(Aug 30, 2015, 12:23 AM)Noble link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Baskingner link=topic=1437.msg14104#msg14104 date=1440862302]
Ofcourse this will draw attention the whole "war" aspect. If you believe it isnt going to, then i think youre extremely naive.
The whole DMCA thing is childish in my eyes, honestly what are you hoping to achieve? In your best case scenario the content will be removed and then what? Youll sleep better at night?
For the sake of both communities just drop the subject.
Protecting the rights to our creations is 'childish'? If we allow Soul to claim legal ownership of our content that leaves possible ramifications in the future. Had he simply removed the content that the original two individuals had created and requested instead of claiming ownership to them this situation would never have escalated to this point. We've attempted an open dialogue to this 3 times already, this was not our first choice of action.
[/quote]
Yes its childish, someone claims the ownership of a baseball bat you created on a gameserver and youre honestly annoyed by it? This isnt about Soul, this is about a community. I am still gratefull that you volunterely made these files but demanding them back because you "dont want to be affiliated with FL" is simply childish. Its the same as i would donate, get pissed of at soul and demand my donation money back. In my point of view you "contributed" these files as a contributor of the community and received proper credit for it. I realise Soul hasnt handled this the best way but i am sure there is a middle way instead of throwing petty DMCA threats around.
Your demands were unreasonable and im assuming there is little to no legal ground you can enforce these demands on. If Soul and you guys are smart youre going to have a normal conversation again, talking about receiving credit for the updates you contributed and get this over with. Now, i have indeed no idea what was the history of this all is but i cant think of a situation where demanding removal of content is the best solution at all.
(Aug 30, 2015, 01:02 AM)Arizona link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Noble link=topic=1437.msg14073#msg14073 date=1440854062]
Seems everyone is a copyright lawyer now. Soul has claimed that all our content of FL is legally his (it isn't) and he's profited off the use of our work. That is why we are requesting the removal of our work. OVH's ToS explains it will also investigate copyright claims from third parties and holds the right to restrict or terminate a service (DMCAs are included under this clause).
In addition a large quantity of our content is hosted on the Steam Workshop by Soul. I'll give you one guess as to what country Valve is based in.
and ur a idiot
[/quote]
I suggest you refrain from insults.
(Aug 30, 2015, 01:56 AM)Baskingner link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Noble link=topic=1437.msg14222#msg14222 date=1440887021]
[quote author=Baskingner link=topic=1437.msg14104#msg14104 date=1440862302]
Ofcourse this will draw attention the whole "war" aspect. If you believe it isnt going to, then i think youre extremely naive.
The whole DMCA thing is childish in my eyes, honestly what are you hoping to achieve? In your best case scenario the content will be removed and then what? Youll sleep better at night?
For the sake of both communities just drop the subject.
Protecting the rights to our creations is 'childish'? If we allow Soul to claim legal ownership of our content that leaves possible ramifications in the future. Had he simply removed the content that the original two individuals had created and requested instead of claiming ownership to them this situation would never have escalated to this point. We've attempted an open dialogue to this 3 times already, this was not our first choice of action.
[/quote]
Yes its childish, someone claims the ownership of a baseball bat you created on a gameserver and youre honestly annoyed by it? This isnt about Soul, this is about a community. I am still gratefull that you volunterely made these files but demanding them back because you "dont want to be affiliated with FL" is simply childish. Its the same as i would donate, get pissed of at soul and demand my donation money back. In my point of view you "contributed" these files as a contributor of the community and received proper credit for it. I realise Soul hasnt handled this the best way but i am sure there is a middle way instead of throwing petty DMCA threats around.
Your demands were unreasonable and im assuming there is little to no legal ground you can enforce these demands on. If Soul and you guys are smart youre going to have a normal conversation again, talking about receiving credit for the updates you contributed and get this over with. Now, i have indeed no idea what was the history of this all is but i cant think of a situation where demanding removal of content is the best solution at all.
[/quote]
Legally we are fully in our right to request the content to be removed, as we are the content owners. The copyright laws in the countries in which the content was created ensure these rights; so yes we do have legal ground. You can feel free to read all the legal statutes that support this on the thread posted on FL.
We've attempted to settle this cooperatively 3 times already. These have been meet with either being ignored or claims that the content is owned by FL. We were not employed by Soul or FL for our work and we did not sign away our rights to the content, thus it is still our property. These are our remaining legal alternatives since Soul wishes to make this harder on everyone involved and we plan on taking full extent of these in order to reach a conclusion to this issue.
(Aug 30, 2015, 02:56 AM)Noble link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Baskingner link=topic=1437.msg14245#msg14245 date=1440892575]
[quote author=Noble link=topic=1437.msg14222#msg14222 date=1440887021]
[quote author=Baskingner link=topic=1437.msg14104#msg14104 date=1440862302]
Ofcourse this will draw attention the whole "war" aspect. If you believe it isnt going to, then i think youre extremely naive.
The whole DMCA thing is childish in my eyes, honestly what are you hoping to achieve? In your best case scenario the content will be removed and then what? Youll sleep better at night?
For the sake of both communities just drop the subject.
Protecting the rights to our creations is 'childish'? If we allow Soul to claim legal ownership of our content that leaves possible ramifications in the future. Had he simply removed the content that the original two individuals had created and requested instead of claiming ownership to them this situation would never have escalated to this point. We've attempted an open dialogue to this 3 times already, this was not our first choice of action.
