[greg]

Your Name: Sgt. Donut

Ban ID: 3844 

Banned by: Please include the [L²]/[L²:M] tag. [L²:M] Toxic

Server: V4B1

Ban Reason: FailRP, stealing gov't vehicles without proper RP reason,hostaging police/ems without proper RP reason, Planning to hostage firemen without proper RP reason

Why should you be unbanned?: First off I never hostaged anyone. All we did was tie them up with rope so then did not call any back-up. WE also were never going to "Hostage" the Firemen. 

[Limelight Gaming]

The staff-members have received your unban-request, SgtDonut :D.

It will take a while for it to be reviewed.

[Wesley Lawrence]

Hello,

As I am the before said officer that was involved in the hostage situation, I'd like to (and was approved to) reply to your UBR.

Let me start off by giving you the definition of taking someone hostage. The source is, of course, Wikipedia.
A hostage is a person or entity which is held by one of two belligerent parties to the other or seized as security for the carrying out of an agreement, or as a preventive measure against war. However, in contemporary usage, it means someone who is seized by a criminal abductor in order to compel another party such as a relative, employer, law enforcement, or government to act, or refrain from acting, in a particular way, often under threat of serious physical harm to the hostage(s) after expiration of an ultimatum.

A person who seizes one or more hostages is known as a hostage-taker; if the hostages are present voluntarily, then the receiver is known as a host.

I will now provide pictures (that I have also provided at Noot Noot's UBR).


Picture 1:
This shows Noot Noot stating it was an accident. Sgt. Donut also stated this, but since the in-game chat only goes up to a certain limit, and my console was flooding with ''vertex errors'', it wiped out any evidence of him saying that.

My opinion: As said in Noot Noot's UBR. This wasn't an accident. Yes, you had the .44 on your body, so I will not say you took it out of your inventory. However, the fact that you've been heard saying you would shoot people up (whilst you had that job description active) as well as you having to scroll/tap a number to get that .44 out, means it was no split-second decision/accident/mistake. You two just got boxed in by two PPVs and saw no way out. Perfectly fine to act on when having a different job (if done correctly), but not as ''Chop Shop'' members.

Picture 2:
This shows you indeed taking me hostage, with Noot Noot in the background after putting the rope on me.

My opinion: You said you didn't take anyone hostage? Yikes. Either way, your job is set to ''Chop Shop''. Something I explained on Noot Noot's UBR; is quite an underground/secretive thing. It's not like you set up a Chop Shop on Grassy Field with some huge structure that instantly draws attention to LEOs, steal Govt. vehicles and plan to sell them back from that location. I am pretty sure you can figure out the description for ''Chop Shop'' yourself through Google or Wikipedia. It also isn't something that steals Govt. vehicles as parts from those type of vehicles are usually marked in a certain way and would be a pain in the bottom to get rid of/sell to anyone.

TL;DR:
As said on Noot Noot's UBR, you guys have had verbal warnings before. Not to forget that with the amount of hours you've got (about 250+ hrs.), you should've all known better than this.

[greg]

I want to say that I never hostage you. Only thing I did was hold you at gun point and made you walk so I could get a clean getaway

Wiki Def for hostage:
A hostage is a person or entity which is held by one of two 

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belligerent parties to the other or seized as security for the carrying out of an agreement, 

Noot tied you up so you would not call for back-up. As a safety measure. If we hostaged you we would have taken you to out base and kept you there.

Ban Reason:
FailRP, stealing gov't vehicles without proper RP reason,hostaging police/ems without proper RP reason, Planning to hostage firemen without proper RP reason


Everyone steals gov't vehicles but we get a ban for it? I never hostaged anyone and MYSELF was never going to "hostage" the firemen. All these claims are false or taken out of contex. FailRP I guess I understand. But 6 days? Come on, if not removed completely, being reduced would be an option as well.

EDIT: Gunpoint and hostage mean two different things

[Wesley Lawrence]

I want to say that I never hostage you. Only thing I did was hold you at gun point and made you walk so I could get a clean getaway

As you fail to read the whole description of ''hostage taking'' in my reply to your UBR, please allow me to point out the most important part of what I quoted from Wikipedia before:

However, in contemporary usage, it means someone who is seized by a criminal abductor in order to compel another party such as a relative, employer, law enforcement, or government to act, or refrain from acting, in a particular way, often under threat of serious physical harm to the hostage(s) after expiration of an ultimatum.


