[Vauld]

Your Name: 
Vauld
Issued by: Please include the [L²]/[L²:M] tag.
[L²][F.I]BlackDog
Blacklist ID: 
70246, 70245
Server:
v33x
Why should you be unblacklisted?: 
So basically I came on the server for the first time in like 5 months or something. I decided to RP a grumpy old man, whom was upset and frustrated with the country as a whole. I started this RP by changing my job to "Old Man".

The first incident that led to the final outcome of this blacklist, was me being pulled over by a police officer inside the city. I was on the way to retrieve my hearing aide, and happened to have left my glasses at home. I was having a hard time driving and was as a result, pulled over. I used this opportunity to set a stage for my character and his development. I created a small scene about the ticket and proclaimed that I will not pay the facist government. I made sure to RP that I was armed and had a tendency to be a little unpredictable. I used /me reaches for his wallet in his glove compartment, where a loaded revolver is located. Afterwards I proceeded to get out of my car and hobble around, causing the police officer to have to calm me down. I was basically setting the stage for an unpredictable 93 year old, who was slightly disoriented and had issues with the government.

Following the being pulled over I decided to attempt to go to the Nexus and have a discussion with the president over the state of the government. I continued to setup the roleplay of a government hating old man using /me during this time period. I grumbled to myself, etc. etc. 

I decided to leave the city, while doing so I encountered an unconstitutional government checkpoint. I was held at gunpoint and threatened by the police officer working the checkpoint. At this point I had been RP'ing for like 40 minutes or so. I had been pulled over and set the stage for my character, and 93 year old who didn't really give a shit - hated the government and thought his rights were being violated. I perpetuated this idea over the around hour long RP I was doing. The point in which my character snapped was at this checkpoint. After being released from the threatening officer, I decided to take the "facism" into my own hands by firing a shot at the officer whom had me at gunpoint at a seemingly unconstitutional checkpoint. I fired I think three shots, and I used a /me command to ensure the RP was appropriate. I think I only hit the cop once. This then incited a police chase in which I got into my old car, and headed to the main street garage where I pulled out my rifle, knowing that the police chase would inherently result in my demise (either going to jail for the rest of my life, or a firefight). I was shot.

After being shot my body glitched out and disappeared despite the presence of a medic being available. This resulted in my gun being dropped on the ground due to a glitch. So I ran back over, grabbed my gun, and then left the server. Did I break NLR, technically yes - but the causation of my breaking of NLR was due to a glitch that shouldn't of happened. Therefore I believe it was justified in this particular scenario. It's just as though someone accidentally prop killed themselves, you usually let them back regardless of the NLR. I broke NLR due to an OOC reason, should I have asked - probably. Did I? No. Regardless though, I glitched out and didn't want my gun to be taken from a glitch. 
Evidence:
All applicable evidence can be found within the chat logs if you really feel like looking them up.

[Limelight Gaming]

The staff-members have received your unblacklist-request, Vauld.

It will take a while for it to be reviewed.

[BlackDog]

Your Name: 
Vauld
Issued by: Please include the [L²]/[L²:M] tag.
[L²][F.I]BlackDog
Blacklist ID: 
70246, 70245
Server:
v33x
Why should you be unblacklisted?: 
So basically I came on the server for the first time in like 5 months or something. I decided to RP a grumpy old man, whom was upset and frustrated with the country as a whole. I started this RP by changing my job to "Old Man".

The first incident that led to the final outcome of this blacklist, was me being pulled over by a police officer inside the city. I was on the way to retrieve my hearing aide, and happened to have left my glasses at home. I was having a hard time driving and was as a result, pulled over. I used this opportunity to set a stage for my character and his development. I created a small scene about the ticket and proclaimed that I will not pay the facist government.

(The government was in no way dictorial nor facist, it was running 100% normal and its laws represented this)

I made sure to RP that I was armed and had a tendency to be a little unpredictable. I used /me reaches for his wallet in his glove compartment, where a loaded revolver is located. Afterwards I proceeded to get out of my car and hobble around, causing the police officer to have to calm me down. I was basically setting the stage for an unpredictable 93 year old, who was slightly disoriented and had issues with the government.



Following the being pulled over I decided to attempt to go to the Nexus and have a discussion with the president over the state of the government. I continued to setup the roleplay of a government hating old man using /me during this time period. I grumbled to myself, etc. etc. 

I decided to leave the city, while doing so I encountered an unconstitutional government checkpoint. I was held at gunpoint and threatened by the police officer working the checkpoint. At this point I had been RP'ing for like 40 minutes or so. I had been pulled over and set the stage for my character, and 93 year old who didn't really give a shit - hated the government and thought his rights were being violated.

