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Reported Players: [L²:RP] Riggs (STEAM_0:1:116551935)  () Guv (STEAM_0:1:126816865)
Server: EU Live
Time: 2020-Jan-09 19:38
Summary: 

Rules Broken: 

3.3 - Do not do unrealistic things out of context (FailRP). Think of reasons for your actions and what you do and ask yourself if it’s realistic – e.g running around the city punching everyone as the President is FailRP. This also applies to unrealistic buildings out of context. (arresting an entire fire department for ridiculous reason which were a result of FailRP and ruining a RP in general) 

[font=Roboto, sans-serif,]3.4 - Powergaming is not allowed. E.g do not write “/me pulls out a gun and shoots his opponent right in the head” when it hasn’t actually happened in the game. Instead of “/me kicks the man in the groin” use “/me attempts to kick the man in the groin” and let the other player decide the outcome; alternatively you can use /roll to decide the outcome. Other examples of powergaming – changing jobs just to buy something from the market for yourself, abusing the /demote command to get rid of a police officer holding you at gunpoint. (abusing /warrant with a deceptive search reason to undermine our own RP and make a vehicle which wasn't working in RP  magically work despite props surrounding the truck and what the mechanic said)[/font]

[font=Roboto, sans-serif,][font=Roboto, sans-serif,]3.9 - Do not use information obtained by out-of-character means, in-character (Metagaming). Exception-you may use Teamspeak/Discord/similar as a radio, but only if it would make sense in-character (do not use it to bypass injury, FearRP, NLR, etc.). (using a game engine mechanic to undermine RP "The vehicle drives therefore its not broken down")[/font][/font]


So, we were RPing that the Fire Department was underfunded - We even hosted a meeting with the president.
In character the president said he'd look into the funding issue providing we would cooperate.

Initially we were going to move the Fire truck (which according to them was in the wrong bay). As we were RP'ing it had broken down. After the department didn't call for a tow truck, we had our truck which has a tow, and Darius was RP'ing as the departments mechanic. He was running through what was wrong with two of the three engines. Darius moved his truck *which has a tow hook*. Police officer gets frustrated for no reason. Concludes its obstruction and has us arrested.

Complaining we aren't working fast enough is one thing. But instead of actually roleplaying a broken down engine? and issuing a search warrant and using that as a basis to arrest us is just mingy.

Arresting the department and abusing the warrant system to dismiss our RP because its bothering you is another thing. It's comparable to me molotoving someones dupe just because I don't like it.  

WE had been using the fire department long before they arrived. We had been parking in that formation... long before they arrived. They decided to spawn that dupe down (Which has designated bays) Then complain about it, because our RP doesn't conform to what they want. Its powergaming. As is getting a warrant to dismiss our RP. Its also FailRP.  

Why would an officer involve themselves in a department issue that doesn't concern his department? I'm not sure why they were so provoked. Be it out or in character. Regardless. They also accused us of FearRP. But to be honest there wasn't any. There was failRP... Aiming a gun at the truck that is following your own disjointed orders. You wanted us to move the immobilised truck, so we were towing it. I can only assume that towing it wasn't fast enough, even then why would you aim a firearm at unarmed Firefighter...

Just a side note: we never saw a problem even after they placed a dupe since it said "Chiefs" And the Fire Chief was parked there....

There was some good quality RP going on. Until that display of rule breakage happened.


Evidence:





Logs will confirm a warrant along the lines of "Search for reason: Moving".

I was the fire chief, I didn't really get involved I just stood there silently in disbelief.

We were RP'ing as a fire department with a tight budget and mechanical issues as a result of the budget, just some simple passive RP. 

Before our meeting with the president Mr Paramedic got rather annoyed at our fire engine parking bay choices, kinda weird if you ask me, the police officer I believe was Riggs proceeded to complain in radio chat and cause a unnecessary issue, what does the police have to do with the FD? At this point the situation was still rather calm and required no police intervention. 

After coming out of the meeting we made our way to the fire station and the situation played out a little like this:

The paramedic wanted to park his truck in the bay but we had fire trucks occupying all 3 bays, not to mention it was broken down, this was in character and the engine was fully functional, but as you know, it was all part of the passive RP. We were prepared to move the engine as you can see in the video below, two cops which included Riggs and 1 other proceeded to involve them self directly, which I guess is reasonable as they acted to mediate the situation, however they just complicated the situation.


