is entirely obvious that as soon as you try to tranq someone, the police will start firing back at you. If that instantly grants you a kill reason, then the only thing people will need to do to have justified kill reasons in these situations is pretend like they care by firing the first shot with a nonlethal weapon and then switching back to a lethal weapon when the retaliation inevitably happens.

Now I haven't reviewed the damage logs and stuff fully yet so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the first person who died to the AWM was Nudel, who was also the first person to get tranq'd. If you got fired upon by other cops which made you return fire, why make it your first priority to execute a downed police officer instead of making a getaway or shooting at the other officers who actually pose a threat at that moment?

[Nudel]

We have always been strict on people entering shootouts with the police over "my friend is getting arrested", especially in situations where it might not even be a long arrest for a serious crime. Others have been punished before for shooting upon cops who have their friends detained while possessing insufficient information. Now, if this was a cunning tranq-everyone-and-make-a-clean-getaway situation, I'd be all for it, cool. But it is entirely obvious that as soon as you try to tranq someone, the police will start firing back at you. If that instantly grants you a kill reason, then the only thing people will need to do to have justified kill reasons in these situations is pretend like they care by firing the first shot with a nonlethal weapon and then switching back to a lethal weapon when the retaliation obviously happens.

Now I haven't reviewed the damage logs and all the tools fully yet so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the first person who died to the AWM was Nudel, who was also the first person to get tranq'd. If you got fired upon by other cops which made you return fire, why make it your first priority to execute a downed police officer instead of making a getaway or shooting at the other officers who actually pose a threat at that moment?

From what I remember there wasn't a single shot fired after I got tranq'd and killed (I could be wrong with that). As I got tranqed I shouted via the radio and was able to do a /panic and that's it. Everyone tried to search for cover.

[Dick]

We have always been strict on people entering shootouts with the police over "my friend is getting arrested", especially in situations where it might not even be a long arrest for a serious crime. Others have been punished before for shooting upon cops who have their friends detained while possessing insufficient information. Now, if this was a cunning tranq-everyone-and-make-a-clean-getaway situation, I'd be all for it, cool. But it is entirely obvious that as soon as you try to tranq someone, the police will start firing back at you. If that instantly grants you a kill reason, then the only thing people will need to do to have justified kill reasons in these situations is pretend like they care by firing the first shot with a nonlethal weapon and then switching back to a lethal weapon when the retaliation inevitably happens.

Now I haven't reviewed the damage logs and stuff fully yet so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the first person who died to the AWM was Nudel, who was also the first person to get tranq'd. If you got fired upon by other cops which made you return fire, why make it your first priority to execute a downed police officer instead of making a getaway or shooting at the other officers who actually pose a threat at that moment?

I believe Nudel was the first one to get tranq'd and once he was down officers were moving towards the vehicles for protection. I assume, that shots fired were more for covering fire but of course, I am not exactly sure. I did shoot towards one of the ones shooting back at the time, hitting the Tahoe's hit box and as I had two shots in the sniper, I used the second one thinking to prevent the officer from supporting the others with shooting which lead to why Nudel was executed at the time.

[Mohammad Albingy]

We have always been strict on people entering shootouts with the police over "my friend is getting arrested", especially in situations where it might not even be a long arrest for a serious crime. Others have been punished before for shooting upon cops who have their friends detained while possessing insufficient information. Now, if this was a cunning tranq-everyone-and-make-a-clean-getaway situation, I'd be all for it, cool. But it is entirely obvious that as soon as you try to tranq someone, the police will start firing back at you. If that instantly grants you a kill reason, then the only thing people will need to do to have justified kill reasons in these situations is pretend like they care by firing the first shot with a nonlethal weapon and then switching back to a lethal weapon when the retaliation inevitably happens.

Now I haven't reviewed the damage logs and stuff fully yet so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the first person who died to the AWM was Nudel, who was also the first person to get tranq'd. If you got fired upon by other cops which made you return fire, why make it your first priority to execute a downed police officer instead of making a getaway or shooting at the other officers who actually pose a threat at that moment?

Can i just ask then what are we supposed to do in the situation like we had when for some reason there was the whole cop force and the SRU arresting our friend and even with 2 tranq rifles its kinda impossible to hit them all and after we fire the first shot they 100% will use lethals back.. are we supposed to just run off or what because it seems to me that using lethal force back is the only option here especially when you are as out numbered as we where... if they started chasing with tasers then fair enough but SRU's presence only meant 1 thing lethals... so it seems to me that our hands where forced into using lethal force back but would just like you to clarify for me if at all possible. @Overlewd

[Overlewd]

Well, in a situation where you are severely outnumbered the reasonable RP thing to do would be not to initiate any conflict at all.

And yet another reason to try make absolutely sure your friend is actually getting arrested. One of the checks in the checklist of going-to-potentially-get-arrested is being handcuffed.

Also you are supposed to try. You've only ever hit one person with a tranq in the whole shootout, and it is not more difficult to hit someone with a tranq than an awm. After tranqing, you could have attempted a getaway. If you genuinely try and escape and can't then using lethal force then would be more appropriate.

[Overlewd]

Approved.

To all of the accused in this situation (ForceGhost, Sours, Nemesis), it was not entirely reasonable to initiate an aggressive response there. There weren't even any handcuffs on Force and he wasn't being told he was being arrested yet. I expect better from experienced players such as yourselves than to act on assumptions in situations like these. Consider this a warning.

Additionally, Sours, as the only person of the accused who used a lethal weapon to kill/injure multiple police officers (without actually tranqing anyone), will receive a weapons blacklist.

In short, you should have waited until it was certain ForceGhost was going to be arrested on a serious and/or clearly invalid charge. In the situation that presented itself, given that you acted prematurely, using lethal force against police officers is not appropriate. Attempting to use nonlethal means first and then switching to lethal right away because you were being shot at is not an excuse in the given situtation (no getaway effort made, no further people attempted to be tranq'd by sours at sniper distance).