[Bambo]

Hello Limelight,

In my recent suggestion [In-Game] Reducing/Increasing Jail Time, Toxic opened the subject of being a lawyer in CityRP and how it is difficult and you'd have to be a real lawyer to really get through the copblock.
I agree with him. The police or the president for some reason aren't that willing to do lawyer RP although it would be a fun experience for both sides. They aren't willing to negotiate at all over the prisoners and being a lawyer is impossible.

What I desire with this discussion thread is to see what the community thinks about this and how this can be improved or fixed.

Would having a Lawyer job, make the police feel that the roleplay is a necessity and not something you can just brush off?

Also, aside from the main discussion I also want to make a poll to see if;
The community would want a Lawyer job
The community wouldn't want a Lawyer job but more negotiation worthy aspects like reducing jail time, bail, parole and continue doing the roleplay as a citizen.

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Points made by the community

The points made that are giving a unique input or a way to fix this issue will be placed here.

Perhaps if there actually was a lawyer job (not needed but would make this system easier) then:

A recently incarnated prisoner could type /appeal, which would raise a notification to all police, and the lawyer that a prisoner wants to make an appeal. The lawyer's job would then be to find out what the grounds of this appeal is.  (This would come up in the same way arrest warrants come up the the president. ((The prisoner's prison timer would be stopped until  the lawyer clicks 'cross' in which his appeal would be denied.)) If the lawyer feels as if the prisoner has justification, he can then go to court, in which the arresting police officer MUST attend, of be breaching failRP.



Just a thought.

One thing that I have been thinking about that is lacking in today's EvoCity. The Miranda's Rights. A prisoner has no rights right now, there is no such thing as wrongful arrest. Adding in a system that could allow for a proper appeals system would help a lot.

There has been a lot of talk lately about random arrests, about improper searches, etc... You could solve that in character with a lawyer capable of reducing/extending sentences after trial, and perhaps even punishing arresting officers if the prisoner is found innocent. Perhaps a $1000 fee for wasting everyone's time or something...

My issue with a court and trial is that they'd be too long-winded for the amount of time a person spends in a jail on the LL servers, currently a 15 minute maximum. I remember a near 20 minute argument I had with one guy on Arma 2 Island Life because he simply couldn't or didn't want to understand what obstructing a police officer meant and entailed; literally, he had been released and was still going at it over TS. As I said previously, not many people would really know how to properly defend their client as a lawyer, and you'll get mass murderers appealing their cases in a court where everyone is trying to yell louder than the other person(Not like they'll listen to someone saying 'there will be order'). It is also highly un likely that a lawyer would turn down appeals that came up (since it gets boring quickly without any work to be done, so let's go defend the serial killer). End result, half the server clogged up because the people who should be in jail are in court, wasting everyone's time. In fact, they might even spend more time trying to argue their clean-cut case than they would be serving time in jail.

Conclusion, not much point in a law system, it'd be messy and would derail the server.

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Things to take into account when suggesting

The only time really we would make a pre-made job into the GM is if there are specialised commands that are necessary for the job role, from what you will no longer be able to do as a citizen and these command needs to be necessary and make a drastic and relevant improvement to the current system. 

So you guys could work from this. 

However you guys need to sell to us all of the factors and how they should be addressed: 
- what commands are needed and relevant?
- how can we prevent new players or rule breakers from abusing it to cheat the jail system. 
- should there be a new set of rules? Would there be a justifiable reason to add even more rules?
- where does this job stand (on the aspect of the GM) in terms of government ranking (do they overrule police, SWAT, SS)?
- will we then need to add additional pre-made job to the GM to compliment and makes the lawyer job work correctly (I.E. Judge?)

This 'idea' in terms of development is in stage 1: planning and this is pushing the bounderies between the GM being semi-serious to becoming Serious.

[Suarez]

I don't think the lawyer job is necessary as you can just simply do it via the citizen job but more options should definitely be opened up.

[Nacreas]

Myself, Enzyme and a few others were discussing the arrests system just the other day. We'll draw up some plans ourselves but if anyone has any ideas or suggestions about how an appeal system should work, post them here.

