[Ollie630]

Your Name: 
[KG:M] Constrictor.

Issued by: 
[font=open_sansregular, Arial, sans-serif][L²] SirWulf  @SirWulf [/font]

Blacklist ID: 
71433
71434
71435


Server:
v4b1

Why should you be unblacklisted?: 
I'll say what happened, which then caused this Blacklist.

So, firstly my friends car was in the lake, so he decided to prop-push it out. SirWulf then spoke to us saying that we should only prop-push a car if a staff member is not available. He got the car out, but stayed watching us as we moved on. 

Then, I accidentally drove my car into the lake, and called a staff member as he told me to do, and asked SirWulf in voice chat to get it out (seeing as he was there which will be proven by the screenshots) but he decided not to. I attempted to roleplay the situation out, by using /me's and /it's. 

May I remind you that it was half-in and half-out, so if I requested an admin it would have been a waste of time for both the staff member, and myself. After I prop-pushed it out, SirWulf, without confronting me, PTE Blacklisted me.

Now, you may say that I should've called a tow truck, or waited for a staff member's response. Firstly, there were no Mechanics on, so I could not call a tow truck. Neither were there any custom job titles that had anything to do with tow trucking. Secondly, seeing as I knew SirWulf was there, there was no point in using @ a second time. Also, like I said before, it would've been a waste of time for a staff member to push out a car that is only half-in the lake.

If SirWulf was there, and could hear me/see me asking for help then instead of just watching me, he could have pulled my car out of the lake, so that I didn't have to prop-push it out. Finally, seeing as there were only two staff members on, they must've been getting a lot of calls. And, like I said to Wulf, staff members often get annoyed if you keep asking in @ chat. Plus, my call would've been low priority, and a waste of time for the staff member's.

Evidence:
PM of Wulf showing that he was there, seeing as he saw me jump onto the roof of the car when I got out: (I'm not sure whether this is needed, but I'll post it anyway)

Limelight - Link watcher

You're about to enter the following site: https://gyazo.com/4fa7dadf77e188bf7f62369578cf8be0v Please note: You should only visit trusted sites. We are not responsible for any loss of your privacy.

https://gyazo.com/4fa7dadf77e188bf7f62369578cf8be0v

Thank you for reading my UBL,
Constrictor.

[Limelight Gaming]

The staff-members have received your unblacklist-request, Constrictor.

It will take a while for it to be reviewed.

[SirWulf]

Alright, so this is where I'm sitting:

First of all, this would be the third call that we received in a short time span between you and your friend in which vehicles had gotten stuck in the lake.  I was not able to respond to the first one as I was on a different call at the time.  Now let me point out the server rule:

17.2 When your vehicle is stuck, call an admin. You can gently try to move it with a prop if required. When your vehicle is upside down you should use /flip to flip it.

Let's go over that.  First thing that should be attempted is to contact an admin.  Now if your vehicle is stuck on a curb, a prop or just not quite making it over a speed bump, it is acceptable to use a prop to gently nudge the vehicle with a small prop.  However, fishing a vehicle out of the lake requires a lot more than that.

I understand that in this case the vehicle was halfway out of the water already.  But it was stuck enough that a gentle nudge would not work.  Now, you could roleplay this.  Getting a towtruck, government vehicle or 4x4 to use a winch the vehicle out using a spawned hook, that is good roleplay.

Just saying that a floating barrel is enough to move a stuck vehicle out of the lake and onto dry land... that is not enough.

Now let's talk about the timeframe:

[21:57:15] [KG:M] Constrictor (STEAM_0:1:59960025)
@ Requests: This time my car is stuck
[21:57:15] [KG:M] Constrictor (STEAM_0:1:59960025)
said: @This time my car is stuck
[21:57:42] [KG:M] Constrictor (STEAM_0:1:59960025)
said: /me attempts to push the car out with a floating barrel
[21:57:43] [KG:M] Constrictor (STEAM_0:1:59960025)
used command: me attempts to push the car out with a floating barrel
[21:57:44] [KG:M] Constrictor (STEAM_0:1:59960025)
has spawned models/props_borealis/bluebarrel001.mdl
[21:58:04] [KG:M] Constrictor (STEAM_0:1:59960025)
said: /it It works
[21:58:05] [KG:M] Constrictor (STEAM_0:1:59960025)
used command: it It works

It took you 30 seconds from the time you made the @ request to when you spawned the barrel.  That does not include the time it took to type the /me response and then select the prop from your inventory.  That gives very little time for anybody to respond.

