[monk]

Let me start off by saying this thread is not by any means an attempt to disrespect any staff members nor is it a staff abuse report.

Now then, I would like to ask for some clarification on the rules that aren't actually listed anywhere that apply in-game and on the forums. In the entirety of my time spent on Limelight (~only 100 hours),I myself and others I've worked with have only been cited for rules that simply don't exist and I'd like to ask for some input from administrators, moderators, teachers, and other players for their input and other examples of being punished or warned for rules that don't exist.


In-Game

•When acting as a group, you must have the title of the group as well as your position within the group in your job title.
Example: A group of players with the job title "Highwayman" must have a group name as well as their position (example: The Goons - Highwayman) if they are to work together.

•You are directly responsible and may be punished by staff for the actions of your group even if you are not the leader nor condone their actions.
Example: If a member of a group you are also in fires at someone you are preparing to take hostage, then RP is void and you could be punished even if you warned them explicitly not to and you are not the leader.

•When taking a hostage, you must have their consent if you are going to have them hostaged for over 15 minutes.
Example: Self-explanatory.

•Do not arrest a government official if you yourself are a government official.
Example: If an officer is corrupt and/or is committing crimes, you must allow them to continue.

•Do not cut wood as a doctor.
Note: I saw someone be told in OOC that doctors are not allowed to cut wood. This isn't specified in the rules, however I would understand them being punished if they were self-supplying and refusing to sell to others.

•Do not seek revenge on someone 15 minutes after the event has happened.
Example: Someone calls the police on a player which results in the player having to wait for 15 minutes for the police to leave before they seek revenge on the person who called them. Because 15 minutes has passed, they are no longer allowed to seek revenge.


Forums

•Do not post more than one unblacklist request.
Note: I had a thread denied because "the rules hadn't been added in the thread for some reason." Just saying.

[ForceGhost]

There's a lot of unwritten rules that I'm sure most of us would like to see actually written in the official rules, because although a lot of the unwritten rules are just common sense, some are actually kind of specific and new players and experienced players alike can get caught out with them.

One such example is the use of "Gamma" and "Christmas" sirens, as a new player when you spawn the Explorer "Gamma" will be the default siren. Why not just remove these things entirely? Seems a hell of a lot easier and less annoying than saying "Gamma" every time someone uses it. But I digress...

•Do not arrest a government official if you yourself are a government official.
Example: If an officer is corrupt and/or is committing crimes, you must allow them to continue.

I don't believe that's true..

I've arrested officers that are breaking the law before, same with fireman, paramedics and even The President for refusing a pay a speeding fine.

[monk]

•Do not arrest a government official if you yourself are a government official.
Example: If an officer is corrupt and/or is committing crimes, you must allow them to continue.

I don't believe that's true..

I've arrested officers that are breaking the law before, same with fireman, paramedics and even The President for refusing a pay a speeding fine.

I was blacklisted for this scenario, the difference being I was a citizen RPing as an LEO. However, I was standing right next to the president who had called them up to be arrested when it happened so.

[Overlewd]

I kind of feel like you misunderstood a lot of these because:

•When acting as a group, you must have the title of the group as well as your position within the group in your job title

True, you are expected to display your group affiliation clearly. Falls under descriptive job titles really.

•You are directly responsible and may be punished by staff for the actions of your group even if you are not the leader nor condone their actions.

This is not the case every time, but for example if you are participating with your group in an activity that's against the rules then you will be punished as well because you are also participating in an activity that's against the rules. If you don't agree with the activity you should not do it. 

•When taking a hostage, you must have their consent if you are going to have them hostaged for over 15 minutes.

15 minutes is an arbitrary number, this is to prevent people from being forced into RPs they don't want to be in for too long. You wouldn't like being locked in a cage for an hour I assume. It's not very fun.
Edit: Corrected myself in one of my next posts regarding this in more detail. 15 minutes is actually usually only correct for gov agencies and cages with no RP.

•Do not cut wood as a doctor.

Applies to all dealer jobs. You are expected to do your job as a dealer, make a shop maybe, do deliveries, advertise, not to sit there and cut wood. You didn't go to med school to cut wood for a living.

•Do not arrest a government official if you yourself are a government official.

Wrong. You can arrest government as government in appropriate situations and with appropriate reasoning and RP. It will end with a demotion rather than jail time however.

•Do not seek revenge on someone 15 minutes after the event has happened.

Wrong. The only reason something like this would be told to you is if the person in question has already changed character and so your revenge no longer makes sense.

[monk]

I kind of feel like you misunderstood a lot of these because:

•When acting as a group, you must have the title of the group as well as your position within the group in your job title

True, you are expected to display your group affiliation clearly. Falls under descriptive job titles really.
If my job is highwayman and I'm working with other highwaymen to be highwaymen then it's about as descriptive as a job title can be. And that rule does not specifically state that so I don't see how it just falls in under that.

•You are directly responsible and may be punished by staff for the actions of your group even if you are not the leader nor condone their actions.

This is not the case every time, but for example if you are participating with your group in an activity that's against the rules then you will be punished as well because you are also participating in an activity that's against the rules. If you don't agree with the activity you should not do it. 
This wasn't as much about group activities as it was "if one member breaks the rules doing something then you get punished too." As has occurred to me and why I've brought it up.

