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[Sour Talk] The EU Referendum
Dick radio_button_checked
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#1
Jun 9, 2016, 10:05 PM
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_______Sour Talks_______
The EU Referendum


What are these "Sour Talks" threads about?

So, As a lot of the older members of the community know, I have been having it rough not longg in the back and I have been looking to keep positivity of not only myself but others as I have been trying to support others who I call friends or people I care for which are suffering from depression and more and I remember when I was doing things in schools, I got many mental bricks into my mind. I have decided to start writing threads like this so we can give luck or even discuss things to support each other as part of a community because without positivity or happiness in the world, life and seem a really dark and depressing place. I know this and I still see it like this for a long time so I thought we could have discussions with these "Sour Talks" and remember what it use to be like for people or what it is in that case for people who are like 194919 years old...
*cough cough* SirWulf *cough cough*


Sour Talk: The EU Referendum

So, as most people know who are from the United Kingdom, there is a big vote going on starting on the Thursday 23rd June 2016 to vote if the United Kingdom should stay in the UK, Personally - as I am english, I have fallen nosey to see what people think about the EU referendum and maybe even people who are foreign because I have been speaking to some of my friends and they don't know much about it. I know there was a chat about this when the EU Referendum started however, as it's coming closer to the end date, i was interested to see what people think about it. For those who don't know about the EU Referendum, I have left the UK Gov link detailing about the Referendum.

https://www.eureferendum.gov.uk/
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(This post was last modified: Dec 9, 2016, 10:54 PM by Dick. Edited 1 time in total.)
Toxic radio_button_checked
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#2
Jun 9, 2016, 11:32 PM
You kids have fun deciding that one. Peace out. O7
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Jono radio_button_checked
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#3
Jun 12, 2016, 12:55 PM
I am relatively undecided, but am leaning heavily towards the leave camp.

Someone please submit a factual based argument (with citations) to change my mind. Let the discussion begin?

Rule Britannia and that.

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Taylor radio_button_checked
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#4
Jun 12, 2016, 02:13 PM
The way I see it.

If we leave RIP trade, but then again we no longer have to bail Greece out.
Also we will receive little to no assistance from France in terms of border control, so I have a mixed opinion
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#5
Jun 12, 2016, 03:39 PM
I'm in the same boat of Jono, I just don't know. From watching the news and stuff I've not seen any evidence from either side, and I just see claims.
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Voluptious radio_button_checked
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#6
Jun 12, 2016, 11:24 PM
Video for Brexit (Britain Exit), which brings up the fact that the "stay" side is pumping out lots of scaremongering to push people to stay. Also quotes Norways' two referendums and how the scaremongering worked then.
https://youtu.be/7WiqTpQReY8

Video supporting the "Stay" side, bringing up facts and arguments on the cost of the EU and some possible unforseen consequences of leaving the EU. (Title of the video is slightly wrong though).
https://youtu.be/33BDDAUV8vg

MAKE SURE TO WATCH BOTH VIDEOS ENTIRELY IF YOU START.

If you want to be possibly influenced by my own opinion, read the spoiler below (REMEMBER IM NOT BRITISH)
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(This post was last modified: Jun 12, 2016, 11:37 PM by Voluptious. Edited 1 time in total.)
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Safira radio_button_checked
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#7
Jun 14, 2016, 04:25 AM
Personally I feel more inclined to stay in. (not that I'm allowed to vote yet lol)
Yes, the EU does limit trade somewhat and allow for free migration into the sacred British Isles, but from what I've seen most of the Leave arguments are more patriotic than  standing on solid grounds.

That's not to say it's completely invalid; but for example Boris' claim that we were being walked over (paraphrasing, can't remember exact quotes or statistics) because we had been overruled for 40 odd decisions - comparing to the 300+ decisions where the UK was listened to.

