[Nudel]

Unblacklist Request - @"Nudelsalat im Panzer" 

Blacklisted by @Bambo 

Your Name: [L²:RP] Nudelsalat im Panzer

Issued by: Please include the [L²]/[L²:M] tag. [L²:M] Bambo

Blacklist ID: 72287

Server: EU Rockford v2 - Main roleplay server 

Why should you be unblacklisted?: First... I see PR's not getting answered for days and of course a PR against me is getting directly approved. It's unbelievable that I am not even able to answer and give my view of the situation. I already had the exact same thing with an In-Game blacklist where I directly got blacklisted without even getting spoken too. I got un-blacklisted after I made a UBL which shows that speaking with BOTH sides first makes sense. ( Other UBL )
I really see this unfair against my side and would like to not see it another time. Two time's are enough, realy.

To the situation itself: I spawned as a SSA the police made reports about multiple armed man at the presidential house at richard drive. I spawned my limousine and directly drove to there.
As I drove around the corner at richard drive I heard multiple shots and saw a white dodge Monaco driving trough the scene which seems like he was one of the suspects and evading. This seemed so as no citizen would drive trough the middle of a gun fight.
As he directly crashed into the limousine I stepped out of the limousine and told him to go out of his vehicle (Bambo mentioned it so: "He crashed into the pole when the Limo rammed into him"  - As It can be clearly seen in the video, Goigle crashed into the limousine, not me into him which just supports my view of him being one of the "evil" people at the situation if he is crashing into a gov. vehicle from this grade)
As I taught he was one of the heavily armed suspects and he even refused to stop I started shooting at him. I could not have known that he is unarmed. It is his own fault to drive trough the mid of a gun fight. As he even refused to stop whilst I was shooting at his vehicle I kept firing on his vehicle. He was a threat in my eyes which is 100% justified.

@goigle 

I did not stop for Nudel is because the police were actively shooting at my car and I was trying to avoid dying
Why do you even drive away if you haven't done anything?

@Bambo 

He crashed into the pole when the Limo rammed into him
It can be clearly seen in the video that he rammed into the limousine.

Which does seem like it was intentional and trying to block the car.
I was driving pretty fast and took a left to help in the raid, I never attempted to block the car. If I would have tried to block it, I would have blocked the street.

...if you roll up into a gunfight or car chase with the Limo it's not acceptable
"Rolling up" into a gunfight? I was responding to multiple calls about shooting/a raid at the presidential house, should I walk? I never took part in any "chases".

He was being chased but at no point posed a threat and thus the Excessive Usage of Lethal Force
He was driving trough the mid of a gun fight. I could not know if he is a part of it or not. I mentioned in my main post that it looked like he was evading from the situation.

you emptied your gun at him when he wasn't really a danger, if you are to say he rammed into the Limo, the driver did drive in front of him and it wasn't Goigle's fault.
As said above, I shot him because he was a possible part of the raid (evading stuff). He was not listening to my orders to step out of the vehicle.

Evidence: /

[Limelight Gaming]

The staff-members have received your unblacklist-request, Nudelsalat im Panzer.

It will take a while for it to be reviewed.

[Bambo]

Alright, I do see your point about acting without waiting for your response, however, the situation was pretty clear.



Here, you were driving in the wrong side with a long vehicle while he is in the correct lane. Your vehicle is long and intentional or not did cut him off resulting in him running into your car. This is the only dangerous action shown in the video. Him not listening to you is totally understandable as you can see in the video he was getting shot at. 

I do believe Goigle was not a threat and he was only trying to escape the potential threat. You acted too fast.

Assuming he might be dangerous is not enough. Police or Government do not shoot down people who might have weaponary before they confirm it.

[Nudel]

Bambo

I do believe Goigle was not a threat and he was only trying to escape the potential threat.
Why would you drive into a gun fight and then want to "escape a threat"? He literally just entered one. If he was not a threat why were the officer's shooting his vehicle then?

Assuming he might be dangerous is not enough.
As the police was shooting on him I could have seen him as a danger.

[Nudel]

I would like to request the full video from @goigle to see why the officer started shooting. I do not think that Goigle only recorded 14 seconds.

[Nudel]

Police or Government do not shoot down people who might have weaponary before they confirm it.

Other law enforcement officers already opened fire at the vehicle which shows me that he is a threat.

