[Soviethooves]

Name of Player: [L²:RP] Elliot

SteamID:

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STEAM_0:1:98250784

Server: EU Rockford

Time: (In UTC+0): Unknown

Summary: Fearp | Possible scamming (Asking Edge to kill me, but when the time comes, Elliot says it's a joke. Didn't pay the hitman either prior to the actual situation.)

A summary of the situation is Elliot hired Edge to kill me as I had previously insulted and demoted him out of the PD (All IC and it seems he was getting me mad on purpose calling me childish, saying that's how people my age act, etc.) 

Anywho, I offer to pay Edge double to help me ambush Elliot and let Edge kill him. 

As we are PMing him that we want him to watch the execution, he says it was a joke and seems off that Edge was actually going to do it (Which isn't hard to believe. The PM's sound real (They're below)).

After convincing Ellio that Edge is actually doing it, he shows up, and we begin to try and setup the execution of him. We go OOC for a second and then continue. At this point, Elliot starts walking off. In the video evidence below, you can see me getting out my taser and begin to tell him to stop moving and tell him he is under Taser Point. He ignores me and gets into his car and drives off where I try to kill him as a last resort.

Evidence:

@Edge's Evidence of the PM Covnersation (Edge is the Anarchist that was hired.)

BOLD TEXT is ELLIOT

(PM)  [L²:RP] Elliot: I want somebody killed
(PM)  To [L²:RP] Elliot: do you really cool who?
(PM)  [L²:RP] Elliot: The Police SGT 'Gungranny'
(PM)  To [L²:RP] Elliot: $15,000 for this job. It is the seargeant after all
(PM)  [L²:RP] Elliot: I pay you after you've killed him.
(PM)  [L²:RP] Elliot: It's not a scam, scams are against the rules so you can report me if I
don't pay you
(PM)  To [L²:RP] Elliot: I have him here at 11 Richard Drive. He's cuffed and ready to
die, you pay me before he dies.
(PM)  [L²:RP] Elliot: Omw
(PM)  [L²:RP] Elliot: Psst - I know it's a trap xD
(PM)  [L²:RP] Elliot: I was only joking 
(PM)  To [L²:RP] Elliot: what?
(PM)  To [L²:RP] Elliot: Are you coming, I have him here..
(PM)  [L²:RP] Elliot: Fine, but I was joking
(PM)  To [L²:RP] Elliot: Are you coming.
 Aztec 'Marty' Camera: Do it 
 Aztec 'Marty' Camera: I was joking
 Aztec 'Marty' Camera: Yes but I am a mechanic 
 Aztec 'Marty' Camera: I thought he realised
 Aztec 'Marty' Camera: I have PMd 26

Video Evidence (Unedited 5 Minutes.) (FEARP IS AT 4:17): 

[Limelight Gaming]

Thank you for your player-report, Gungranny.

It will take a while for it to be reviewed by our staff-members.
Meanwhile, the accused player and witnesses may reply to this report.

[Soviethooves]

Would also like to point out, Elliot seems to be making me get mad on purpose.

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OOC Proof ^

[Cole]

Can confirm he was deliberately making him mad, I physically had to demote Elliot from SWAT as Elliot proceeded to intentionally destroy evidence after being warned multiple times not to by Gungranny.

-- Not involved in the original PR reason but involved in the reason Gungranny stated in a reply (I was the President at the time) --

[Elliot]

Alas - I can upload my evidence.

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As you can see (3:01) onwards. At no point was I aware of guns/tasers being pointed at me, by the time I was made aware. I was already travelling at a considerable speed away from the scene. I left the house at a moment where 0 members of the party had any form of weapon unholstered, or were using it in a way by which to prevent me from leaving. 

It can also be noted that at first I presumed it was the assailant shooting me, rather than a member of Law Enforcement. As a firearm must only be discharged as a last resort when the officer is in direct danger, considering I was fleeing the scene at speed in a vehicle, travelling in the opposite direction to the Officer. Both forms of video-graphic evidence prove that the officer's life was not endangered and the discharge of the firearm towards myself was unjust. 

