[Soviethooves]

- Why are you guys so picky with choosing Moderator 1's? It's a trial position. You obviously need better staff members, and I can name a few that should be in Mod 1 to start looking into. If you want an active staff presence, stop being picky and start offering it to players that obviously deserve it.

I believe something on this topic was said about in the Staff Meeting Last Week

Yea, I think the excuse was something like "Our staff always keep an eye out for new possible staff", but I fail to see the effectiveness of that when only about 3-4 of them come on and only 1 of them is an Administrator.

[Jokhah]

I just wonder why most of yall suddenly give a shit, when there have been plenty of other similar dicussions where some of yall didn't. Besides, this whole "staff issue" was a major part of why LL came to be from FL, when FL's staff was in a similar state. Just saying, some of yall shit all over threads like this when others make them. Where is the sudden "fuck" that you are giving now?

I'm guessing that now that people you know and maybe care about are getting their dicks slapped, is why you care?

P.S. Gonna just say it again, anyway, even though I KNOW some of you have read the long rants I've made elsewhere on these forums about similar topics.

Staff situation isn't great, but when you look around the active player pool, most of them aren't great either. It would be nice to try to fill the staff team, but with what? Toxic assholes? High hour rule breakers? Brown-nosers? This community is a toxic cesspool that some of the same people posting here have supported being in this state for some time. Why suddenly give a fuck? Serious question.

[Nudel]

I just wonder why most of yall suddenly give a shit, when there have been plenty of other similar dicussions where some of yall didn't.  Besides, this whole "staff issue" was a major part of why LL came to be from FL, when FL's staff was in a similar state.  Just saying, some of yall shit all over threads like this when others make them.  Where is the sudden "fuck" that you are giving now?

I'm guessing that now that people you know and maybe care about are getting their dicks slapped, is why you care?

P.S.  Gonna just say it again, anyway, even though I KNOW some of you have read the long rants I've made elsewhere on these forums about similar topics.

Staff situation isn't great, but when you look around the active player pool, most of them aren't great either.  It would be nice to try to fill the staff team, but with what?  Toxic assholes?  High hour rule breakers?  Brown-nosers?  This community is a toxic cesspool that some of the same people posting here have supported being in this state for some time.  Why suddenly give a fuck?  Serious question.

Please just do me one favor and stop ranting about other peoples opinions/actions all the fucking time.
Everything is full of your rant against people's opinions and even their personality. Just stop it.

This thread is about LL problems, not about "why nobody gave a fuck about it on FL".

[Nacreas]

A civil discussion was requested, that will be enforced. Keep it as such.

I'm going to answer the questions that I feel are best answered at an admin level, not the ones SA-HR should respond to.

- What is going on with the Administrators? I thought the point of being an Admin and not Mod 2 was that not only are entrusted with moderating the server, but you are also given extra responsibility (This being extra specialist roles, discussing private topics, etc.). So, why am I hearing about some staff members just being allowed to keep the tags, but all they do is play other games and barely try to help in the server and the community's organization roles?

This is one I should respond to as admin who isn't the most active so I will. Quite a lot of us are burned out and the Christmas period doesn't help because it just makes us all busier like everyone else. Vauld hit the nail on the head when he said that a loss of activity due to real life priorities is a consequence of having a more mature staff team. This is why I have begun discussions where we will review potential candidates for staff positions. We've not been the most active, but I have personally started discussions to address several of the issues our community is facing such as a lack of moderation staff in-game.

- Why are you guys so picky with choosing Moderator 1's? It's a trial position. You obviously need better staff members, and I can name a few that should be in Mod 1 to start looking into. If you want an active staff presence, stop being picky and start offering it to players that obviously deserve it.

As I mentioned above, I've looked at a few people and have begun discussions into whether or not they are suitable for a staff position. Now I get that Moderator Stage One is regarded as a training position, but it comes with authority, and enough to inconvenience a lot of people. For this reason we want to ensure that we are confident in the people we are promoting, stage one or not.

- I understand staff can go inactive due to IRL reasons or vacation, but when are they gonna stop being the excuse for inactivity? I can understand a staff member not being able to get on due to his kids being in the hospital, or they're joining the military, but the rest? At some point, you have to decide if they need to be demoted until they come back, or get rid of them all together.

We can't just drop people when we don't have the staff to replace them. Between us all we have many years of life experience on top of many years moderating CityRP gamemodes which is why we are a useful resource to the community. Admittedly we would be more useful if we could afford to be more active, but we can't for various reasons a lot of which is as a result of real life.

Once Limelight is in a better position with more moderators is when I imagine SA-HR will be stricter with staff activity. Until such time, which is hopefully soon, we will continue to offer what spare time we can give you.