[Maniac]

The courtroom would be great if it wouldn't be such a pain in the ass to get there.

[evilmat360]

The courtroom would be great if it wouldn't be such a pain in the ass to get there.

It's fine on rockford, just need an alternative for 33x

[akne]

It all depends on the players, sometimes you get people who will actually roleplay and I can manage to lie 4 people out of arrest or get rid of someones search warrant.

Then, you get the people who won't even give you a chance to speak, they will tase and arrest you for jaywalking, if they see someone with an arrest warrant they will just walk up to them and hit them with the arrest baton with no handcuffs or RP initiated whatsoever.

[Jono]

Perhaps if there actually was a lawyer job (not needed but would make this system easier) then:

A recently incarnated prisoner could type /appeal, which would raise a notification to all police, and the lawyer that a prisoner wants to make an appeal. The lawyer's job would then be to find out what the grounds of this appeal is.  (This would come up in the same way arrest warrants come up the the president. ((The prisoner's prison timer would be stopped until  the lawyer clicks 'cross' in which his appeal would be denied.)) If the lawyer feels as if the prisoner has justification, he can then go to court, in which the arresting police officer MUST attend, of be breaching failRP.

Just a thought.

[SirWulf]

That is a good system there Jono.

One thing that I have been thinking about that is lacking in today's EvoCity. The Miranda's Rights. A prisoner has no rights right now, there is no such thing as wrongful arrest. Adding in a system that could allow for a proper appeals system would help a lot.

There has been a lot of talk lately about random arrests, about improper searches, etc... You could solve that in character with a lawyer capable of reducing/extending sentences after trial, and perhaps even punishing arresting officers if the prisoner is found innocent. Perhaps a $1000 fee for wasting everyone's time or something...

[Toxic]

My issue with a court and trial is that they'd be too long-winded for the amount of time a person spends in a jail on the LL servers, currently a 15 minute maximum. I remember a near 20 minute argument I had with one guy on Arma 2 Island Life because he simply couldn't or didn't want to understand what obstructing a police officer meant and entailed; literally, he had been released and was still going at it over TS. As I said previously, not many people would really know how to properly defend their client as a lawyer, and you'll get mass murderers appealing their cases in a court where everyone is trying to yell louder than the other person(Not like they'll listen to someone saying 'there will be order'). It is also highly un likely that a lawyer would turn down appeals that came up (since it gets boring quickly without any work to be done, so let's go defend the serial killer). End result, half the server clogged up because the people who should be in jail are in court, wasting everyone's time. In fact, they might even spend more time trying to argue their clean-cut case than they would be serving time in jail.

Conclusion, not much point in a law system, it'd be messy and would derail the server.

[Bambo]

Editted the main post with the positive and negative feedback.

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I'd like to thank all the people who shared their ideas and opinions on this matter, and I am excited to see more feedback regarding it.

[Obay]

The only time really we would make a pre-made job into the GM is if there are specialised commands that are necessary for the job role, from what you will no longer be able to do as a citizen and these command needs to be necessary and make a drastic and relevant improvement to the current system.

So you guys could work from this. 

However you guys need to sell to us all of the factors and how they should be addressed: 
- what commands are needed and relevant?
- how can we prevent new players or rule breakers from abusing it to cheat the jail system. 
- should there be a new set of rules? Would there be a justifiable reason to add even more rules?
- where does this job stand (on the aspect of the GM) in terms of government ranking (do they overrule police, SWAT, SS)?
- will we then need to add additional pre-made job to the GM to compliment and makes the lawyer job work correctly (I.E. Judge?)

This 'idea' in terms of development is in stage 1: planning and this is pushing the bounderies between the GM being semi-serious to becoming Serious.

[Welker]

A police database would go a long way if this were to be implemented, I'd like to see things like parole and house arrest though.

On a different and slightly off topic matter, I'd like to see ankle bracelets be implemented to be able to track the person wearing with a command such as /%l Welker > Welker is located at Nexus Lobby. They should also be removable and also beep/send the location of the person when it was removed to the police.
**Welker has removed his ankle bracelet at the Nexus Lobby**

Enough rambling on, I have nothing else to add I guess..
This whole damn reply has nothing to do with it really..