[Bambo]

Bambo

I do believe Goigle was not a threat and he was only trying to escape the potential threat.
Why would you drive into a gun fight and then want to "escape a threat"? He literally just entered one. If he was not a threat why were the officer's shooting his vehicle then?

Assuming he might be dangerous is not enough.
As the police was shooting on him I could have seen him as a danger.

The threat he was trying to escape entered after he entered that street. @Wesley Lawrence said he fired a warning shot, it wasn't a whole clip. You emptied your weapon onto him. If he was indeed a serious threat that immediate action required , why didn't the officer continue the shooting after 2 bullets? There really is no need for a longer video, as you couldn't hear the shots or know of the situation to cause you to shoot.

You just arrived onto the scene, you couldn't know he was getting shot at. Like I said, assumptions are not enough. You, assuming he was dangerous while he wasn't in combat at all, or when he wasn't confirmed to be dangerous, is not a reason to unload a whole mag on him.

Him driving near that street should not be a reason for you to shoot at him, him ramming into your car should not be a reason to shoot at him. Anything else, you couldn't know due to you just arriving and hearing stuff over the radio.

If there is an active robbery in a bank, with shots coming and going and a vehicle drives by do you shoot the driver because he might be involved, do you attempt to detain him or do you request him to move on?

Even if he was fleeing, he posed no visual threat and as an SSA, your job is to protect the president not stop a fleeing vehicle. If the president's life is at danger, one speeding and potentially fleeing car shouldn't be your priority, you should have called it in and ran into to secure the president.

Police or Government do not shoot down people who might have weaponary before they confirm it.

Other law enforcement officers already opened fire at the vehicle which shows me that he is a threat.

It is highly unlikely for you to know that as you were just arriving and it didn't happen right before your eyes.

[Wesley Lawrence]

Hello,

It seems that I was tagged in this, so I will at least give my point of view.

During the actual call-out, assassination attempts were being carried out on the President and Vice-President.
Over the radio we started to get descriptions of subjects around the area, vehicles sighted, as well as them being armed and dangerous. I responded code 3 (optical and acoustic) and soon found myself to be in the suburban area.

Now, at the time of attempting a stop on a person that was marked as someone involved in the assassination attempts, I did not see whether or not @goigle was armed or unarmed as he ran for his vehicle which wasn't far away from himself. The reason I started firing warning shots at his vehicle is because he ran off as soon as I pulled up and shouted ''POLICE, DON'T MOVE''.

As seen from the footage given on the PR against Nudelsalat, the sentence was cut off a bit and I think it had something to do with the range VoIP reaches out to and thus I didn't want to engage into lethal actions because of that.

I decided to pop a few warnings shots towards his vehicle in the hopes that he would come to a complete stop for me to catch up to him and detain him for aforementioned reasons. If I, at that point, had figured out he would be unarmed, I would have released him from custody again. If I wanted to take him down in a lethal way at that point of time (which wouldn't have been necessary) I would have done so. I simply had all the chances to do so, but it wasn't required.

That is my point of view on why I discharged a few rounds from my firearm.

[goigle]

As I taught he was one of the heavily armed suspects and he even refused to stop I started shooting at him. I could not have known that he is unarmed. It is his own fault to drive trough the mid of a gun fight. As he even refused to stop whilst I was shooting at his vehicle I kept firing on his vehicle. He was a threat in my eyes which is 100% justified.

First of all, I don't know what gun fight you were talking about. The only shots that were being fired were from Wesley. I believe at the time @SourLemon was detained at gun point by other police and he was detained without any shots being fired.

The reason I drove toward the president's house is because my car was already parked in that direction. I technically did hit your limo, but you were on the complete wrong side of the road. I did not even really notice you because of the trees, had I seen you earlier I would have hopped the curb to avoid you.

You did not even open fire until I was a good distance down the road. There was no reason to open fire on me.

@goigle 

I did not stop for Nudel is because the police were actively shooting at my car and I was trying to avoid dying
Why do you even drive away if you haven't done anything?

If you read the sentence before that, your question would have been answered. Here's the full quote from the PR

I was fleeing because there was confusion about another person raiding the president (@SourLemon) who was armed (which is why the police were responding) and I knew they would detain and likely arrest me because they had been arresting us for flimsy reasons earlier (which is part of the reason for the raid). The reason I did not stop for Nudel is because the police were actively shooting at my car and I was trying to avoid dying

Police or Government do not shoot down people who might have weaponary before they confirm it.