[Jokhah]

@"Nudelsalat im Panzer"

I only mentioned FL once because that's where this community came from, it knew about many of these issues from the very beginning. I'm calling people out about their behavior and asking a legit question. Seeing as many people here have shat on similar threads, why the sudden switch of sides? Why is this suddenly an issue that you are willing to discuss, when previously many of yall haven't?

As for you being tired of hearing what I gotta say or your opinion on my opinion, tough. We both have opinions, they don't have to be the same.

[Taylor]

@Enzyme @Overlewd

[Soviethooves]

@"Nudelsalat im Panzer"

I only mentioned FL once because that's where this community came from, it knew about many of these issues from the very beginning. I'm calling people out about their behavior and asking a legit question.  Seeing as many people here have shat on similar threads, why the sudden switch of sides?   Why is this suddenly an issue that you are willing to discuss, when previously many of yall haven't?

As for you being tired of hearing what I gotta say or your opinion on my opinion, tough.  We both have opinions, they don't have to be the same.

Someone’s gotta take the initiative. It’s pretty simple.

[Tails]

And not to call you out or anything but it took you multiple rule breakages to get demoted whilst it only took Octagon one.

Why are standards for teacher so much higher than admin like are you sure

Which isn't quite right. There were things going on in the background. It wasn't the rule violation alone. Although I really don't get why his punishment was way higher than Wesleys'. But that's OT.

He lost his rank (something that he well deserved) and received a 4 day ban + blacklist for a rule that I have never seen explicitly mentioned anywhere. To lose your rank over something like him blatantly breaking FearRP or another rule is harsh - but to be punished this severely because the rules aren't clear is a big kick in the balls for him

[Tails]

It would be nice to try to fill the staff team, but with what?  Toxic assholes?  High hour rule breakers?  Brown-nosers? 

If they know the rules well and enforce them, then yes who the fuck cares if they hurt your little feelings. Their job isn't to hand hold you through the game, it's to stop people ruining it for everyone.

[Baskingner]

And not to call you out or anything but it took you multiple rule breakages to get demoted whilst it only took Octagon one.

Why are standards for teacher so much higher than admin like are you sure

Which isn't quite right. There were things going on in the background. It wasn't the rule violation alone. Although I really don't get why his punishment was way higher than Wesleys'. But that's OT.

He lost his rank (something that he well deserved) and received a 4 day ban + blacklist for a rule that I have never seen explicitly mentioned anywhere. To lose your rank over something like him blatantly breaking FearRP or another rule is harsh - but to be punished this severely because the rules aren't clear is a big kick in the balls for him

I'd imagine his ban wasnt the only reason he was demoted? Probably some stuff behind the scenes. 


From what ive read from Vaulds resignation thread there is a problem with staff not having enough time/dedication anymore because they are getting older. I havent been online in a while and i see plenty of young people ready to take over your stick and lead this community into a new chapter?  Probably not as easy as it sounds i know, but hiding behind the 'there is no one to promote' argument is just not fair as there are plenty of people who would do a great job.

[Taylor]

It would be nice to try to fill the staff team, but with what?  Toxic assholes?  High hour rule breakers?  Brown-nosers? 

If they know the rules well and enforce them, then yes who the fuck cares if they hurt your little feelings. Their job isn't to hand hold you through the game, it's to stop people ruining it for everyone.

No offence intended, but 99.9% of people are toxic sometimes Jokhah, and the only real qualities needed to administrate are a professional attitude (WHEN NEEDED) Andy knowledge of the rules

[Bambo]

- Why is it when a staff member breaks a rule (The people that should be sterling examples and are meant uphold the rules) get a slight warning or a slap on the wrist compared to players that will sometimes get blacklists or even bans on their first accident?

I understand that this brings up some issues along with the recent demotion of a teacher who broke the rules and standing from one point it definitely shouldn't happen. If a staff member breaks the rules, which I don't remember it happening that often, they are dealt accordingly. In your case it was a demotion after stuff being piled up and maybe should've gotten the necessary punishment that would go with that case however sometimes a demotion is deemed enough as it's sometimes an enough punishment. It's basicly losing every privilege you had so it's in it's own way a major blacklist, and in some cases additional blacklists might not be required at that point.

- Why is HR not putting their foot down on staff members? Staff have to reach a minimum amount of hours server and forums wise I believe and so far, only about a 3rd (Maybe less) of the staff team actually meets these time requirements. Not even HR members seem to get those hours. Not to mention the lack of some even doing their job when on.