As well as the above regarding the firearms discharge. Connotations can also be made regarding scamming. As I was assured a service would be carried out by Edge in return for $15,000 (In-Game). Whereas infant that service would not be carried out. So Edge had scammed me by promising me a service and then failing to pursue when accepting a further $30,000 from the other player.

I look forward to your replies.

Thank you both for your continued co-operation.


Cheers,
Elliot.

[Edge]

Elliot, I find it bizarre how you can say you were "unaware." Yes, both guns were lowered in the house, but once you started leaving, even in your own video, Gungranny repeated, "don't move, don't move." and said, "you're under tazer.". Even if you didn't see the weapon if an officer says don't move, I personally, wouldn't move. Even so, if you didn't realise, you saw him. I have a screenshot from your evidence showing that on your screen you would have been able to see him with the tazer before you moved at "considerable speed". Also, Gungranny opened fire onto your car whilst it was moving from rest, not at "considerable speed". You broke FearRP.

Although you didn't actually scam me, you had intent to. How am I supposed to know that it was a joke? The PM's show that you wanted someone killed, I agreed and you told me who it was. At no point was there any suggestion that it was a joke. Your defence that "I'm a mechanic.", isn't a defence. How am I supposed to know purely from Private Messages, that you were a mechanic? I never met you in person, nor did you ever say that you were a mechanic. The only way I would have found out was if I opened the Player List, found your name and looked at your job, which isn't good RP.


Thanks
Edge

[Elliot]

Hello Edge,

Thank you for sharing your comment with us all, we appreciate your input.

After 4 attempts, I managed to pause the YouTube video on the only frame where a taser was shown, I then timed the duration of time that the taser was shown on the screen, the time in question was 0.51 seconds.

After some research, the reaction time of an average human from a visual imperative is 0.25 seconds. That's how long it takes your brain to realise that you have seen something. After a little more research, the average reaction time to actually 'react' to something by moving a muscle (e.g pressing E to exit the vehicle) is 0.36 seconds. I saved you the difficult job of adding those 2 numbers together - the answer being 0.61 seconds.

At this point I reached the following conclusion; I simply would not have had the time to physically react to seeing that taser for such a short period of time, considering I was also concentrating on escaping.

Thank you,
Elliot.

[Soviethooves]

Alas - I can upload my evidence.

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As you can see (3:01) onwards. At no point was I aware of guns/tasers being pointed at me, by the time I was made aware. I was already travelling at a considerable speed away from the scene. I left the house at a moment where 0 members of the party had any form of weapon unholstered, or were using it in a way by which to prevent me from leaving. 

 You can see in my evidence I am right behind you with a taser and in yours, you can hear me right behind you warning you...I even notified you what I was pointing at you so you couldn't use the excuse "I didn't see it, so it isn't Fearp."

It can also be noted that at first I presumed it was the assailant shooting me, rather than a member of Law Enforcement. As a firearm must only be discharged as a last resort when the officer is in direct danger, considering I was fleeing the scene at speed in a vehicle, travelling in the opposite direction to the Officer. Both forms of video-graphic evidence prove that the officer's life was not endangered and the discharge of the firearm towards myself was unjust. 

This was a situation involving corruption and your intended execution by a hitman. I wasn't going to let you get away and tell my superiors.

As well as the above regarding the firearms discharge. Connotations can also be made regarding scamming. As I was assured a service would be carried out by Edge in return for $15,000 (In-Game). Whereas infant that service would not be carried out. So Edge had scammed me by promising me a service and then failing to pursue when accepting a further $30,000 from the other player.

He never scammed you. Neither of you gave the other party anything for services or goods, so no scamming involved. The only way it COULD be scamming is by you having placed a hit on me and then when you find out it was actually done, would say it was a joke and not pay the player.