In this case:
> Someone is me;
> Criminal abductor(s) are you and Noot Noot;
> Other party is LE, so Govt. personnel;
> Refrain from acting in a particular way is clarified as you two wanting to get away safely making sure we will not turn around and engage a pursuit with you two again (see the thing I made bold in your quote);
> Under threat of serious physical harm to the hostage(s), see before named .44 caliber revolver pointed at my face.

Tied up subject/taking away subject's freedom + a firearm/weapon threat towards said subject = hostage taking.

If you really want I could upload a picture of my diploma/certificate as a Security Officer and thus law knowledge (certificate) to verify that I kind of know what I am talking about. (Also take note that hostage taking does not describe as someone being tied up and then being hugged to death over here in The Netherlands. It has the same meaning almost all everywhere in the world).


Please read my whole reply before attempting a comeback or comment on what I said. I will not reply to further replies by you unless actual facts or statements given.

[Toxic]

Hello Sgt Donut,
Both Noble and myself were phased behind the three of you as you were standing directly across the street plotting against the firemen once they had chased you away from their station. Various plots such as murder and hostage taking were in the air, and we were both about to freeze all three of you if you had decided to carry out your criminal intent on the firefighters, but at that point your group had decided to come back to it at a later time.

The point remains that you had taken Wesley hostage under gunpoint in the course of baiting him into a pursuit in your Hummer; and jusing by the evidence of your gun in his face, he was exacyly that.

[greg]

Hi Toxic,
I would like to say that I never tied up anyone. That was Noot Noot. I pulled out a .44 the minute they got out just because I did not want to get arrested. Noot tied up the officer so he would not call any backup. He then proceeded to take the car back to our chop shop. (With the low population of people being online we thought it would be okay to steal some gov't cars. I did not know that ONLY we taking him back to our base would be hostaging. I felt that I released him right after Noot left so I could leave as well. Once again sorry for that.

[H4MZ4]

baiting him into a pursuit in your Hummer

no its mine

[Toxic]

You have 12 hours to respond with meaningful evidence or proof as to why you should be unbanned or have your suspension reduced.

[greg]

The point remains that you had taken Wesley hostage under gunpoint in the course of baiting him into a pursuit in your Hummer; and jusing by the evidence of your gun in his face, he was exacyly that.

You basicley said that the FailRP, Planning to hostage firemen , Stealing gov't vehicles all does not matter. You are saying all the points in my ban reason :  FailRP, stealing gov't vehicles without proper RP reason,hostaging police/ems without proper RP reason, Planning to hostage firemen without proper RP reason
 
Don't matter EXCEPT "hostaging police/ems without proper RP  reason". Also I never hostaged any EMS, That was Noot Noot and I did not know about that.

[Toxic]

Conclusion: your chop shop had no RP background whatsoever other than a building with a wall around it, and you as well as your associates were not roleplaying as fitting to your characters by both acting and conspiring to take government workers hostage - and baiting the police into a car chase that caused you to reach that point - in a role that is meant to be discreet as well as avoiding attracting attention from law enforcement

[greg]

Conclusion: your chop shop had no RP background whatsoever other than a building with a wall around it, and you as well as your associates were not roleplaying as fitting to your characters by both acting and conspiring to take government workers hostage - and baiting the police into a car chase that caused you to reach that point - in a role that is meant to be discreet as well as avoiding attracting attention from law enforcement

I detained the officer, not hostaging him, I never did a hostage trade with anyone, I let him go by myself, if I hostaged him, I would have put at advert or a /911 call saying I want a trade for him. But I let him go. I also NEVER Tied him up, Logs can prove that, I only detained him at gun point.
This is a PR on me from before.

https://limelightgaming.net/forums/threa...hefaketaco

Blackdog himself says that Hostaging was not taking place, only detainment. If that applys there, how come when I tie up the officer that's hostaging. You are looking at this with wayyyy to much detail.

[BlackDog]

Please do note cite my cases out of context.

[BlackDog]

This UBR has been denied and closed at the handleing staffs request due to the accused not showing enough evidence or otherwise to change the decision