(The checkpoint was perfectly legal, and your RP in regards to government interaction as an old man out of the 40minutes that you we're doing this as, was in total 15-20minutes of it, as the majority was you as an old man yelling at youngsters for bumping your car and being a grumpy old man cutting wood telling people who questioned this "Old men can collect wood, trololz

A 93 year old man would not be cutting wood, even the most spry elderly people in the world would not be doing this due to the sheer risk to their physical well being)


I perpetuated this idea over the around hour long RP I was doing. The point in which my character snapped was at this checkpoint. After being released from the threatening officer, I decided to take the "facism" into my own hands by firing a shot at the officer whom had me at gunpoint at a seemingly unconstitutional checkpoint.
(A police officer pulling you aside and doing their job is not grounds for a kill right, whether you agree with their checkpoint or not, regardless of the RP you are infact doing, them pulling you aside for what I assume was your illegal firearm (Cannot confirm due to most of everything said to you was done through voice)

What youve done here is akin to someone RPing as a Serial Killer and useing that as justification for murdering the first person who "wrongs" them in any way)

I fired I think three shots, and I used a /me command to ensure the RP was appropriate. I think I only hit the cop once. This then incited a police chase in which I got into my old car, and headed to the main street garage where I pulled out my rifle, knowing that the police chase would inherently result in my demise (either going to jail for the rest of my life, or a firefight). I was shot.

(You fired on the officer, a fireman ran up to you, and you ran off to your car, drove AWAY from the city, fully able to escape, or continue driving in a straight line, you instead stopped, turned around, and drove right into the police leaving the city causing a police chase that ended with you bailing out at the city garage, a 93 year old man would NOT be walking away from his car crashing into a wall, let alone jumping out and pulling a gun on pursueing police officers)

After being shot my body glitched out and disappeared despite the presence of a medic being available. This resulted in my gun being dropped on the ground due to a glitch. So I ran back over, grabbed my gun, and then left the server.

Did I break NLR, technically yes - but the causation of my breaking of NLR was due to a glitch that shouldn't of happened. Therefore I believe it was justified in this particular scenario. It's just as though someone accidentally prop killed themselves, you usually let them back regardless of the NLR. I broke NLR due to an OOC reason, should I have asked - probably. Did I? No. Regardless though, I glitched out and didn't want my gun to be taken from a glitch. 

(It is not up to you to decide when you are allowed to ignore the NLR, would you have been allowed to collect it? Probably not considering the situation, if you feel something bugged out, you request an exemption via @, and if you do not get a response, the answer is an automatic no until confirmation can be aquired )


Evidence:
All applicable evidence can be found within the chat logs if you really feel like looking them up.

[Temar]

The bug seams to be that no ragdol was there
you was still injured and going to die with out help
which wasnt coming there was no paramedics
you were going to die regardless of bug

[Vauld]

Your Name: 
Vauld
Issued by: Please include the [L²]/[L²:M] tag.
[L²][F.I]BlackDog
Blacklist ID: 
70246, 70245
Server:
v33x
Why should you be unblacklisted?: 
So basically I came on the server for the first time in like 5 months or something. I decided to RP a grumpy old man, whom was upset and frustrated with the country as a whole. I started this RP by changing my job to "Old Man".

The first incident that led to the final outcome of this blacklist, was me being pulled over by a police officer inside the city. I was on the way to retrieve my hearing aide, and happened to have left my glasses at home. I was having a hard time driving and was as a result, pulled over. I used this opportunity to set a stage for my character and his development. I created a small scene about the ticket and proclaimed that I will not pay the facist government.

(The government was in no way dictorial nor facist, it was running 100% normal and its laws represented this)

Eh simply not true, it seemed to me to be very facist, and very non-democratic. Regardless of what you think is facist or not, I thought it was very authoritarian. Checkpoints leaving the city (Nazi-Germany checkpoints, facist), cops threatening me out of my car with a gun for a "checkpoint" (even more facist).

I made sure to RP that I was armed and had a tendency to be a little unpredictable. I used /me reaches for his wallet in his glove compartment, where a loaded revolver is located. Afterwards I proceeded to get out of my car and hobble around, causing the police officer to have to calm me down. I was basically setting the stage for an unpredictable 93 year old, who was slightly disoriented and had issues with the government.