Slightly Off-topic, but I have a friend on Facebook who really likes to take the piss and make satirical posts regarding some generalised Brexiteer campaigns, if y'all interested. This isn't to say it's the view of all Leave-Voters. \
(Tryin' real hard to not to start any flame wars, is it working?)

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(This post was last modified: Jun 14, 2016, 04:26 AM by Safira.)
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General Rickets radio_button_checked
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#8
Jun 14, 2016, 06:18 PM
I will be voting leave.
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evilmat360 radio_button_checked
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#9
Jun 23, 2016, 08:55 AM
Time to go and vote for those who can
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Dig radio_button_checked
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#10
Jun 23, 2016, 01:10 PM
I could see a more independent Britain.
However I'm not really too fond of the
image represented by most of the parties
that have sprouted up to initiate this movement.

I think they need to really plan ahead a bit more.
Their campaign focuses too much on the part
about leaving the EU and not enough on how to
maintain a stable economy with trade on their
own.
1 When the heavens above did not exist,
2 And earth beneath had not come into being —
3 There was Apsû, the first in order, their begetter,
4 And demiurge Tia-mat, who gave birth to them all;
5 They had mingled their waters together
6 Before meadow-land had coalesced and reed-bed was to he found —
7 When not one of the gods had been formed
8 Or had come into being, when no destinies had been decreed,
9 The gods were created within them:
10 Lah(mu and Lah(amu were formed and came into being.
11 While they grew and increased in stature
12 Anšar and Kišar, who excelled them, were created.
13 They prolonged their days, they multiplied their years.
14 Anu, their son, could rival his fathers.
15 Anu, the son, equalled Anšar,
16 And Anu begat Nudimmud, his own equal.
17 Nudimmud was the champion among his fathers:
18 Profoundly discerning, wise, of robust strength;
19 Very much stronger than his father's begetter, Anšar
20 He had no rival among the gods, his brothers.
21 The divine brothers came together,
22 Their clamour got loud, throwing Tia-mat into a turmoil.
23 They jarred the nerves of Tia-mat,
24 And by their dancing they spread alarm in Anduruna.
25 Apsû did not diminish their clamour,
26 And Tia-mat was silent when confronted with them.
27 Their conduct was displeasing to her,
28 Yet though their behaviour was not good, she wished to spare them.
29 Thereupon Apsû, the begetter of the great gods,
30 Called Mummu, his vizier, and addressed him,
31 "Vizier Mummu, who gratifies my pleasure,
32 Come, let us go to Tia-mat!"
33 They went and sat, facing Tia-mat,
34 As they conferred about the gods, their sons.
35 Apsû opened his mouth
36 And addressed Tia-mat
37 "Their behaviour has become displeasing to me
38 And I cannot rest in the day-time or sleep at night.
39 I will destroy and break up their way of life
40 That silence may reign and we may sleep."
41 When Tia-mat heard this
42 She raged and cried out to her spouse,
43 She cried in distress, fuming within herself,
44 She grieved over the (plotted) evil,
45 "How can we destroy what we have given birth to?
46 Though their behaviour causes distress, let us tighten discipline graciously."
47 Mummu spoke up with counsel for Apsû—
48 (As from) a rebellious vizier was the counsel of his Mummu—
49 "Destroy, my father, that lawless way of life,
50 That you may rest in the day-time and sleep by night!"
51 Apsû was pleased with him, his face beamed
52 Because he had plotted evil against the gods, his sons.
53 Mummu put his arms around Apsû's neck,
54 He sat on his knees kissing him.
55 What they plotted in their gathering
56 Was reported to the gods, their sons.
57 The gods heard it and were frantic.
58 They were overcome with silence and sat quietly.
59 Ea, who excels in knowledge, the skilled and learned,
60 Ea, who knows everything, perceived their tricks.
61 He fashioned it and made it to be all-embracing,
62 He executed it skilfully as supreme—his pure incantation.
63 He recited it and set it on the waters,
64 He poured sleep upon him as he was slumbering deeply.
65 He put Apsû to slumber as he poured out sleep,
66 And Mummu, the counsellor, was breathless with agitation.
67 He split (Apsû's) sinews, ripped off his crown,
68 Carried away his aura and put it on himself.
69 He bound Apsû and killed him;
70 Mummu he confined and handled roughly.
71 He set his dwelling upon Apsû,
72 And laid hold on Mummu, keeping the nose-rope in his hand.
73 After Ea had bound and slain his enemies,