Now, I was there typing a response to you when I saw the prop spawn.  The reason I was typing to you was because you were standing on top of the vehicle and I was going to ask you to get off of it so that I wouldn't kill you.  As this happened very shortly after I asked the both of you not to prop push vehicles out of the lake, I was very disappointed to see such a quick disregard to my advice.

Let me quote a prior call:

[21:48:29] [KG:M] Constrictor (STEAM_0:1:59960025)
@ Requests: Please can someone wake my friend up? Or bring him back? I accidently prop killed him

10 minutes prior you killed your friend doing the exact same thing.  And that is exactly why we ask that you get admins to move the vehicles for you.  To prevent this from happening.

In light of all of this I had decided to issue you this 2 hour PTE blacklist.  Which, I feel is very fair as you were basically prop-pushing and prop-killing.  Whether accidental or not, it is still a server violation that could have been avoided altogether.

[Ollie630]

Thank you for your reply...

For the first call we made regarding him being injured, he was behind my car at the time. This was due to the fact that his car was also stuck, and I did not realise that he was there at the time.

Now, for the rule of: 
17.2 When your vehicle is stuck, call an admin. You can gently try to move it with a prop if required. When your vehicle is upside down you should use /flip to flip it.

I gently moved it with a prop, but he was behind me at the time, meaning that my car nudged into him, but there seems to be a new update when a tap makes it look like a 10000 mph hit.

As I said, there was no Mechanics online, nor were there any custom job titles to do with recovery. I could have called a 4x4 or the Police, but then we would have had to wait for a staff response, where there is a high chance that the staff would not do it for such a small thing.

Yeah, it was a short duration of time. However, if you were watching, then you could have moved it out the way instead of watching me do the commands etc. You may say that it would've been rude to drag me off with your phys-gun, but there was plenty of time that I was off the car when I was typing/spawning the correct prop in.

I did accidentally kill him, but the second time I got my car stuck, I did not kill him nor did I kill anybody else. We were both on teamspeak at the time (Under the name's of Constrictor and Codeye) and he stood to the left to make sure nobody was there, whilst I checked behind. This meant that it was safe enough for us to push the vehicle out with the prop. As soon as the car had been safely pushed out, I was blacklisted.

I appreciate the small blacklist time, however I was not breaking the prop-pushing rule. As I showed before, you can carefully prop-push the car. We were careful the second time, after learning about the tap = instant death thing so we kept checking that we were clear to push it out. We waited when someone walked past, so that the same thing didn't happen to them.

[SirWulf]

Thank you for your reply...

For the first call we made regarding him being injured, he was behind my car at the time. This was due to the fact that his car was also stuck, and I did not realise that he was there at the time.

Now, for the rule of: 
17.2 When your vehicle is stuck, call an admin. You can gently try to move it with a prop if required. When your vehicle is upside down you should use /flip to flip it.

I gently moved it with a prop, but he was behind me at the time, meaning that my car nudged into him, but there seems to be a new update when a tap makes it look like a 10000 mph hit.

As I said, there was no Mechanics online, nor were there any custom job titles to do with recovery. I could have called a 4x4 or the Police, but then we would have had to wait for a staff response, where there is a high chance that the staff would not do it for such a small thing.

Yeah, it was a short duration of time. However, if you were watching, then you could have moved it out the way instead of watching me do the commands etc. You may say that it would've been rude to drag me off with your phys-gun, but there was plenty of time that I was off the car when I was typing/spawning the correct prop in.

I did accidentally kill him, but the second time I got my car stuck, I did not kill him nor did I kill anybody else. We were both on teamspeak at the time (Under the name's of Constrictor and Codeye) and he stood to the left to make sure nobody was there, whilst I checked behind. This meant that it was safe enough for us to push the vehicle out with the prop. As soon as the car had been safely pushed out, I was blacklisted.