Following the being pulled over I decided to attempt to go to the Nexus and have a discussion with the president over the state of the government. I continued to setup the roleplay of a government hating old man using /me during this time period. I grumbled to myself, etc. etc. 

I decided to leave the city, while doing so I encountered an unconstitutional government checkpoint. I was held at gunpoint and threatened by the police officer working the checkpoint. At this point I had been RP'ing for like 40 minutes or so. I had been pulled over and set the stage for my character, and 93 year old who didn't really give a shit - hated the government and thought his rights were being violated.

(The checkpoint was perfectly legal, and your RP in regards to government interaction as an old man out of the 40 minutes that you we're doing this as, was in total 15-20minutes of it, as the majority was you as an old man yelling at youngsters for bumping your car and being a grumpy old man cutting wood telling people who questioned this "Old men can collect wood, trololz

A 93 year old man would not be cutting wood, even the most spry elderly people in the world would not be doing this due to the sheer risk to their physical well being)

Now now, this simply isn't true. Please see below, a 90 year old man splitting wood with ease. This was not a "trololz" type of thing. This was me schooling a bunch of youngsters and promoting my RP of an old-man badass.



I perpetuated this idea over the around hour long RP I was doing. The point in which my character snapped was at this checkpoint. After being released from the threatening officer, I decided to take the "facism" into my own hands by firing a shot at the officer whom had me at gunpoint at a seemingly unconstitutional checkpoint.
(A police officer pulling you aside and doing their job is not grounds for a kill right, whether you agree with their checkpoint or not, regardless of the RP you are infact doing, them pulling you aside for what I assume was your illegal firearm (Cannot confirm due to most of everything said to you was done through voice)

The cop pulled a gun and told me to "get out of my vehicle" and that he needed to search through my car and my person before I can continue. He pointed a gun at my person without reason, leading me to feel threatened for my life. After the realization that I may live through the checkpoint - My character had enough of random searches, ignorant police, being threatened by government, and the way the USA had turned into a communist, facist country. Random search checkpoints, being held at gunpoint, it was like Nazi Germany!

What youve done here is akin to someone RPing as a Serial Killer and useing that as justification for murdering the first person who "wrongs" them in any way)

That's just ludicrous. I have a few ideas regarding this point. My first point is that, I honestly think that should be allowed. Having the job "Serial Killer" is just the same as having the job "Don Corleone" or "Mob Boss" or anything of the sort. The jobs imply an inherently more aggressive and violent character temperament. The way that people RP these characters is what really decides what is random, and what isn't. If my job is "Mob Boss" and I go around shooting everyone who I see, because I'm a "Mob Boss", then obviously the player should be punished. However if the player goes through meticulous character development to ensure that their behaviors match the character they've created - It shouldn't be an issue who they kill as long as it fits their character and isn't completely random. This is what gives RP diversity is that some players will be more aggressive, some passive, some just regular citizens. In my certain scenario, I had a seemingly nonthreatening job "Old Man" (which by the way is nothing close to "Serial Killer"). I decided to instead of taking the traditional route of roleplay, to spice things up a little bit. I threw in some character development and seemingly odd traits for an old man. I decided the old man would be a little more peppy, a little more aggressive, etc. 

I basically feel as though you blacklisted my weapons because you didn't like the development of my character, and it didn't fit with your views of who should kill who, or how an old man should react. I think that's a very narrow minded and even harmful view to administrate roleplay. The justification for my actions should be based on my character development - not a simple job title. In this case, I think I developed my character very nicely, and ALL of my actions and roleplay fit within the realm of possibilities for my character. I had a build-up to the final moment in which I took out my rifle, everything was a /me during my time roleplaying this character.

I fired I think three shots, and I used a /me command to ensure the RP was appropriate. I think I only hit the cop once. This then incited a police chase in which I got into my old car, and headed to the main street garage where I pulled out my rifle, knowing that the police chase would inherently result in my demise (either going to jail for the rest of my life, or a firefight). I was shot.

(You fired on the officer, a fireman ran up to you, and you ran off to your car, drove AWAY from the city, fully able to escape, or continue driving in a straight line, you instead stopped, turned around, and drove right into the police leaving the city causing a police chase that ended with you bailing out at the city garage, a 93 year old man would NOT be walking away from his car crashing into a wall, let alone jumping out and pulling a gun on pursueing police officers)

Sorry but that's just not true. I fired on the officer, retreated to my car. The fireman ran up to me, I got in my car, by this time the fireman had told Temar that I shot at a cop. I then proceeded to get in my car and drive (which happened to be in the direction of the city) Temar flew by me, so I decided to go into the city where I bumped (Not crashed) into the wall of the garage, and pulled out my firearm. 