(https://youtu.be/2jBHOmNsLgc)

Sorry I didn't capture it all, I didn't know we were doing a PR until a few minutes later so shadowplay was a little behind.

1, "it was broken down" if so why was there no it emmiter or any /its made by ANY of you saying something along the lines of, "the engine wont start"  etc. you were told by the president to move the engines etc. "it said "Chiefs" And the Fire Chief was parked there..." the chief dosenot drive a fully fleged fire engine, they drive a crown vic or a taho for example.

2, https://gyazo.com/ead4a9ac4c4b770b79d4f59d9877c90d please fix that,

3, why am only i getting reported here? there was another officer there, also ‍  was there who started to report it to the police, for obstructing emergency services, guv was trying to RP as MC : FD EMS (or whatever state ems like "EC:FD") wich happens to be realistic as the EMS are apart of the FD in most states IRL.

4, "we own the FD" no you do not, the goverment own the FD.

5, We arrested you for failing to comply (the vid dose not show us asking you to move them) and you was blocking my way of moving the engine from the bay. also if it WAS the "chiefs" engine why did nobody tell us that?.

(Jan 10, 2020, 01:23 AM)Riggs Wrote: [ -> ]1, "it was broken down" if so why was there no it emmiter or any /its made by ANY of you saying something along the lines of, "the engine wont start"  etc. you were told by the president to move the engines etc. "it said "Chiefs" And the Fire Chief was parked there..." the chief dosenot drive a fully fleged fire engine, they drive a crown vic or a taho for example.

2, 

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https://gyazo.com/ead4a9ac4c4b770b79d4f59d9877c90d please fix that,

3, why am only i getting reported here? there was another officer there, also ‍  was there who started to report it to the police, for obstructing emergency services, guv was trying to RP as MC : FD EMS (or whatever state ems like "EC:FD") wich happens to be realistic as the EMS are apart of the FD in most states IRL.

4, "we own the FD" no you do not, the goverment own the FD.

5, We arrested you for failing to comply (the vid dose not show us asking you to move them) and you was blocking my way of moving the engine from the bay. also if it WAS the "chiefs" engine why did nobody tell us that?.

-Response is on behalf of Andromeda

1 - There was a pool of oil under the chiefs engine, or rather we called it transmission fluid, this is visible in the posts screenshot. We did say multiple times it was broken down and we were going to fix it in RP by hand ourselves. However you guys took the liberty of using an OOC feature to bend the RP to your will.
We did use props as well as smoke on the ladder truck too with an engine under it.

2 - Check now

3 - Mostly due to the lack of collective evidence, can't deny wrongdoing however without evidence there isn't much we can prove.

4 - We were mostly referring to the idea that the FD is completely separate to the PD, yes the police have authority but for the most part we were resolving the situation within the FD internally. 
Obstructing justice was a rather false statement in that you guys were merely peacekeepers and no crime was being committed, not to mention we were putting in the effort to actually move the fire engine. Where police are meant to manage and deescalate situations you did the complete opposite, something as simple as a parking mishap was spiralled into a mess that should never have been.

5 - The thing is we were complying, we moved the rescue truck in front of the engine to tow it, not to block it. It was broken down as part of the RP, we couldn't just drive it out.
As far as the engine being the chiefs engine, im sure we said it at one point but isn't that something you should have found out for yourself before needlessly jumping to conclusions?

edit: we had no actual knowledge of the correct arrangement in which the FD vehicles should have been parked. We saw chief, assumed that was me, saw ladder, wacked that in there and the third one was the rescue truck. Yes the first one was written as Chief/Ambo but "ambo" is rather unintelligible.

Its also doubly worth noting that the dupe was placed without our knowledge or consent, we were RPing in the fire station just fine before. We went out to a training event in corleone to return to some wacky dupe, we just assumed nothing of it and operated as normal.

