[Taylor]

Name: Faust Busters

Time/Date: 17/10/2016 - 19:47 GMT

Steam ID:

Limelight - Link watcher

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STEAM_0:1:47537763

Name of Administrator: [L²] George

Evidence: While I do not have any clear evidence like videos or screenshots, I have collected a variety of statements and logs to which the provider(s) will remain un-named.

First before displaying any evidence I will give a small context of what happened, I pursued George, known as "Closeable Door" at the time for saying "I will kill you" to which after tazing and handcuffing him I was shot by Veliptor. After doing this I confronted George to which he said it was not against the rules and in no way spoke to Ciryl about it. NOTE: On request of a Supervising Administrator and/or Temar I will provide unedited proof via PM that includes staff members names i.e how I obtained the logs.

Proof of events:

v4b1[19:47:03]Faust Busters(STEAM_0:1:47537763)Knocked out: Closeable Door (STEAM_0:1:44756355) using Tazed

v4b1[19:47:20]Faust Busters(STEAM_0:1:47537763)said: /me starts to handcuff Antione Vallejo.

v4b1[19:47:21]Faust Busters(STEAM_0:1:47537763)used command: me starts to handcuff Antione Vallejo.

v4b1[19:47:22]Faust Busters(STEAM_0:1:47537763)said: /me clicks both cuffs over each hand therefore, finishing handcuffing Antione Vallejo.


v4b1[19:47:22]Veliptor(STEAM_0:1:51063459)injured: Faust Busters (STEAM_0:1:47537763) [cw_scar20] [] []

Proof that what Ciryl did was against the rules:








Proof of George's ignorance of RDM:

Spoiler

Note, I apologise for what I said to George in this discussions, as yes some of it was done right rude.

Note 2, I know the evidence is not enough to show complete context of what happened how as staff are required to tell the truth I do not see how this is too big of an issue.

[George]

Hi there, Faustin.

Sorry to hear that you felt I did not perform my duties as well as I should have. I'll make sure that I'll take everything you have said on board.

Now, with regards to your abuse thread, I'm failing to see how I have abused my powers (NOTE: Before I begin, I will state that yes, Veliptor is a friend that I have known for years - I will not try to lie about that).

I was, along with two other Corleone members, outside the front of the Nexus when we got into a heated argument with some Police officers. I then made the empty threat that I was going to kill one of them and realising the implications, made a run for the side street while being pursued by yourself. You tazed me before I could reach my intended destination and began to cuff me. After you finished cuffing me, I backed away and Veliptor, from afar, fired a single bullet incapacitating you so I could make my escape. I then fled down towards Izzie's Palace.

Should Veliptor have attempted a FearRP scenario? Possibly. Due to the place and timing of events it would have been incredibly difficult to pull it off without being spotted. I stand with Veliptor's decision to take the shot.

After this event occurred, you immediately called me out on Steam, instead of using an @ request. This will always get a different response from me as you haven't used the correct method to report a player. However, I accept your apology and apologise if I came across as "ignorant".

You then went on to use the correct method of reporting to which [L²:M] Rocket responded. I spoke to Rocket about the situation on Steam and we both voiced our opinion on the matter. Rocket then decided, with input from another administrator, to issue a blacklist. While I personally disagree with decision, I respected his decision and am not contesting it. I even offered to talk with Veliptor about the situation so we both know what we did that may be perceived as a rule break.

The problem is, I'm not sure what you're trying to accuse me of. Letting Veliptor break a rule, being bias? I personally believed Veliptor didn't break a rule as the rule quoted is not pertinent to this particular case. I was a not a "friend", I was a member of a crime family. You tried to arrest a family member, you get shot. That's how the family did their business. Perhaps instead of reporting me, or trying to get other administrators to contradict my opinion you make a thread suggesting a change to this rule, or perhaps ask an SA for a clarification?

To conclude, do I believe a rule was broken? No - Therefore I do not believe I let a rule break go unpunished.
Did I contest the punishment issued by another staff member? No - Therefore I do not believe I can be called bias. Should this rule be looked at? Yes. Should you refrain from calling a staff member out on Steam? Yes.

[Smex]

Removed.

