[Joulle]

Your Name: 

Issued by: [L²][F.I]BlackDog

Blacklist ID: 70181

Server: v4b1

Why should you be unblacklisted?: We had stabbed a police officer to an injured state, we ran outside towards our car. Then we saw a police officer and thought we'd get caught so we decided to act like we were the victims. He believed us and ran towards the door of the motel room we had which was less than 10 meters from our parked car. I knew he's gonna notice quite soon that there's no one inside and a police officer is injured on the floor, this is because the motel room is very small (it's the map's motel room). Because of this, I stabbed him - in other words I silenced him for a while so that we could try and escape and lay low till the police stop looking for us.


So to my logic the police officer would have rushed outside to try and catch us since he just realised that we're the only ones around and we ran from the same room where we pointeded him to.

I don't know if this right or wrong here anymore, but at the time of committing this act I thought it's a very clever way to deal with this so that we'll get away from justice.

I heard someone called the police there (or maybe I misunderstood??), but I had no knowledge of that. Me and the 2 players around the motel didn't use any sort of 3rd party communications so I have no idea what they were planning in their own heads. Don't blame me if someone lured them because I didn't necessarily lure them there other than for the last stab about 10 meters from the cars nearby so that we'd get away.

Evidence: 

Limelight - Link watcher

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https://youtu.be/LMG9kavJh6g

[Limelight Gaming]

The staff-members have received your unblacklist-request, Joulle.

It will take a while for it to be reviewed.

[Joulle]

You want us players to deal with every criminal situation in the same generic way?
No creativity or cleverness allowed?

Sounds pretty dull to me.
This is how I understood this blacklist, do let me know if I should learn something else from this!!

[Project]

*Involved as I was the first officer stabbed*

A 3rd party called in a woman with a shotgun at the motel, upon arriving I attempted to tase her but you was next to him so I accidentally tased you both once, after I got both of you up (didn't handcuffed you as I was thinking you was the victim) the woman went to the back of your apartment and I followed her after you moved off the front door, upon opening the back door you stabbed me as I called for backup as the woman was pointing her shotgun. You then told the officer to come in your place while you had just stabbed an officer, before he even saw me you stabbed him too.

About the second stabbing:
You could have told him she ran away, she was in another apartment but you intentionally pointed him to your apartment with me inside and stabbed him before he could even know. You could had very easily said the woman did this to me.

In both situations you was seen as the victims not the other way around.

[BlackDog]

Project sums it up quite well actualy.

There we're many different ways you could have gone about this, insteaad you chose the worst one imaginable.

Lure police into room, murder them.

When another shows up, don't lie to them about the situation to avoid it, show them the body of the officer you just murdered, then murder them.

This is an unacceptable way to conduct yourself and i advice a good long reread of our rules.

[Joulle]

*Involved as I was the first officer stabbed*

A 3rd party called in a woman with a shotgun at the motel, upon arriving I attempted to tase her but you was next to him so I accidentally tased you both once, after I got both of you up (didn't handcuffed you as I was thinking you was the victim) the woman went to the back of your apartment and I followed her after you moved off the front door, upon opening the back door you stabbed me as I called for backup as the woman was pointing her shotgun. You then told the officer to come in your place while you had just stabbed an officer, before he even saw me you stabbed him too.

About the second stabbing:
You could have told him she ran away, she was in another apartment but you intentionally pointed him to your apartment with me inside and stabbed him before he could even know. You could had very easily said the woman did this to me.

In both situations you was seen as the victims not the other way around.

I had no idea of a third party calling the police to the motel so don't blame me for it as I had nothing to do with it. You didn't even get to the back door since you were stabbed unconscious in the middle of the room with one single stab. If you bothered to read my post understand it instead of just ignoring parts of it in your mind you'd know this and you skipped the part where we ran outside and I got to the car while the others were slightly behind. I noticed the police (you) got out of the vehicle and started looking at us which seemed to be like in a way that we're the criminals who you were called to deal with, apparently. I made a quick decision: Fool the officer that the criminal is still in the motel which would give us additional time to escape but then I realized that my vehicle is surrounded by cars so it would've been very slow to get on the road and away with the car just like that so I had to do something. I stabbed the officer - swift and quiet. Seemed like a clever decision - we would've been on the other side of the map at the time additional backup arrives.