When I stepped down, I did so because I didn't want to hold space and responsibility while I was sorting stuff out in my life and my situation was in that time what I deemed extreme enough to resign to sort it all out. The staff right now have jobs that they come home late and tired or at times they get hooked into other games, we've all been there. There is a problem that if the inactive people resign, like most did in the past few weeks, the number of possible staff decrease with no possible replacement. You might be saying but if they're inactive they already don't have a presence on the server, and them leaving is not effecting anyone, which is correct but some are experienced enough in various ways that at times are useful. If there was potential candidates, I'd see the transaction of this power happening.

- What is going on with the Administrators? I thought the point of being an Admin and not Mod 2 was that not only are entrusted with moderating the server, but you are also given extra responsibility (This being extra specialist roles, discussing private topics, etc.). So, why am I hearing about some staff members just being allowed to keep the tags, but all they do is play other games and barely try to help in the server and the community's organization roles?

I believe this falls down to if they have experience in that end. I believe in Media's case no one was experienced to be leading it, and having an idea of whatever you're leading is important.

- Why are you guys so picky with choosing Moderator 1's? It's a trial position. You obviously need better staff members, and I can name a few that should be in Mod 1 to start looking into. If you want an active staff presence, stop being picky and start offering it to players that obviously deserve it.

From what I've seen, when faced with power people start acting differently which is not always a good thing. I'm going to be honest with you, those that I once saw as good candidates proved me wrong. Let me be clear I'm not talking about anyone that is right now in the staff. During my time I've always tried to help and act friendly, give chances wherever I can, teach before punishing and never forgot that I was once a player, and that I'm still a player but I can't see anyone in the player base doing that for now. The community is not in a great position, as some have pointed it out players at times are quite toxic which probably creates a sense of caution in the staff team while picking a new person because you never know the outcome. Moderator 1 is a trial position but it is a trial position that when given to the wrong person it might cause a tension in the server or a blockade in the roleplay of the server. Even if this goes on for a week, that effects the community, so it is best to be safe than sorry.

- I understand staff can go inactive due to IRL reasons or vacation, but when are they gonna stop being the excuse for inactivity? I can understand a staff member not being able to get on due to his kids being in the hospital, or they're joining the military, but the rest? At some point, you have to decide if they need to be demoted until they come back, or get rid of them all together.

Answered my comments up above in the 2nd question I believe.

[Daley]

The quality of the teacher team is for the majority my responsibility. I ensure that what we expect from our teacher team is kept, and just like with anyone else, a warning was given, a very clear one, and we thought we reached and understanding, I won't go into specifics. Octagon is however free to tell his side of the story, if he so pleases.

I am personally getting burned out here and there, and lose motivation to play for several reasons. The amount of time I have spend on this gamemode, as well as the fact that most of the people that I used to play with, or even just run into are all gone, or inactive, I try to carry my part however.

Staff members should receive stronger punishments for rule infringements, however, being a staff member also means that you will always have a spotlight pointed at you. HR needs to be more harsh in certain situations, if a staff member shows a poor attitude, or does not listen, or repeatedly abuses his powers, actions need to be taken. But they also need to be able to justify any demotion to the community, and the staff team. At the end of the day HR consists of two members of administrative staff, and they cannot be swayed by their personal opinion, and they want to make sure that when they demote someone from the staff team it is justified.

Staff activity has not been great, and something needs to be done about it, but most of the people that are part of this community have a job or study, in the end we are volunteers, we don't get payed to do this, and we administrate here because we want to help the community, or enjoy doing it, however this should not be an excuse to take measures to reduce inactive staff, or change the way we threat it.

We need to expand our staff team, but we do not want to slack on the requirements or expectations of staff members. We are picky when it comes to picking who to promote, even to stage one, considering they will directly impact players on the server, as well as our public image.

It's a shame to see things deteriorate. The players I used to play with, are not here anymore, a lot of members in this community are toxic, and even though the majority of the staff team, and players agrees on certain aspects, they cannot seem to be resolved. I want LimeLight to do well, to progress, and expand.

I do not blame anyone in particular, I get both sides of this coin, but I also think that having a civil conversation, or gaining constructive and non-hostile criticism is something not a lot of players can provide, which is unfortunate.

If you want to be heard, then be constructive, give arguments, and support those arguments.

My inbox is always open

[Vauld]

Well honestly the solution is relatively clear, the ability for it to be implemented is where the issues occur.



Now I'm going to be blunt and honest with no filter here and look at this from an objective view, so PLEASE don't take this personally staff.