[Taylor]

The problem is, I'm not sure what you're trying to accuse me of. Letting Veliptor break a rule, being bias? I personally believed Veliptor didn't break a rule as the rule quoted is not pertinent to this particular case. I was a not a "friend", I was a member of a crime family. You tried to arrest a family member, you get shot. That's how the family did their business. Perhaps instead of reporting me, or trying to get other administrators to contradict my opinion you make a thread suggesting a change to this rule, or perhaps ask an SA for a clarification?

I am accusing you of letting your friend get aware with one (possibly two) rule infringements. The first obvious being him shooting me. However I realized after posting this thread that, would someone really murder a police officer outside of the government headquarters, where an entire SWAT team and around 2 officers are standing for simply arresting an associate? The more realistic option would be to break them out of prison. Which is why I also believe you let him get away with FearRP.

[George]

The problem is, I'm not sure what you're trying to accuse me of. Letting Veliptor break a rule, being bias? I personally believed Veliptor didn't break a rule as the rule quoted is not pertinent to this particular case. I was a not a "friend", I was a member of a crime family. You tried to arrest a family member, you get shot. That's how the family did their business. Perhaps instead of reporting me, or trying to get other administrators to contradict my opinion you make a thread suggesting a change to this rule, or perhaps ask an SA for a clarification?

I am accusing you of letting your friend get aware with one (possibly two) rule infringements. The first obvious being him shooting me. However I realized after posting this thread that, would someone really murder a police officer outside of the government headquarters, where an entire SWAT team and around 2 officers are standing for simply arresting an associate? The more realistic option would be to break them out of prison.

This is a quote from Ciryl's (Veliptor) un-blacklist request:

Regarding the rules and if it's allowed to assist your friend if he's being arrested:

When it comes to Citizens, we've told people that they are not allowed to kill an Officer, even if their friend is being arrested.
We've also said the same to people with the job "Criminal" or something similar, and I believe that Blackdog has said that this would only be allowed if they were in the same gang, something I'd agree with. 

Seeing how both George and Ciryl were Corleones in the same gang (technically speaking, the same family who conduct organized crime), I'd say that they had a valid reason for taking out the Officer. If Corleone-members aren't allowed to save their own friends from the Police then I don't see who would be allowed to do this. This is something that happens in-game all the time and is a part of the risk of trying to arrest a member of organized crime. I think that petty criminals should not be allowed to save their friend or "associate" from an arrest, but members of organized crime, or a family should be able to intervene. Clan-members also do this and this is something I view as fair game as long as they have a good enough reason to intervene.  

In my opinion, a rule-breakage did not take place here. It sounds like Ciryl had a valid reason for assisting George by taking out the Officer, even though this situation could have been avoided if a threat was not made.

You've accused me of two things to which a Super Administrator has just said are invalid.

[Taylor]

@Enzyme @Brynn

Requesting Closure.

[Enzyme]

- Will be concluded within 24 to 48 hours -

[Enzyme]

Reviewed and concluded.

This case has been under some discussion, and here's the conclusion that Brynn and I have reached.

Regarding the rules and if it's allowed to assist your friend if he's being arrested:

When it comes to Citizens, we've told people that they are not allowed to kill another Officer, even if their friend is being arrested.
We've also said the same to people with the job "Criminal" or something similar (Although I'll need to mention that having your job as "Criminal" is not allowed as your job needs to be more descriptive).

Seeing how both George and Ciryl were Corleones in the same gang, I'd say that they had a valid reason for taking out the Officer. If Corleone-members aren't allowed to save their own friends from the Police then I don't see who would be allowed to do this.

In my opinion, a rule-breakage did not take place here. It sounds like Ciryl had a valid reason for assisting George by taking out the Officer, even though this situation could have been avoided if a threat was not made. 

As for abuse, I don't see how George abused his powers or rank in any way. If Ciryl would have broken a rule such as fearRP without intervening then that would put George at fault, but I don't see how a rule was broken and I therefore don't see how George was in the wrong

I suspect that this AA might be an overreaction to what occurred and that the reporter might be too personally involved as he was the officer who was shot. This AA has however shown that we the staff-team should discuss this rule and when it is acceptable to intervene to save your friend and when it's not. Hopefully, we'll reach an official standing on it within a reasonable time. 

No abuse noted.