After being shot my body glitched out and disappeared despite the presence of a medic being available. This resulted in my gun being dropped on the ground due to a glitch. So I ran back over, grabbed my gun, and then left the server.

Did I break NLR, technically yes - but the causation of my breaking of NLR was due to a glitch that shouldn't of happened. Therefore I believe it was justified in this particular scenario. It's just as though someone accidentally prop killed themselves, you usually let them back regardless of the NLR. I broke NLR due to an OOC reason, should I have asked - probably. Did I? No. Regardless though, I glitched out and didn't want my gun to be taken from a glitch. 

(It is not up to you to decide when you are allowed to ignore the NLR, would you have been allowed to collect it? Probably not considering the situation, if you feel something bugged out, you request an exemption via @, and if you do not get a response, the answer is an automatic no until confirmation can be aquired )

Well this wouldn't be an issue if my body didn't glitch out. The server is seemingly broken in a few ways, so it might be wise to fix these issues to avoid further confusion. I also see no rules claiming the process when dying from an OOC cause. I was under the assumption that if I died from an OOC cause, I could return. A warning would've been lovely. Not to mention the fact I immediately d/ced, so like what's the harm in that anyway? Its not like I went back to my death spot - got my car, and started driving away. I went back, picked up my gun which was a result of my glitching out, and then immediately d/ced following.

Evidence:
All applicable evidence can be found within the chat logs if you really feel like looking them up.

[Temar]

you did not die from an OOC cause, not having a ragdoll did not kill you
getting shot and having no paramedic available got you killed

[Vauld]

I'm pretty sure there was a paramedic on site? Or a fireman with a health kit?

[SirWulf]

Doesn't matter. NLR rules are very specific. Under no circumstances do you break NLR without Admin permission. There is no ifs ands ors.here. You breaking NLR for any reason without prior approval is punishable and enforced.

As for the woodcutting, that picture is an elderly getting firewood. He isn't chopping down trees for profit, he is chopping previously cut wood into pieces for his warmth. That is very different from doing it as a profession.

I'm sorry, but I'm in agreement here. An Old Man just isn't a great title for the actions that you did. This is a case where you went too far. You actually went from Citizen to Serial Killer in your RP. Old Man or not, even a seasoned hard core vet doesn't go on a mass murder spree just because he got pulled over a few times.

[Vauld]

The NLR is debatable further, based on what happened. However I will come to the agreement that it can be seen either way.

As for the woodcutting, I didn't become a lumber-jack. I just chopped down one or two pieces of wood to show the young kids how to do it. It wasn't like I suddenly became a lumberjack and started selling wood for profit. It was part of the strong old man persona.

Also WOAH. That's really extreme. "Citizen" to "Serial Killer". You just blew that WAY out of proportion. I didn't go on a mass-killing spree, I shot one cop who didn't even die, with a G2 Contender - Possibly the closest gun to a old single shot rifle. I didn't pull out an AR-15 and start mowing down cops. As I've explained, my shooting of this cop was due to RP reasons that accumulated over the course of my RP character.

[BlackDog]

I'll begin the final review of this after I'm back from work (7hrs from now), if there is anymore to say from Staff and Vauld please do post it.

[Vauld]

Seeing as my case is based upon perspective and different views of what is "Valid" - I would like to request that a supervising admin take a final review of the case. This isn't a misunderstanding case that evidence or my words would simply clarify things - It's a question of the validity of my roleplay, and the actions of the character I roleplayed. This is left to interpretation based on the exact scenario and actions. I believe my actions were justified due to the situation and roleplay, you believe they were not.

It would be utterly pointless for you to re-affirm your clearly strong views of my actions not being justified. As a result of the points stated - Once again, I think it would be best for a non-bias third party (SA) to take a look at the case and decide whether my actions were justified based on the arguments presented.

[Brynn]

As requested, Enzyme and myself will be dealing with this UBL as requested by BlackDog and yourself. Please allow for a little delay.

[Brynn]

Apologies for the delay Vauld. Will be dealt with in the next 48 hours.

[Brynn]

Sorry for the delay.

After reviewing the evidence, this will be denied.

I've looked at both sides, you saying you died due to a bug. Then we have Temar and BlackDog saying you would have died regardless of the 'glitch'. Now, regardless of you dying due to a bug/or not(or any) paramedics, NLR should have still been followed. You should of had administrator approval to return.

Thanks, Brynn.
Supervising Administrator - HR