74 Had achieved victory over his foes,
75 He rested quietly in his chamber,
76 He called it Apsû, whose shrines he appointed.
77 Then he founded his living-quarters within it,
78 And Ea and Damkina, his wife, sat in splendour.
79 In the chamber of the destinies, the room of the archetypes,
80 The wisest of the wise, the sage of the gods, Be-l was conceived.
81 In Apsû was Marduk born,
82 In pure Apsû was Marduk born.
83 Ea his father begat him,
84 Damkina his mother bore him.
85 He sucked the breasts of goddesses,
86 A nurse reared him and filled him with terror.
87 His figure was well developed, the glance of his eyes was dazzling,
88 His growth was manly, he was mighty from the beginning.
89 Anu, his father's begetter, saw him,
90 He exulted and smiled; his heart filled with joy.
91 Anu rendered him perfect: his divinity was remarkable,
92 And he became very lofty, excelling them in his attributes.
93 His members were incomprehensibly wonderful,
94 Incapable of being grasped with the mind, hard even to look on.
95 Four were his eyes, four his ears,
96 Flame shot forth as he moved his lips.
97 His four ears grew large,
93 And his eyes likewise took in everything.
99 His figure was lofty and superior in comparison with the gods,
100 His limbs were surpassing, his nature was superior.
101 'Mari-utu, Mari-utu,
102 The Son, the Sun-god, the Sun-god of the gods.'
103 He was clothed with the aura of the Ten Gods, so exalted was his strength,
104 The Fifty Dreads were loaded upon him.
105 Anu formed and gave birth to the four winds,
106 He delivered them to him, "My son, let them whirl!"
107 He formed dust and set a hurricane to drive it,
108 He made a wave to bring consternation on Tia-mat.
109 Tia-mat was confounded; day and night she was frantic.
110 The gods took no rest, they . . . . . . .
111 In their minds they plotted evil,
112 And addressed their mother Tia-mat,
113 "When Apsû, your spouse, was killed,
114 You did not go at his side, but sat quietly.
115 The four dreadful winds have been fashioned
116 To throw you into confusion, and we cannot sleep.
117 You gave no thought to Apsû, your spouse,
113 Nor to Mummu, who is a prisoner. Now you sit alone.
119 Henceforth you will be in frantic consternation!
120 And as for us, who cannot rest, you do not love us!
121 Consider our burden, our eyes are hollow.
122 Break the immovable yoke that we may sleep.
123 Make battle, avenge them!
124 [ . . ] . . . . reduce to nothingness!
125 Tia-mat heard, the speech pleased her,
126 (She said,) "Let us make demons, [as you] have advised."
127 The gods assembled within her.
128 They conceived [evil] against the gods their begetters.
129 They . . . . . and took the side of Tia-mat,
130 Fiercely plotting, unresting by night and day,
131 Lusting for battle, raging, storming,
132 They set up a host to bring about conflict.
133 Mother H(ubur, who forms everything,
134 Supplied irresistible weapons, and gave birth to giant serpents.
135 They had sharp teeth, they were merciless . . . .
136 With poison instead of blood she filled their bodies.
137 She clothed the fearful monsters with dread,
138 She loaded them with an aura and made them godlike.
139 (She said,) "Let their onlooker feebly perish,
140 May they constantly leap forward and never retire."
141 She created the Hydra, the Dragon, the Hairy Hero
142 The Great Demon, the Savage Dog, and the Scorpion-man,
143 Fierce demons, the Fish-man, and the Bull-man,
144 Carriers of merciless weapons, fearless in the face of battle.
145 Her commands were tremendous, not to be resisted.
146 Altogether she made eleven of that kind.
147 Among the gods, her sons, whom she constituted her host,
148 She exalted Qingu, and magnified him among them.
149 The leadership of the army, the direction of the host,
150 The bearing of weapons, campaigning, the mobilization of conflict,
151 The chief executive power of battle, supreme command,
152 She entrusted to him and set him on a throne,
153 "I have cast the spell for you and exalted you in the host of the gods,
154 I have delivered to you the rule of all the gods.
155 You are indeed exalted, my spouse, you are renowned,
156 Let your commands prevail over all the Anunnaki."
157 She gave him the Tablet of Destinies and fastened it to his breast,
158 (Saying) "Your order may not be changed; let the utterance of your mouth be firm."
159 After Qingu was elevated and had acquired the power of Anuship,
160 He decreed the destinies for the gods, her sons:
161 "May the utterance of your mouths subdue the fire-god,
162 May your poison by its accumulation put down aggression."
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Dick radio_button_checked
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#11
Jun 23, 2016, 01:33 PM
(Jun 23, 2016, 08:55 AM)evilmat360 Wrote: Time to go and vote for those who can

