[Memeimrich]

Your Name: 
Memeimrich

Issued by:
[L²] BlackDog

Blacklist ID: 
74338

Server:
Both

Why should you be unblacklisted?: 
Nowhere in the rules does it state I must roleplay with police officers before killing them while they arrest my friend (and fellow gang and clan member).

Evidence:
https://limelightgaming.net/derma/rules.php (Specifically the In-Game Rules section.)

[Limelight Gaming]

The staff-members have received your unblacklist-request, Memeimrich.

It will take a while for it to be reviewed.

[BlackDog]

Memeimrich you have been punished for a similar offence of the same type in a previous incident.

You cannot just run up, murder an officer because your friend was being detained much the same way you cannot just murder an officer for trying to pull you over for a traffic violation or for simply  detaining a friend or gang member as you do not know the situation, and thus could not possibly be granted a valid kill right on the person you had shot. 

Assumptions do not equal a kill right.

Your situation becomes worse when you account for the fact you crashed, rejoined, and immediately went back there with hostile intent, and began to shoot the officers in the area, without knowing full well in an IC mannor what was going before opening fire.

Do you have anything to add?

[Memeimrich]

Memeimrich you have been punished for a similar offence of the same type in a previous incident.

You cannot just run up, murder an officer because your friend was being detained much the same way you cannot just murder an officer for trying to pull you over for a traffic violation or for simply  detaining a friend or gang member as you do not know the situation, and thus could not possibly be granted a valid kill right on the person you had shot. 

Assumptions do not equal a kill right.

Your situation becomes worse when you account for the fact you crashed, rejoined, and immediately went back there with hostile intent, and began to shoot the officers in the area, without knowing full well in an IC mannor what was going before opening fire.

Do you have anything to add?

First of all, I did not immediately go back with hostile intent, I made a decision after spotting the situation. I also assumed with the knowledge of my gang being very illegal in most all of its actions, that the ~4-5 officers I saw on scene most likely had a reason to arrest my friend/clanmate/gangmember and that he'd like my help. I'd say I was right seeing as soon as he was freed he came over and said he was gonna kill them all. Also, I know you're a fan of real life situations and roleplay situations that mimic them. Are you going to drive down to Chicago and hand out blacklists to the gangbangers blasting cops in the street for looking at them crossway? Also also, what "previous incident" are you referring to exactly?

[BlackDog]

The incident I refer to is Blacklist ID: 71971

You crashed,returned to the situation, and began to open fire on police officers for what you assumed was going on, even though due to your not involving yourself in the RP at hand, you would have no RP method to know the situation, and thus opening fire on police officers with intent to kill is unacceptable as you had no way to gain a kill-right.

Assumptions do not equal a kill-right in a situation you are not involved in fully.

Do you have anything more to add to this before it is concluded?

[Memeimrich]

-snip-

Do you have anything more to add to this before it is concluded?

Yes, but give me a moment, I'm feeling ill. I'll respond shortly unless you decide to be curt again.

[Memeimrich]

The incident I refer to is Blacklist ID: 71971

You crashed,returned to the situation, and began to open fire on police officers for what you assumed was going on, even though due to your not involving yourself in the RP at hand, you would have no RP method to know the situation, and thus opening fire on police officers with intent to kill is unacceptable as you had no way to gain a kill-right.

Assumptions do not equal a kill-right in a situation you are not involved in fully.

Do you have anything more to add to this before it is concluded?

Ah yes, one of your blacklists. I don't think you even listened to me or checked the logs in that situation to see it was in fact the same officer. And, not to mention, that was over half a year ago and isn't too relevant. Anyways, that's all besides the point, I'll now give an analogy to justify my actions. Let's say you're driving and suddenly you see your friend in the distance and, oh no! A man in a hoodie has a gun pointed at your buddy! You know you're a sure shot so you decide to take your good ole hunting rifle from your truck and pop a shot into the thug. Is that not justified? Even in Limelight? Yes, of course it is, but for all we know it could be an undercover officer, maybe a citizen's arrest, or maybe they were shooting a video. But sometimes assumptions happen because there isn't time to explore other possibilities. Why can I not do the same thing to an officer that appears to be endangering my fellow gang member/friend/clanmate's life and freedom? I understand it'd be a whole different situation if one friendly officer with only a sidearm in his holster had my buddy pulled over, but the situation I witnessed seemed to place my friend/gang member/clanmate's life in danger.

[Memeimrich]

I'd also appreciate it if an unbiased staff member or members also looked at this unblacklist request. You (BlackDog) issued it and therefore are quite biased to my "guilt", just as I am biased that I am innocent.

[Memeimrich]

Sorry for a mass of posts, but I also have another extremely relevant analogy. I have often been shot at by police officers when I pull out my CC and chase after a mugger or whenever someone has engaged me in a firefight where I'm the defender. It's a tricky situation where assumptions are made because it's not easy to quickly gain the facts. I'm simply on the opposite side of the coin in my situation. I could have been shot or arrested too if I had approached the situation, just as the cop could have been shot if I had actually been the mugger rather than the defender in my analogy. Sometimes you just have to make a decision because the potential of not involving yourself can be worse than what is happening.

[Overlewd]

For an in-game situation like this I would have to very carefully analyse the context and take a while to consider whether a rule violation has occured, so making a decision without being there or having video evidence is difficult. That said, with the information I gathered from this thread and from BlackDog, I can't say that the judgement was incorrect or that this case requires further intervention from an outside party.


Will leave this to @BlackDog to conclude.

[BlackDog]

Appeal denied:

In the future: Upon crashing, do not rejoin and run back to an inprogress Police/Criminal situation with imediate hostile/lethal intent. Check with staff or those involved to determine when you may re-enter the situation