Since the other thread was closed, continue the discussion here. Don't close this thread because there was literally no reason to close the other. One party disagreed and the owner got mad.
Rules of this:
1. This is not a safe space. All opinions are welcomed and should be treated respectfully.
2. Attack the argument, not the person.
3. Don't disregard arguments because they are rooted in a system of beliefs that differ yours.
Again, admins, don't close this thread. This is a serious discussion/debate.
Tagging those relevant to the last one:
Firstly i would like to thank for actually being smart and starting a different thread under the serious discussions, Nice one mate, and Secondly lets please keep the Topic civil and lets not go to insulting people (Not that its already happened)
Lets Begin:
I'll start by reiterating my position.
I don't care who you love. Be gay, bisexual, lesbian, straight, whatever. Have fun.
I also don't care if you are transgender/non-binary or anything as long as you don't force it upon me. Don't force me to call someone a boy or a girl or _____ pronoun because I don't believe in that.
That's my view, I think it is pretty centrist. I'd like to hear more.
As I more or less said in the last thread:
Ok cool, don’t really care about pride month and I don’t care what sexuality you are or what gender your prefer. I don’t care if you’re transgender either. You do you, but don’t expect everyone to care. I’m technically a Catholic but I don’t practice my faith often and am more of an atheist.
I agree with the idea though, that if an entire month is given to this cause, then other causes (such as veterans, ems, etc) should receive similar attention and “pride”, or just all have them as one day a year, no need to favour one over the other by giving one just a day and another a complete month.
I hope this thread can stay mature and not become an echo-chamber.
Happy discussing!
(Jun 14, 2019, 09:27 PM)Hungames Wrote: [ -> ]I'll start by reiterating my position.
I don't care who you love. Be gay, bisexual, lesbian, straight, whatever. Have fun.
I also don't care if you are transgender/non-binary or anything as long as you don't force it upon me. Don't force me to call someone a boy or a girl or _____ pronoun because I don't believe in that.
That's my view, I think it is pretty centrist. I'd like to hear more.
Yeah literally what i was gonna say, I dont mind gay trans,bi,lesbian whatever. But theres people who like to just Shove it in you're face which kinda annoys me because for some people who are Gay etc think they are something special and should we worshipped or something but most people on here are pretty chill bout it, its just a few.
They don’t deserve a month.
I’m ok with a person’s choice, as long as it doesn’t effect my life. If you got a dick, I’m gonna call you a dude as that is what I believe and I’m not changing because of someone trans. (I personally don’t think transgender people are in the right mindset, but that’s my hard opinion.)
They don’t deserve a month as one, it negatively effects LGBT by making it a hotspot for companies to shove rainbow shit down our throats, and two, it can cause negative impacts on the community as some of these gathering are a little risqué.
If you wanna party, party. But don’t do it in a BDSM costume in a parade designed to celebrate yourself when literally most people could care less.
(Jun 14, 2019, 11:10 PM)Gungranny Wrote: [ -> ]They don’t deserve a month.
I’m ok with a person’s choice, as long as it doesn’t effect my life. If you got a dick, I’m gonna call you a dude as that is what I believe and I’m not changing because of someone trans. (I personally don’t think transgender people are in the right mindset, but that’s my hard opinion.)
They don’t deserve a month as one, it negatively effects LGBT by making it a hotspot for companies to shove rainbow shit down our throats, and two, it can cause negative impacts on the community as some of these gathering are a little risqué.
If you wanna party, party. But don’t do it in a BDSM costume in a parade designed to celebrate yourself when literally most people could care less.
I don't think some of you understand how hard it is for some youth in communities where it is frowned upon for people who just want to love freely without judgment.
I've seen first hand young people nearly getting beaten to death because of who they love. I believe there is bigger issues to look at other than people celebrating a month of happiness and spreading joy and love. No matter what they believe.
Sure, you can say we don't deserve a month, but we can at least get a little respect for standing up for what we believe in and making light of it.
(Jun 14, 2019, 11:49 PM)26\ Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think some of you understand how hard it is for some youth in communities where it is frowned upon for people who just want to love freely without judgment.
I've seen first hand young people nearly getting beaten to death because of who they love. I believe there is bigger issues to look at other than people celebrating a month of happiness and spreading joy and love. No matter what they believe.
Sure, you can say we don't deserve a month, but we can at least get a little respect for standing up for what we believe in and making light of it.
I do believe that it needs to be acknowledged all of the hardships that you have gone through but in my opinion it is not worthy of an entire month. A day maybe at best. I also dislike the current parades and how the mainstream LGBT community is not one that is particularly peaceful and respectful of others as they trash streets, cause chaos during parades and exhibit somewhat strange behaviour out in public that would not usually be legal otherwise. Apart from that I do believe that they need to be recognised but I think that the mainstream population probably doesn't represent the rest.
oh and to be serious, im still debating if i want to be straight or gay but i think that answer may be gay, and i support all genders, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, pass them on
So I'll give my view on the subject. Previously I was slammed for "Bible bashing" and waving "cherry-picked scripture" despite not even once quoting from the Bible. My view is rooted in my Catholic faith and pairs with my High Tory politics.
I do not agree with homosexual relationships being about 'love' because, in the context of romantic relationships, love is ultimately affirmed in the Sacrament of Matrimony and leads onto procreation through intercourse. The only purpose of intercourse is for procreation, and "cultivating of mutual love" in the case of using periods of infertility as natural contraception (natural family planning).
So, marriage, sex and procreation are inseparable. Homosexuality, therefore, is against the natural law because a homosexual couple can never procreate and bring forth God's gift of children. As a result, a homosexual relationship separates that sacred bond between body and soul.