Have fun, Mat.
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#12
Jun 23, 2016, 01:46 PM
Time to go vote that we remain inside the EU.
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Faustie radio_button_checked
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#13
Jun 23, 2016, 02:09 PM
I'll be voting remain, but it's a close call. I've looked at the economic and immigration arguments from both sides for quite some time now, and while some of the arguments sway me more to one side than the other, there is so much dirt and bullshit out there that it's hard to get a clear picture. Even the BBC Debate was a nuisance; bickering and posturing obscuring all of the facts.

What I do think is very clear is that a leave vote will be very detrimental to science, engineering, and technology as a whole. Research and development projects will be impacted, both small and large. While the internet and the open source movement will help to some degree, there is still a lot of confidential data that can only be accessed thanks to a shared EU membership. There are massive projects such as Sentinel, LISA, LHC, and many more that rely on international cooperation and funding. With so many EU countries saying they would play hardball if the UK left, that likely means a drop in cooperation on these projects, and a loss of shared data. We've seen many high-profile scientists, engineers, and Nobel Prize Laureates back remain for this very reason. While cooperation is still possible after a Leave vote (see how Russians and Americans get on in space), it's much less likely (they only did it out of necessity). If we reject the EU, can we really expect to remain a major player in the European Space Agency, or to see cooperation and data sharing between universities and other institutes to the degree we see today? I doubt it, and I've no reason to doubt the many scientists, engineers, doctors, etc. who have backed the remain camp on this issue.
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#14
Jun 23, 2016, 03:40 PM
If you weren't already persuaded and want to see a list of things that won't exist, head to the EU funding portal and have a look through all the projects, prgrammes etc.

The majority of them are all based around science etc and that will be a catastrophic loss to our universities , researchers etc.

https://portal.funding-portal.eu/eu-projects/list

Here's also a list of funding opportunities that won't be open to us any more https://www.funding-portal.eu/funding-opportunities/

This link may only be Scotland I'm not 100% but have a look none the less.

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.
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Safira radio_button_checked
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#15
Jun 23, 2016, 03:51 PM
It's important to put patriotism to the side in favour of looking at the little people.
If we leave, I know at least three people (or their dads) who will go out of business.

My own mother, who lives abroad (not even in the EU, she's in Asia) will have her business affected.
As Marty said, funds and research is largely subsidised by the EU. If we leave, who's going to do that?


I just sincerely hope the older generation don't ruin the vote for us. They're on their way out... kind of a dick move to leave us to clean up the result of their ingrained Germany hate.
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