Had we told the police officer that the criminal ran away he could've detained us for questioning or just not believed us since we just ran from the murder scene straight outside and the police probably saw where we came from since he was quickly on to us after we ran out (at least so I thought). I had no idea she ran to the other apartment either, in fact I had no idea where she was since I was so concentrated on the police officer getting stabbed I didn't see her run out. This actually would be understandable in a situation like this since some people react to a person getting seriously wounded/injured next to you, BY YOU in different ways, like getting shocked or extremely anxious to which my concentration at the time could be compared to.

This is why I forwarded the police officer to our room since I had no idea what's going on in a way described above. My understanding of the situation at the time could be compared to being a bit shocked (just bad concentration and excitement) and I don't see anything wrong with it, in fact I see that as a good way of role playing. No one makes the most rational choise every time and even if we repeated the same situation 20 times without you telling me what to do, I'd most likely still do something clever as this. Besides, to my understanding role playing as not the most clever or rational person is acceptable. If there's only your one way for every situation then there's no creativity allowed which means this server could be made in to a simulation ran by robots which we could watch. Just roll a dice and decide which methods the criminal is going to use to deal with an rp situation since you told us there are multiple ways to deal with and mine's the worst one apparently, when it comes to rules, not IC laws and knowledge and knowing how people might act or react to certain situations.

I don't see anything wrong with what I did and I was never explained what's wrong with this in a way that I'll understand and I asked for an explanation, instead I was told to come here. I believe you would've had time to explain the situation since you had time to stay on the server for about 15 minutes before you disconnected and went on to these forums to reply to multiple threads. You could've at least told me that you'll explain me tomorrow. I came here and complained and what do I get? Nothing that explains why this is wrong, instead I just get told this is simply wrong without an explanation as to why this is wrong. The rules aren't specific enough to explain every role play scene. I've read the rules a couple times before and done my best to understand them and I don't see this as the wrong way to deal with the situation.


In addition to all this, I'm sorry for not being the most clever know-it-all person who knows the most optimal ways to deal with every criminal rp related situation. You demand everyone to be a professional criminal who knows the best ways to get out without getting caught or sent to prison, is that what you're saying because that's how I understand this. Why don't you just prohibit custom criminal jobs and just add a specific criminal job which is only allowed: Professional criminal. Seems like there isn't room for any character development in such an oppressive athmosphere. This might seem like a joke to you, but I'm being as serious as I can be.

Also sorry but I'm not able to pay attention to every detail in every role play situation since I have been diagnosed with ADD about 12 years ago which is basically a concentration problem from other peoples' perspective. I can prove this, if needed.

[Soviethooves]

You could've just ran when he searched the building.

Also, you are ATM Burglars. Why are you placing an officer into a serious medical state when you should be robbing ATM's?

One more thing, your ADD is your personal problem. You are in control of your actions and must know when to play and when not to due to any personal disabilities or medical problems.

[mipastu]

INVOLVED

Yeah this is out of logic, if we would have had guns out in the situation, police officers would have just come and have a shootout with us, but if you try to take these situations quietly with a knife without need to take whole police force for one crime you get blacklisted

[Joulle]

You could've just ran when he searched the building.

Also, you are ATM Burglars. Why are you placing an officer into a serious medical state when you should be robbing ATM's?

One more thing, your ADD is your personal problem. You are in control of your actions and must know when to play and when not to due to any personal disabilities or medical problems.

Yes, we indeed were ATM burglars and we were planning our next target for the night. Yes, we were about to steal an ATM's funds during night time when there's less citizens outside to spot us. Unfortunately we got caught by these other police officers for something else and had they walked in the back room in the motel, they would've figured out where we're going to strike next as we had made a miniature map of sorts in the back room and marked the area where we'll strike next.

In short, our characters fucked up and police were on to us and in the heat of the moment I saw a way to at least get away from the situation since I assumed the worst: The police officer had seen from which motel room we ran out to the car so we knew where we came from and would've searched it first. This is because he was so close at the time we stabbed the other police officer.