Other law enforcement officers already opened fire at the vehicle which shows me that he is a threat.

Then why did you wait so long to shoot me? I'd understand if you shot me down while Wesley was still shooting me, but you did not.



Here's a clip from a little before. It shows that there were no shots fired before I was driving:




If this was a lone incident I would not have posted a PR but you were being incredibly aggressive the whole time. Others in our group said you shot them while they were unarmed and then you kept doing it and I finally got a video.

Edit:
I'm trying to find the exact location in the video (its 3+ hours of recording), but I found one of our guys mentioning it in chat:



Edit 2: I found the exact point in the video where Nudel blatantly guns down an unarmed person, clipping and uploading

[goigle]

Alright, here it is. In this video Nudel guns down @Agorith who is not armed and is just standing there. Audio is muted cause music was playing and I don't want a copyright strike on my channel.

You can pretty clearly see that Nudel can see that he has no gun. Not only are Agorith's arms down, but Nudel has a clear view of his back and should have seen there is no gun.







Let me reiterate: these are the only 2 killings I had good video of. Nudel had 3 or 4 kills on the scoreboard (most other cops had 0, a couple had 1). The only way to get those kills is by shooting people out of cars or killing bodies on the ground (injuring people does not count). While he may have thought I was armed in the first one, there is no reason for him to have shot down Agorith. Nudel is way too lethal as a cop.

[Nudel]

If you read the sentence before that, your question would have been answered. Here's the full quote from the PR

I still do not see the point of you driving away even if you "fear to get arrested". If you haven't done anything nobody would have arrested you.

Then why did you wait so long to shoot me? I'd understand if you shot me down while Wesley was still shooting me, but you did not.

It can be clearly seen that just arrived as you passed/rammed my limousine.

If this was a lone incident I would not have posted a PR but you were being incredibly aggressive the whole time. Others in our group said you shot them while they were unarmed and then you kept doing it and I finally got a video.

Edit:
I'm trying to find the exact location in the video (its 3+ hours of recording), but I found one of our guys mentioning it in chat:

This was a complete different situation. Make a different PR if you want to. I even spoke to Agorith via pm after that. He was looking the same as you guys were looking. He was standing right next to you whilst you were shooting on multiple police officers without any reason at all. I would've called an EMS but unfortunaly you killed all the officers around. You were shooting us all the evening as anarchist with a job name "anti-fascists". I do not see how this is valid as I got warned days before that I am not allowed to do so even with a different job name in the anarchist job. Before this situation you and your peeps hostaged me and Wesley. You directly shot Wesley to death and killed me after it in the FD.

Let me reiterate: these are the only 2 killings I had good video of. Nudel had 3 or 4 kills on the scoreboard (most other cops had 0, a couple had 1). The only way to get those kills is by shooting people out of cars or killing bodies on the ground (injuring people does not count). While he may have thought I was armed in the first one, there is no reason for him to have shot down Agorith. Nudel is way too lethal as a cop.

I was online the whole day. Me, Blazing and Slowkiller had a fight with some officers hours before (as I remember) as we were roleplaying as a criminal group. Both can confirm that.

[Nudel]

Nudel is way too lethal as a cop.

And you were not too aggressive in your anarchist job? You killed the whole government multiple times, even raided the police department right after killing me and Wesley.

Unfortunaly I do not have recordings of you making that but the logs will show it.

[goigle]

I still do not see the point of you driving away even if you "fear to get arrested". If you haven't done anything nobody would have arrested you.

I'm going to say this again: you guys were arresting us and detaining us for flimsy reasons. I did not want to risk the dictator ordering my execution for being associated with sour even though I was not armed.

This was a complete different situation. Make a different PR if you want to.He was looking the same as you guys were looking. He was standing right next to you whilst you were shooting on multiple police officers without any reason at all. I would've called an EMS but unfortunaly you killed all the officers around. You were shooting us all the evening as anarchist with a job name "anti-fascists".

It is a different situation but the point is the same: you were shooting unarmed people without cause. I did not start the shooting in the situation you are talking about. Regardless of whether or not you PMed Agorith you had no reason to kill him. There were people shooting, but he had his arms down and no gun out and you were coming from behind. You could have told him to get on the ground or done a variety of other things but you came in running and gunning. Additionally, no one was shooting besides you at that time. Sour was hiding in the bus stop to avoid getting hit by the SWAT van and I was in the tahoe. You could have waited to get better situational awareness but you decided to just shoot the nearest hooded guy in sight.