•When taking a hostage, you must have their consent if you are going to have them hostaged for over 15 minutes.

15 minutes is an arbitrary number, this is to prevent people from being forced into RPs they don't want to be in for too long. You wouldn't like being locked in a cage for an hour I assume. It's not very fun.
You were the one who told me and my group we couldn't do this:^). Though to be fair we always informed them the exact amount of time they'd be in our jail and always offered bail ($2000, as per hostage rules) for them to leave earlier than that time. So it was basically pay the $2000 as stated in the hostage rules or you're going to RP. Also, not in the rules.

•Do not cut wood as a doctor.

Applies to all dealer jobs. You are expected to do your job as a dealer, make a shop maybe, do deliveries, advertise, not to sit there and cut wood. You didn't go to med school to cut wood for a living.
Yeah, but again it isn't stated in the rules but more or less implied. But I did specify that I wouldn't see a problem as long as they're making an effort to still perform their job. 

•Do not arrest a government official if you yourself are a government official.

Wrong. You can arrest government as government in appropriate situations and with appropriate reasoning and RP. It will end with a demotion rather than jail time however.
Whoa man, where were you for my unblacklist request :^)? Also, why would it not end in jail time if they've committed a crime?

•Do not seek revenge on someone 15 minutes after the event has happened.

Wrong. The only reason something like this would be told to you is if the person in question has already changed character and so your revenge no longer makes sense.
I wouldn't be bringing these up if they've never happened to me and my companions. See blacklist ID 65352 for Teddy Daniels the U.S. Marshal, Steam ID: [b]STEAM_0:0:34525371[/b]

Sorry for a quote of a quote, I'll try not to let it get out of hand in terms of length.

[Overlewd]

Regarding the groups it obviously depends. If you are in the same gang but you are in industrial and then someone RDMs someone else on mainstreet clearly you wont both be punished.

Regarding government workers it wouldn't end in an arrest because you physically can't arrest baton government officials. You'd have to demote them and they'd disappear and respawn. This is a gamemode limitation more than anything else.

For blacklist ID 65352 the reason is that killing someone for calling the cops with no roleplay involved is not okay. The 15 minute bit is a detail that made it seem even more like RDM, it's not the primary reason for the actual blacklist.

[monk]

Yeah, I'm just saying I've been warned when I'm not the leader of a group for another person's actions and pretty much told I'm still responsible for them.

Of course, though you can always RP out an arrest and sentence and such. Or ask them to come back as citizens if they're actually willing to RP it. But again the point is you're the second admin to tell me you're allowed to arrest government officials and yet it's still supposedly against the rules.

I wasn't there for that specific event because the server used to not like me and never let me play, but the event was: a man was being mugged and called the cops, they evaded the cops and came back and shot the guy for it. If that's not allowed then I would imagine neither is killing someone because they didn't drop the money they asked you to which happens a lot. The reason it was 15 minutes was because they were watching him the whole time after and had to wait for the cops to leave him alone before they could go get him. They did also roleplay killing him as much as is permitted by the server.

[Overlewd]

I have nothing else to say about those, I'd be repeating myself.

Correcting myself about the 15 minute thing after thinking about examples a bit longer - it is for government agencies mostly, because it needs to correspond to jail sentences. 

For regular hostagings an admin may ask you to stop it if it's carried on for too long with little to no roleplay. E.g if a hostaging/interrogation is being carried out or another form of RP it can last longer. If you stick someone in a cage for 15 minutes chances are you will be asked to do something or release them.

[monk]

Alright, if we're a government agency and had other RP activities for them could we keep them for over 15? We never really go over 20 anyways.

[Overlewd]

If it's a roleplay that's not a prison sentence/labour substitution for prison sentence, then yea I suppose. And look, 15 minutes is once again arbitrary, we aren't there with a stopwatch timing it to ban you when it hits 15:01 or anything. The point I'm making is that you can't tie someone up and sit with them in a room for 30 minutes etc. For example you may handcuff someone, search the property, search suspect, drive them to the police station, by the time you get all the processing RP done in there you can already be hitting 15 minutes, and that's before the jail sentence is even applied. It's all about the RP. Hell, if your hostage RP is actually good quality your hostage might not want to leave anyhow. I remember a really long time ago I was a cop and got hostaged and tortured for 40 minutes by LightBeer. It was good RP so I didn't even complain about it taking a long time.

[yutgjctguc]

Is it allowed to cut wood as TRANSPORTING Gun Dealer/BMD/Doctor/etc, if I like advertsite once per minute "im transprting blah blah /pm blah lah"?

[Dick]

Usually, Doctors are not allowed due to the ability of purchasing Steroids which is he number 1 reason why players attempt to cut trees down as doctor.

As for other jobs, IN MY OPINON theu personally are not made to really be cutting down trees and if they are transporting items they'd still usually have a factory or HQ of were the supplies would have come from.

[Blazing]

I'd agree that there is some confusion regarding some of these unwritten rules, but a lot of them are indeed covered by broader rules. For example, not cutting wood as a doctor would be covered by the FailRP rule.

[Dick]

@monk, Have you received the answers to your questions?

[Project]

@monk, do you have any further questions?