[/quote]
Yes its childish, someone claims the ownership of a baseball bat you created on a gameserver and youre honestly annoyed by it? This isnt about Soul, this is about a community. I am still gratefull that you volunterely made these files but demanding them back because you "dont want to be affiliated with FL" is simply childish. Its the same as i would donate, get pissed of at soul and demand my donation money back. In my point of view you "contributed" these files as a contributor of the community and received proper credit for it. I realise Soul hasnt handled this the best way but i am sure there is a middle way instead of throwing petty DMCA threats around.
Your demands were unreasonable and im assuming there is little to no legal ground you can enforce these demands on. If Soul and you guys are smart youre going to have a normal conversation again, talking about receiving credit for the updates you contributed and get this over with. Now, i have indeed no idea what was the history of this all is but i cant think of a situation where demanding removal of content is the best solution at all.
[/quote]
Legally we are fully in our right to request the content to be removed, as we are the content owners. The copyright laws in the countries in which the content was created ensure these rights; so yes we do have legal ground. You can feel free to read all the legal statutes that support this on the thread posted on FL.
We've attempted to settle this cooperatively 3 times already. These have been meet with either being ignored or claims that the content is owned by FL. We were not employed by Soul or FL for our work and we did not sign away our rights to the content, thus it is still our property. These are our remaining legal alternatives since Soul wishes to make this harder on everyone involved and we plan on taking full extent of these in order to reach a conclusion to this issue.
[/quote]
And how are you planning to prove that it is your content? For example the /addlaw system is very hard to prove that youre the actual owner, and so are plenty of other of your guys creations.
You say you want a conclusion to this "issue" but why is it an issue in the first place? To me it looks like youre just trying to get back at Soul hence i find this childish.
You guys created amazing content at FL, dont let that rot on your PC simply because you had a dispute with Soul.
(Aug 30, 2015, 03:04 AM)Baskingner link Wrote: [ -> ]And how are you planning to prove that it is your content? For example the /addlaw system is very hard to prove that youre the actual owner, and so are plenty of other of your guys creations.
You say you want a conclusion to this "issue" but why is it an issue at the first place? To me it looks like youre just trying to get back at Soul hence i find this childish.
You guys created amazing content at FL, dont let that rot on your PC simply because you had a dispute with Soul.
All models and textures are easily able to be identified as our content. I watermarked all my textures and GRiiM/DarkN00b have progress images of all their works and their content is in folders with their names. This content is being hosted on the Steam Workshop by Soul and is accessed via there by the server. Valve, the owners of Steam, is located in the US and has to comply with DMCA protocol (they even have a form to fill out exclusively for workshop items).
As for the code the creators involved have progress saves and documents throughout the creation of their code to prove it is theirs.
This issue started initially with DarkN00b wanting some content removed, Soul rejected him and ignored further requests. After reading Section 2.1 of the FL ToS (which has been removed as of earlier today) it clearly defines creative content to be that of the creator. GRiiM decided he would like content removed and made the request, to which Soul denied him and claimed all of it to be his. That is when the rest of us decided to take part to have ours removed, not wanting it to become the property of Soul's. Myself, along with everyone else involved, never agreed to give up our content to Soul for his exploitation through 'server donations'. He's profiting off of our work with no creator ever seeing a dime. If someone was profiting off of your work without proper credit or compensation to you, I think you can see why we feel the need to do what we're doing.
In addition the content in question is being used here on LL with our permission, this becomes a legal issue if Soul claims ownership to that creative content.
I know you don't fully understand our motives for why we're doing what we're doing and I get that. Yesterday was the first time we decided to go fully public for something that we've been discussing for a few weeks now. We simply want to prevent the further exploitation and false claims to our content while we are still able to.
[move][glow=red,2,300]WHY CANT WE BE FRIENDS[/glow][/move]
I hope that eventually FL can be forgotten in this community, at least. It's a shame having to see this amount of bickering between the two communities.
Im moving this to discussions, any insults or flaming will result in a forum ban
(Aug 30, 2015, 04:55 AM)Sirrus link Wrote: [ -> ]I hope that eventually FL can be forgotten in this community, at least. It's a shame having to see this amount of bickering between the two communities.
As far as I'm concerned, FL is like an acid burn. The wound only heals after a great deal of time, but you still got a narly scar to remind you of it.
I will say it one more time.
"Soms do we just have to let things go"
Thanks
(Aug 30, 2015, 02:23 PM)Ping-Hotel link Wrote: [ -> ]I will say it one more time.
"Soms do we just have to let things go"
Thanks
That's true, although it's hard to just let things go when so many of us still cared about Fearless and invested a large amount of time helping SoulRipper with his community.
All I can say from the recent events is that it just goes to reinforce the reasons why the staff resigned and moved away and now players can understand those reasons clearly.
![[Image: Mean-Girls-GIF-I-Wish-I-Could-Bake-A-Cak...Smiles.gif]](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HVPTvYGpAgo/U2FxzVfx8HI/AAAAAAAAHeA/w6xcSYvnRtE/s1600/Mean-Girls-GIF-I-Wish-I-Could-Bake-A-Cake-Full-Of-Rainbows-and-Smiles.gif)
![[Image: damn-right.gif]](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VYKJVq6Gjtg/UMD0z-O6RLI/AAAAAAAADt8/aKwM45AX6PE/s1600/damn-right.gif)