My post in my resignation basically summed up all of the problems and the solution is below, I call it the

8 Steps To Success

featuring: A bunch of text most people probably won't care about

1. Move a person with ample time into a leadership position, whether it be Bambo, Internet, Blackdog - it doesn't matter, someone who can drive a strategic vision (and ideally has one to drive lol). Faustie is too busy, Enzyme is too busy, Overlewd doesn't seem to be interested in leading anything, Temar.. Is Temar. Yes Blackdog is biased (#FUMUKUBIAS lololol, for real tho), yes Internet is bad at communication and can seem "power hungry", but they both seem to have the required free time and have generally done a lot and understand the inner workings, most importantly I think they realize the potential LL has. If we want to go anywhere we need to get a leader, period, full stop. Tbh Bambo seems like an good choice for me too; if he doesn't become too busy in the near future of course.

2. This would allow HR to move from an everything position into what it's supposed to be - dealing with admins and the community, not trying to deal with stupid conflict everywhere internally. Would probably help a few things.

3. Then, allow HR, Jono, and Developers to discuss and create a vision that will be constantly pushed by the leader. The vision will then trickle down into all departments and in turn into the community. The issue right now is that we barely got the internal areas of LL talking, but even if we can get 100% communication - wtf are they gonna talk about if there's no goal or vision.

4. Get the community on board with the vision, we have a pretty smart community actually - and if the staff team told them wtf was happening they'd probably understand and try to help out where they can. The issue is that no one actually tells anyone anything so the entire community has become a meme with no direction (resulting from no leadership)

5. At this point we'd theoretically have a community and staff team on board with a vision shared by the higher-ups in the staff team and led by a single person who can incrementally lead the entire staff towards this goal. If staff are still inactive at this point, say bye bye, sorry you're busy with real life we love and respect that but move on. Then we need to look to our community, which hopefully will be less of a meme-troll pit because there's actually something long-term to look forward to. We then grab the best fit and most enthusiastic people from our community and replace them with the old burnt out staff members.

6. Now we have a leader with a vision, so that even if things get unstable LL can thrive. 

PAUSE

So let me tell ya'll something I realized when thinking about all this shit a while back. Point 6 is the most vital of all, why, you may ask? Well look at FL. Why tf is FL still a thing? Many of us ask this - The reason is because of Soulripper. I know it sounds ridiculous because he was mostly crap at leading, but the reason FL survived through thick and thing is because he DID lead, whether or not he was leading in the right direction is highly debatable (lel). Basically having a leader is vital (I also did a few hours of research into virtual teams and the importance of a leader, shit is confirmed important af)

K, now to point 7.

7. At this point LL would have a direction, an enthusiastic team, and a feasible trajectory to reach and achieve goals that fulfill the direction. Whether that be expanding to new games, increasing player count through youtube and advertising by x number of players, etc, etc. We'd have a vision, a direction, goals, and aspirations that can be worked towards through smart planning and goal setting. The community could even get involved with these goals, there's no reason to keep these sorts of things confidential from the community - they can help and want to be a part of something greater. 

A large issue right now is that everything is super secret confidential for no freakin' reason. Like "Oh the players might be dissapointed if we announce something then don't do it" ok well here's a grand idea, keep the players updated with the progress. If they realize that something happened and the project can't be completed, no one is going to complain. They're going to say "Oh well that makes sense, sucks but makes sense". The issue is when the staff announces something, then keep the community in the complete dark, and the say "oh it didn't work out" if ya'll actually kept the whole process transparent I don't think people are going to grab pitchforks if something goes wrong, as long as the process makes sense. As a whole the community is underestimated and written off as a liability most of the time imo, they're a tool and a resource and want to be a part of this process. 

8. GG, we won. We got a leader, a vision, a strategy, a community on board, with enthusiastic staff. Now we take over.




NOW, yes, I understand this is an extremely ambitious goal. I understand there's a 90% chance this won't happen. I understand if it does happen it will be a difficult process. But to be frank with everyone, this is really the only way I see LL really reaching it's potential. We can probably continue on as is and make some progress, but the potential is never going to be realized doing what we're doing. However, like I said - what we're doing now may be the best route, everyone is busy and might not have time to invest. It just depends on what the staff/community want Limelight to be.

k let's hear what ya'll have to say.

[Awestruck]

From the perspective of someone on the outside, in a bit of similar position, LL has been successful in terms of development. Very successful, I will admit. The staff, as much as I love the majority of them, are pretty absent with a few here and there who make the extra effort (even some of those resigned (Ty Bambo<3)). Whenever I join the LL server I tend to see barely any staff on, other than the odd admin and moderator(s). Personally, I only like to join when admins are on so I know no-ones gonna fuck around. Maybe that's part of your problem.