I appreciate the small blacklist time, however I was not breaking the prop-pushing rule. As I showed before, you can carefully prop-push the car. We were careful the second time, after learning about the tap = instant death thing so we kept checking that we were clear to push it out. We waited when someone walked past, so that the same thing didn't happen to them.

It proves my point.  The reason we ask that you contact an Admin is to prevent accidental death or having cars flung around.  And, as I stated the first time:

"Now if your vehicle is stuck on a curb, a prop or just not quite making it over a speed bump, it is acceptable to use a prop to gently nudge the vehicle with a small prop.  However, fishing a vehicle out of the lake requires a lot more than that."

Getting a vehicle out of the lake is not gentle, it requires a lot more than that.  Nudging is when a vehicle gets stuck on a curb and just needs a small tap to keep it moving.

Tow Truck or no, there is plenty of chance to turn this into a roleplay.  As an example, I'm a firefighter a lot when I'm on to play.  There is a lot of cases in which I'm called out to extract a vehicle from the lake, it is one of my roles as a firefighter.  I'm able to roleplay using a winch on my vehicle then spawning a hook to simulate the winch pushing the vehicle out of the lake and onto dry land.  You could have even had your friend use his car.  He could have '/me attaches a rope to the bumper of both vehicles' and you two could have roleplayed together to extract your vehicle.  This is something that I've been doing for years, well before I was an admin.  It works nicely and adds RP to the server.

You could not have guaranteed that I was watching.  I could have been watching another call, teleported to another part of the map or even had gone away from game to review things from the forums or something.  And like I said, I had arrived in time to see you on top of your vehicle, I was in the process of messaging you asking that you move away from the car so that I can then move the vehicle without causing harm.  You gave me less than 30 seconds to arrive and respond.  That is very little time at all, especially considering I had already warned you both from doing the same thing 10 minutes prior.

You should not assume, you should give the admin time to respond, same as if you contact the police, fire or medic.  It will be rare to see an immediate response, give it 5 minutes at least.

Now, do you have anything else to say before we make a decision?

[Ollie630]

There was a very small chance that he was going to be behind my car, due to the fact that I told him to move, which he said he did but he must've moved back to push his car.

It really does not take more than a nudge to push out a half-in half-out car, it requires the same amount of force as it normally would to push a car off a kerb.

I'm pretty sure that there weren't any firemen on at the time, so that would not have been possible. In response to your second point about using my friends car, he was using a Ford Focus. The car that I got stuck in the lake (A Bentley Continental GT) is definitely a lot heavier than that, so it would have been FailRP for us to do that.

I knew that you were there, due to the fact that you had not left the lake. It was quite obvious that you were going to watch us, hence why I attempted to ask you to push my car out. I then proceeded to roleplay the situation out the best I could, by RPing finding a floating barrel and using that to help me push it out of the lake.

I understand that, and I would've if you weren't clearly still watching us after the situation.

That is all I have to say, unless you would like to add anything else. @SirWulf

[SirWulf]

Alright, I'm going to deny this.  A warning was given prior and overall it is dangerous to just assume.  Yes, I was still at the lake but I was reading and researching my next report.  I wasn't just watching.

Our definitions of slight nudging seems to differ so allow me to post some oddball pictures as an example:

This happy couple has their car stuck on the curb.  Now in the world of CityRP, this is a situation that could be resolved by another vehicle simply nudging it, or a small prop to just slightly tap the vehicle to get it off of the curb.

Now in this case, we have a vehicle that is stuck in the water, it is not fully submerged but partially.  In this case it is not simply nudging the vehicle, or having another vehicle assist like above.  This requires a greater force to get it out.  This is where you are going to want to ensure that admins are aware of this and give them a chance to get the vehicle out.  Yes, you can spawn a barrel and push it into the water and push the vehicle out, but this is not a simple nudge.

... yeah.  At this point you might as well just quit the game.  How you got your car in this spot to begin with is a special achievement.  Just wow.

I hope this helps explains things a bit.