I look forward to your replies.

Thank you both for your continued co-operation.


Cheers,
Elliot.

[Elliot]

Hello Gungranny,

Thank you very much for your swift response, it was a fantastic read.

Firstly, I would just like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on noticing that in your video-graphic evidence you could see the taser you were holding, because of course - you were holding it. Unfortunately, I was facing the other way. And at this point in time I have not developed eyes in the rear of my head, so I could not see the taser you were pointing at me. If your schedule allows you, please read rule 2.1 (Titled FearRP). It states that FearRP only counts if the user in question can see the weapon. Which, I obviously couldn't. As well as that - you were wielding a taser, which discharges a small plastic stud containing an electrical charge carried via wire from the taser gun. Unless you were planning on a tasing my passenger's side window. Sadly, it was not going to work. 

As I am solely focusing on the FearRP side of your reply, I shan't delve into the scamming side at this moment in time.

Thank you once again,
Elliot.

[Soviethooves]

Hello Gungranny,

Thank you very much for your swift response, it was a fantastic read.

Firstly, I would just like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on noticing that in your video-graphic evidence you could see the taser you were holding, because of course - you were holding it. Unfortunately, I was facing the other way. And at this point in time I have not developed eyes in the rear of my head, so I could not see the taser you were pointing at me. If your schedule allows you, please read rule 2.1 (Titled FearRP). It states that FearRP only counts if the user in question can see the weapon. Which, I obviously couldn't. As well as that - you were wielding a taser, which discharges a small plastic stud containing an electrical charge carried via wire from the taser gun. Unless you were planning on a tasing my passenger's side window. Sadly, it was not going to work. 

As I am solely focusing on the FearRP side of your reply, I shan't delve into the scamming side at this moment in time.

Thank you once again,
Elliot.

So, you not being wary of your surroundings allows you to break server rules? I feel doubtful of that. Also, the only weapon that can be voided while in a car is melee weapons. last time I checked, tasers are not melee weapons, but rather projectiles. 

Not to mention:

2.1 - You are considered to be under FearRP when you are in line of sight of a visibly armed person, who is within microphone range of you and is able to harm your character at that moment. You must act afraid of armed people and life-threatening situations. You must follow the orders of the person(s) who have you under FearRP, you may not draw a weapon on them, attack them, or run away from them. FearRP applies to melee weapons if you are within striking range, but not if you are in a vehicle. 

You are not under FearRP if you are also visibly armed. Visibly armed in the context of this rule means that you have your weapon out and in your hands, regardless of safety mode.  (Not involved with our situation as you were not armed)

You are not considered visibly armed when you are seated in a vehicle, regardless of whether you are holding a weapon in hand or not. If someone switches from a gun to handcuffs/rope to detain you, FearRP still applies. (Not involved with our situation as you were not armed)

Now, reading this, where does it say you (the victim) need to see me (the assaulter)? It says, very detailed that "You are considered to be under FearRP when you are in line of sight of a visibly armed person, who is within microphone range of you and is able to harm your character at that moment." So, as long as I have you within my line of sight and am within range to cause harm to you, you are under Fearp. No exception to your view. This is why I told you to stop and even notified you of what I was pointing. 

This is my last comment on the matter as this is frankly silly, and would rather just see a staff member make a note on this.

[Night]

Elliot, the points that you're bringing up really concern me.

You state that you weren't aware of the guns being drawn. Whilst it does show in your POV video that you didn't see that, you DID however notice @"Gungranny"'s voicemeter going off. If you hear "don't move, don't move" in a rather aggressive tone like that, do you not think it'd be a smart idea to stop? I must remind you that FearRP applies within microphone's radius, so whilst you're able to hear him, you should of really complied with his instructions.

Now on to the more difficult part of this case - the scamming element. I'll be addressing both the accused and the accuser(s) in this, as I'm not too sure what happened to lead up to this, as not enough context has been provided.