Pope Benedict XVI stated in Deus caritas est that the fullness of a person is achieved by a unity of soul and body, but neither spirit nor body alone can love, only the two together. If this unity is broken, if only the body is satisfied, love becomes a commodity.
It is also due to this violation of the natural law that the Sacrament of Matrimony can not be received by homosexual couples, and so sexual relations is immoral in that sense as well.
As for gender ideology, that is not even religious dogma - it's scientific fact that there exists only man or women. Females have at least one X allosome and no Y allosomes - that means those with monosomy X are female and those with trisomy X, tetrasomy X, pentasomy X, etc are also female. Males have at least one Y allosome and at least one X allosome (as a human cannot develop without crucial genes located on an X allosome), so XY, XXY, XXXY, XYY, etc are all males.
Gender/sex cannot be different, there is no logical sense to this. You cannot reject religion for irrationality but somehow accept gender ideology as rational. Gender dysphoria is, medically, a mental illness and we should provide support to those suffering its symptoms.
So yeah. For homosexuality, Church teaching is clear and I follow the Church in its instruction of morality and interpretation of the natural law. For genderisms, science is clearcut on that.
And for those who are going to act like "Reeeeeee, Bible basher" you should really look up what that term means - such "Bible bashers" are completely anti-Catholic and I have to face them daily in my apologetics. "Bible bashing" is rooted in the belief of sola scriptura - the Bible should be the only thing considered when deciding teachings. This is not a belief held by the Catholic Church. "Bible bashing" is aggressively evangelical and would more be likened to the 'cherry-picking' of scripture that Monty stated, although incorrectly accused me of doing.
Pax Christi
(Jun 15, 2019, 12:45 AM)Lord Octagon Wrote: [ -> ]So I'll give my view on the subject. Previously I was slammed for "Bible bashing" and waving "cherry-picked scripture" despite not even once quoting from the Bible. My view is rooted in my Catholic faith and pairs with my High Tory politics.
I do not agree with homosexual relationships being about 'love' because, in the context of romantic relationships, love is ultimately affirmed in the Sacrament of Matrimony and leads onto procreation through intercourse. The only purpose of intercourse is for procreation, and "cultivating of mutual love" in the case of using periods of infertility as natural contraception (natural family planning).
So, marriage, sex and procreation are inseparable. Homosexuality, therefore, is against the natural law because a homosexual couple can never procreate and bring forth God's gift of children. As a result, a homosexual relationship separates that sacred bond between body and soul.
Pope Benedict XVI stated in Deus caritas est that the fullness of a person is achieved by a unity of soul and body, but neither spirit nor body alone can love, only the two together. If this unity is broken, if only the body is satisfied, love becomes a commodity.
It is also due to this violation of the natural law that the Sacrament of Matrimony can not be received by homosexual couples, and so sexual relations is immoral in that sense as well.
As for gender ideology, that is not even religious dogma - it's scientific fact that there exists only man or women. Females have at least one X allosome and no Y allosomes - that means those with monosomy X are female and those with trisomy X, tetrasomy X, pentasomy X, etc are also female. Males have at least one Y allosome and at least one X allosome (as a human cannot develop without crucial genes located on an X allosome), so XY, XXY, XXXY, XYY, etc are all males.
Gender/sex cannot be different, there is no logical sense to this. You cannot reject religion for irrationality but somehow accept gender ideology as rational. Gender dysphoria is, medically, a mental illness and we should provide support to those suffering its symptoms.
So yeah. For homosexuality, Church teaching is clear and I follow the Church in its instruction of morality and interpretation of the natural law. For genderisms, science is clearcut on that.
And for those who are going to act like "Reeeeeee, Bible basher" you should really look up what that term means - such "Bible bashers" are completely anti-Catholic and I have to face them daily in my apologetics. "Bible bashing" is rooted in the belief of sola scriptura - the Bible should be the only thing considered when deciding teachings. This is not a belief held by the Catholic Church. "Bible bashing" is aggressively evangelical and would more be likened to the 'cherry-picking' of scripture that Monty stated, although incorrectly accused me of doing.
Pax Christi
![[Image: hSdi7wU.gif]](https://i.imgur.com/hSdi7wU.gif)
(Jun 15, 2019, 01:17 AM)26\ Wrote: [ -> ] (Jun 15, 2019, 12:45 AM)Lord Octagon Wrote: [ -> ]-snip-
this is a serious
discussion. thanks
(Jun 15, 2019, 01:36 AM)Hungames Wrote: [ -> ] (Jun 15, 2019, 01:17 AM)26\ Wrote: [ -> ] (Jun 15, 2019, 12:45 AM)Lord Octagon Wrote: [ -> ]-snip-
this is a serious discussion. thanks
Shouldn't need discussing, but thanks for moderating.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
Same conversation, looks like its going down the same road. Probably because same people and same standpoints. Expecting this not to end up like the last is textbook insanity.
Lemme see. Got Black History Month. Pride Month. Military gets three days, segregated by whether they are living, dead, or no longer in service. Not saying that people don't struggle for their beliefs, but when the people who die daily only get one day depending on which life state they are in, I don't feel like anyone really deserves a whole month.
That being said, I don't make the policy (probably for the best), so enjoy your pride month. If you're LGBTQ, do that. If you're anti LGBTQ, you have 10 other months of the year you could opt to get for your anti-LGBTQ month. Religion always makes me giggle because there is almost always evidence of older religions that are magically invalidated because they believe their religion is the correct one. May Thor beat on his anvil with all his might during every outdoor celebration you have.