[richie]

So, I've recently picked up that user warnings, such as Wesley have enough power to warrant a PR and get approved for 'being warned multiple times', has become more and more frequent.

Can this be discussed well because I've had enough with user warnings being counted as staff?

[Soviethooves]

If you are informed of the rule and you still break it, I'd say that warrants punishment, especially if a player had to tell you, let alone multiple times.

[richie]

If you are informed of the rule and you still break it, I'd say that warrants punishment, especially if a player had to tell you, let alone multiple times.

But users aren't here to enforce rules, they're here to play. When it comes to the point of users being able to enforce rules whats the point of staff?

[Vadar]

Regardless of who tells you a warning should at least prompt you to stop and question what you are doing regardless of who gives it. "Verbal Warnings" don't do anything so of course regardless of who its given by it doesn't do anything at all.

[BlackDog]

Users do not enforce policy, they are free to inform other players of policy if they so wish, but them warning one of an infraction or potential infraction does not influence the handling of cases and i'm not 100% sure where you picked up that idea?

Issued warnings, blacklists, bans on record can influence future handing of a case as they are Moderation/Administrative issued and clearly show a person has been talked to, informed of, and due to the situation been issued a mark on their record for future reference by the Staff Team as a whole.

[Overlewd]

The PR is not for being warned multiple times. The PR is for whatever rule you broke, with the added information that other users have informed you that there is a rule against it but kept going with the rule violation anyways. 

If someone is informing you that you are breaking the rules, the reasonable thing is to go check the rule page to confirm rather than going like "He's not staff so im just gonna keep doing this until a staff member tells me I'm breaking a rule".

Them mentioning this in the PR is not the reason for the approval of the PR, it's the rule violation.

[Soviethooves]

If you are informed of the rule and you still break it, I'd say that warrants punishment, especially if a player had to tell you, let alone multiple times.

But users aren't here to enforce rules, they're here to play. When it comes to the point of users being able to enforce rules whats the point of staff?

Example: I go up to you and say "Hey man, don't throw that rock at the store. That's vandalism." *You do it anyways.* The court can rule that your intent was to break a law as you were informed of the action being illegal. Same applies here.

And players aren't enforcing the rules. They're trying to tell players not to break rules so they can't ruin it for others. If enough people call you out for being an asshat, most likely a staff member is going to notice that and realize that multiple perspectives noticed and INFORMED you about the rule. Meaning there is almost NO WAY you could have NOT known you were breaking the rule.

I feel you're taking this way out of proportion just because you probably got the negative side of the rare outcome. It seems to be a repeat reason why you make these threads.

[Blazing]

Whilst I understand the point about user warnings proving intent in some cases, it has to be noted that players will often misinform other people of the rules. For example, there are often false accusations of RDM, fearRP or failRP.

I think it's very dangerous to allow user warnings to prove anything. It doesn't matter if it cannot get a user punished in isolation; if it starts to have an effect on the extent of punishment, or likelihood of a player report being approved, it could open up a can of worms. A lot of players actively seek and enjoy getting others punished, and I think the accusations could easily go out of control if user warnings have an impact on player reports.

[Soviethooves]

Whilst I understand the point about user warnings proving intent in some cases, it has to be noted that players will often misinform other people of the rules. For example, there are often false accusations of RDM, fearRP or failRP.

In that case either the person is afraid of breaking a rule that doesn't exist, the player is corrected by another in OOC, or the player who actually commits the action is still in trouble and the player that misinformed them is not involved.

I think it's very dangerous to allow user warnings to prove anything.

It doesn't prove anything. It's to INFORM and a means of INTENT. You are supposed to know the rules when you first join. Someone reminding you isn't going to effect the punishment or your supposed knowledge of the rules.

It doesn't matter if it cannot get a user punished in isolation; if it starts to have an effect on the extent of punishment, or likelihood of a player report being approved, it could open up a can of worms.

It doesn't effect the punishment. It was just mentioned in the punishment reasoning. You have to remember that punishments are also noted on the player for Staff to refer back to. All the "User Warning" meant was that even after multiple attempts to STOP the player from breaking a rule, he still did it. That's a valid reason of someone attempting to inform him and just ignoring what was said.

A lot of players actively seek and enjoy getting others punished, and I think the accusations could easily go out of control if user warnings have an impact on player reports.

They never and never will? I mean, are we really arguing about this? It was mentioned in the punishment reasoning, but it wasn't the MAIN REASON. It was just added to show intent (Which in this case is valid). This has always been a thing and the only reason it has come up is because someone got mad that they were punished. There solution is starting a thread to make himself look like the good guy and make others who are trying to help, the bad guys.

[Tails]

And players aren't enforcing the rules. They're trying to tell players not to break rules 

That's called enforcing the rules

[ForceGhost]

And players aren't enforcing the rules. They're trying to tell players not to break rules 

That's called enforcing the rules

enforcing; cause (something) to happen by necessity or force.

Informing; give (someone) facts or information; tell.

[Soviethooves]

And players aren't enforcing the rules. They're trying to tell players not to break rules 

That's called enforcing the rules

I’m pretty sure them informing others isn’t enforcing the rules unless they do something to attempt to stop the user. Informing doesn’t stop anything.

[Jan]

Players minding other people's business by going after them trying to tell them not to break minor rules are the aids of every community, don't do it!

[Soviethooves]

Players minding other people's business by going after them trying to tell them not to break minor rules are the aids of every community, don't do it!

I’d rahter see players trying to keep each other out of trouble than see staff punish them. The more people who know and inform other the better.

[richie]

Players minding other people's business by going after them trying to tell them not to break minor rules are the aids of every community, don't do it!

we got a smart soul here