I do not see how this is valid as I got warned days before that I am not allowed to do so even with a different job name in the anarchist job. Before this situation you and your peeps hostaged me and Wesley. You directly shot Wesley to death and killed me after it in the FD.

I neither shot nor killed Wesley in that situation. That was sour. We killed you because you arrested us multiple times for flimsy reasons and beat us in prison multiple times and neither the sergeant nor the president would listen to us about you.

And you were not too aggressive in your anarchist job? You killed the whole government multiple times, even raided the police department right after killing me and Wesley.

We raided the PD to take out a dictator, that's why Sour was at the suburbs. You're also comparing criminals to cops. Also, with the exception of you when we brought you to the EMS building, we did not kill any unarmed cops OR any cops in cars that were fleeing. We were doing aggressive RP, but you were by far more hostile and more aggressive as an individual.

For the record, I started only one of the shootouts and that was the raid (which the entire group technically started).

[Nudel]

It is a different situation but the point is the same: you were shooting unarmed people without cause. I did not start the shooting in the situation you are talking about. Regardless of whether or not you PMed Agorith you had no reason to kill him. There were people shooting, but he had his arms down and no gun out and you were coming from behind. You could have told him to get on the ground or done a variety of other things but you came in running and gunning.

Agorith got in the injured state. I did not killed him.

I neither shot nor killed Wesley in that situation. That was sour. We killed you because you arrested us multiple times for flimsy reasons and beat us in prison multiple times and neither the sergeant nor the president would listen to us about you.

First: That is NOT a reason to kill the whole Government including not involved officers.
Second: As you said "would" I assume you never tried it. I got blacklisted as I used force instead of trying to speak to the president (doing nearly the exact same thing). This point is 100% invalid and should get yourself into problems and not me. @"Nightmare" was the staff member which blacklisted me.

We raided the PD to take out a dictator, that's why Sour was at the suburbs. You're also comparing criminals to cops. Also, with the exception of you when we brought you to the EMS building, we did not kill any unarmed cops OR any cops in cars that were fleeing. We were doing aggressive RP, but you were by far more hostile and more aggressive as an individual.

D3ST was a democratic president first. He changed to dictator 2 minutes before I changed to SSA. As far as I remember he was a normal president at the time you raided the PD.
The situation at the PD was at least 10 minutes before the situation at the suburbans.
Instead you walked up the PD and killed everyone inside.

[goigle]

Agorith got in the injured state. I did not killed him.

That's just a loophole. You directly caused his death because no medics were on, and I'm pretty sure that rule was written before the injured states were added. Here's an imgur album proving there were no EMS on:

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You're about to enter the following site: https://imgur.com/a/k721n Please note: You should only visit trusted sites. We are not responsible for any loss of your privacy.

https://imgur.com/a/k721n

Also, the shooting had stopped for an entire minute before you came around the corner and blasted him.

First: That is NOT a reason to kill the whole Government including not involved officers.
Second: As you said "would" I assume you never tried it. I got blacklisted as I used force instead of trying to speak to the president (doing nearly the exact same thing). This point is 100% invalid and should get yourself into problems and not me.

We weren't trying to kill the officer, we thought the president was in the PD. Keep in mind: we killed a total of 3 people. 1 was unintentional (somehow wesley accidentally pulled out his gun), 1 was deserved (you), 1 had a choice to stand down and not defend a dictator.


As for your second point, (if I am correctly remembering English isn't your first language), that's a language barrier I guess
Here's what I said:

neither the sergeant nor the president would listen to us about you

That means they were not listening and that we did contact them.

D3ST was a democratic president first. He changed to dictator 2 minutes before I changed to SSA. As far as I remember he was a normal president at the time you raided the PD.
The situation at the PD was at least 10 minutes before the situation at the suburbans.
Instead you walked up the PD and killed everyone inside.

The president changed to dictator before we raided the PD.

The situation at PD ended 5 minutes before the situation at the suburbs, but that's a moot point. The only reason for the time difference is we didn't know where the president was.

Also, we did try and get some of the police to surrender peacefully by saying "freeze" but the police opened fire first. Saying we killed everyone inside is a little dramatic considering we only killed one person whom had a chance to surrender.