I'm just trying to role play here, not to minge. I understand that you want to reduce the amount of bad aggressive role playing but I don't see this as bad aggressive role playing, maybe bad for our characters in some situations but I think our way would've worked in the situation. We would've gotten some distance between the police forces, yes they would've certainly been able to identify us but since we would've been gotten caught by police for planning some criminal operations in the city since we had that miniature map of the city in the back room and the shotgun guy ran there from the police he would've seen it had he dealt with the shotgun guy. The first police officer was stabbed to buy us additional time, then the other police officer came as we were trying to escape and he seemed to be onto us so we had to buy additional time. The baiting to the door was only to buy us additional time as knocking him unconscious would've given him more time to get the car on the road since it was blocked by so many other vehicles at the time.

We would've laid low somewhere hidden from the police had we gotten away. I still see this is better rp than what the majority does here, especially most police officers during EU afternoons when there isn't staff on. Actually not only better, but good role playing. We had motives, background rp and we only used violence when it seemed necessary.

[BlackDog]

Yes, we indeed were ATM burglars and we were planning our next target for the night. Yes, we were about to steal an ATM's funds during night time when there's less citizens outside to spot us.

Unfortunately we got caught by these other police officers for something else and had they walked in the back room in the motel, they would've figured out where we're going to strike next as we had made a miniature map of sorts in the back room and marked the area where we'll strike next.

(They we're searching for someone with a shotgun, which from what i recall, it was a woman who was called in having it, why would they ever stop their search to look at a map in someones house, spend minutes reading over it all and then deduce "These guys are going to steal an ATM" While in the middle of an armed suspect search? A search you could have easily diverted them away by just saying "I saw them go down the road")

In short, our characters fucked up and police were on to us and in the heat of the moment I saw a way to at least get away from the situation since I assumed the worst: The police officer had seen from which motel room we ran out to the car so we knew where we came from and would've searched it first. This is because he was so close at the time we stabbed the other police officer.

(Again i state, why was your first action to an officer going near your place to plan to murder them?)

I'm just trying to role play here, not to minge. I understand that you want to reduce the amount of bad aggressive role playing but I don't see this as bad aggressive role playing, maybe bad for our characters in some situations but I think our way would've worked in the situation.
(No, your method would not have worked, a police call is sent out to the motel, an officer is sent to investigate, said officers radio stops responding, even more officers will be sent to find out what happened, that is how it works, you murdering multiple police will do nothing but bring more police and cause more problems.

Your first murder was so surprising to the officer that they made an @ call about it, since you hadnt stabbed them in your back room with all your plans, you stabbed them in the living room, in the middle of the room, infront of the bed, meaning they had just walked in and you killed them by stabbing them in the back)

We would've gotten some distance between the police forces, yes they would've certainly been able to identify us but since we would've been gotten caught by police for planning some criminal operations in the city since we had that miniature map of the city in the back room and the shotgun guy ran there from the police he would've seen it had he dealt with the shotgun guy.

(If I have a map of my local town in my house, why would a police officer ever in the event of needing to enter my home assume "That map has pins marking locations, this must be for a crime and i must arrest this person immediately!")

The first police officer was stabbed to buy us additional time, then the other police officer came as we were trying to escape and he seemed to be onto us so we had to buy additional time. The baiting to the door was only to buy us additional time as knocking him unconscious would've given him more time to get the car on the road since it was blocked by so many other vehicles at the time.

(You could have lied, said they left down the road, did anything other than (MURDER), your video shows both of you lureing the officer to the door, and the moment he gets to it, BAM you stab them, no RP, no nothing.)

We would've laid low somewhere hidden from the police had we gotten away. I still see this is better rp than what the majority does here, especially most police officers during EU afternoons when there isn't staff on. Actually not only better, but good role playing. We had motives, background rp and we only used violence when it seemed necessary.

(No, no it was not, this was in the same catagory as some of the worst actions a player can take here, you did not RP the situation, you in no way made the correct logical choices you should have, having read our rules and knowing your limitations.

Your first reaction to seeing an officer was not "Lets divert them, or distract them" or help them locate the person with the gun since why would they suspect law abideing citizens giving them helpfull information? Instead your sole thought was "Lets kill them and run"

They we're not even there for you, they had a report of someone with a gun, and you had a city map, you we're in no danger, and had you thought you we're, i point to the examples i have listed in the above for future use and thought when you get into this kind of situation again.)



Any final thoughts before this is concluded?
@Joulle 

[BlackDog]

Unblacklist request denied due to player disinterest