@"Gungranny", were you, at the time, roleplaying as corrupt at all? What led to you finding out that Elliot had hired Edge to kill you? Could you provide further context into how this all happened?

@Elliot, why would you *joke around* with a Hitman of all people? I could argue that's FailRP as most people would be able to realise that messing with a Hitman the wrong way will never end well for them. Why did you defer the payment, rather than being upfront with it? I'd also like you to address the screenshot which was posted just below the original post.

[Elliot]

Hello Nightmare,

Thank you for taking some time from your schedule to post a reply on my PR.

I appreciate the fact that FearRP is a rule, although I am well aware I did not break the rule. I do believe the rule needs to have some alterations made to it, for instance - FearRP is a rule that - generalises fear. So it tells all the users on a server 'You MUST be scared of X, Y and Z. If you are not scared of these - you will be punished.' Everybody's fear levels are different, some people are scared of some things, some people are scared of other things... It's not something that can be generalised. For instance, in a situation that I was faced with, in real life (Which is what you're trying to replicate on the server). You would have a 'fight or flight' hormone, so you either give in - retaliate, or run away. I chose to run away, I was running as fast as I could away from danger, so when I heard the words 'stop stop I have a taser' as I was very close to my car, I would continue running - as I wasn't a million miles away from my desired escape method. So personally, the FearRP rule needs changing for occasions like this, where it makes the server seem less realistic than it actually is...

Just a notation - I am not delving into the scamming part of things, I am just solely focusing on the alleged FearRP section, cheers.

Thank you all once again for your continued co-operation.

Regards,
Elliot.

[Night]

Respectfully, I'd like you to delve into whatever I ask you to explain so I can get the full picture of what's happening here.

I understand your reasoning behind your post, but our gamemode isn't designed to be an exact replica of real life. The FearRP rule is worded in such a way so that proper RP can happen, rather than having people run away at any given opportunity, ruining it for the opposing party. Your most recent punishment from Daley, BanID 6301 which was issued just around two weeks ago, shows me that you may not understand FearRP as well as I'd hope you to at this point.

Sure, in real life, we'd have our fight or flight response, but whilst your on the server, we need to find a level playing field where players are able to roleplay properly without having situations ruined by incidents similar to this, which is why FearRP is in place.

I'd like your clarification on my previous questions, as well as your statement on the screenshot provided by Gungranny as soon as you can please.

[Elliot]

Hello,

I am now going to move on to the accused scamming. At the point where I was driving up to the house, I already knew it was a trap. Hence the PM that I sent him, on arrival - I was asked to close the door, I went to close the door - and then weapons were drawn on me. For starters, he had not killed Gungranny. So I was not obliged to pay him, as I was paying for Gungranny to be killed, not just captured. And if I did pay - Gungranny had already paid $30,000 for Edge to kill me, so regardless of the fact I paid or not - Gungranny had already given Edge money to kill me, rather than himself being killed. So in reality - Edge was scamming me. Because if I would've given him the money, he would've accepted it and still killed me, as he had been paid by Gungranny to do so, If need be I shall file my own separate PR against Edge for scamming, but fortunately - I am not that petty.

And the screenshot shows me stating what I had done, as I had caused him to be 'triggered' on 2 separate, mostly unintentional, but RP situations. Not OOC.

Thank you,
Elliot.

[Soviethooves]

I found out Edge was hired to kill me after offering double what Elliot was paying right before Edge could execute me. At that, me and Ellio had a bit of a history, so I saw an opportunity to end it IC.

I would also like to note that the second time he made me mad, was very obviously intentional. As SWAT, he decided to join my traffic stop, jump in the suspect’s back trunk, and start wacking all of the contraband. Through all of this and before, I repeatedly asked and started ordering SWAT to stand down. He only stopped once Cole demoted him. I don’t think it was unintentional at all as alos in the first time he made me “mad”, you can find PM’s of him saying he pissed me off on purpose so I would demote him from his PD position (While I was police sergeant)