" to return to some wacky dupe, we just assumed nothing of it and operated as normal. " you siad to us IC it was "graffiti"?, anyway at the time "[font=Roboto, sans-serif]There was a pool of oil under the chiefs engine" i wasnot able to see it UNTILL i moved the engine, as i didnot look behind the engine, on guvs screen it was a error so he wouldnot have been able to tell me it was there.[/font]

(Jan 10, 2020, 01:52 AM)Riggs Wrote: [ -> ]" to return to some wacky dupe, we just assumed nothing of it and operated as normal. " you siad to us IC it was "graffiti"?, anyway at the time "[font=Roboto, sans-serif]There was a pool of oil under the chiefs engine" i wasnot able to see it UNTILL i moved the engine, as i didnot look behind the engine, on guvs screen it was a error so he wouldnot have been able to tell me it was there.[/font]

In character we had no idea of what the dupe was, it could have been graffiti, we had no idea.
Whether or not there was a pool of oil does not negate the fact that we told you multiple times the engine had broken down, in emergency services you usually have the basic level of respect to take their word for it, why would a fire department lie about a broken down fire engine.

I also forgot to reply to the question about the vehicle choice for the Chief, we wanted to run 3 fire engines and are unaware of any rule saying the chief cant run a fire engine. We wanted all 3 different trucks for RP

Precisely. We had no clue as to what "Ambo" was referencing. A google search yielded nothing so we just went with the other half of the sign. "Chief". 

Moreover, if there was an Error Sign there... it probably suggests that there is a prop there... A prop that suggest the current state of the truck. Moreover our engineer even mentioned the fact that there was transmission fluid. 

There was a meeting, to which I mentioned that two of the engines were not working. The other didn't have a working pump. ( a meeting i'm pretty sure you were present in)  

You asked us to move the vehicle. I requested a Tow truck. You said no. So I had Darius bring round the truck that was working, you can even see that when you were handcuffing me, I was in the process of using the tow. 

You then arrested us for following your orders and justified it by exploiting a game mechanic.

"You then arrested us for following your orders" we didnot give you any oders to tow the engine you're self.

the prop was not a error for me only guv, also it was not visable when i got into the truck 


EDIT: "[font=Roboto, sans-serif]Ambo" commonly used for ambulance. also you never asked for a tow truck from us?[/font]

We did ask for a tow truck. I asked twice. 
I'm not going to deliberate what happened in character. 

I am however pointing out what you did, despite of what was said and was clear in character. We were RP'ing that the department was underfunded. 

We not only had props to support our Roleplay but we even told you, what was happening in character.  

You then used the fact that the vehicle was still usable as grounds to justify an arrest.... FailRP, Power gaming and Metagaming.

Edit. I'd also like to mentioned this: "also if it WAS the "chiefs" engine why did nobody tell us that?."
 - You clearly knew... You criticised the chief for using it, saying that the chief should have an SUV. So you knew it was the chiefs truck. We also told you that it was the chiefs truck when you asked us why we had a truck in that bay... Chiefs truck, Ladder truck and the spare bay went to the responding truck. Moreover, to even get a warrant you have to know whose vehicle it is... 

Aight since my names has been mentioned, guess its time for my side

ill go from the beginning

so i spawn my dupe in. no trucks at the station. so i radio in to find out where the chief's at. took a while since he didn't respond. when i eventually got through to him. the entire crew seemed to be out on a "feline tree incident" which doesn't seem very realistic as there was one of each truck on duty so, all of them to respond would be a waste of resources. which could of been better used.

When i eventually see the crew for the first time when i got on shift. there were all standing in nexus lobby. supposedly on "strike action" which again makes no sense. because its as if they would rather wait for the president and let people die in burning building rather than to go and pull them out.

so i took this matter to the presidents office. president at that time was ‍ She said with cooperation from the fire dept to complete there duties they would get the funding they needed. she also instructed them to allocate me parking in the station. which they failed to do. during this meeting one of the crew, [if i can remember] had some mic issues and required people to type so he could keep on track with the conversations. And the prompted the chief to say IC, He's deaf. Which makes no sense Whatsoever. as there are certain medical Criterias that need to be met in order to be accepted into a FD. 

upon me finding this out. i found an engine appliance in the Battalion Chief/Ambulance bay. which is fair enough. the problem here is is that that particular appliance was blocking the door that leads to the living area. so if people were coming from that area into the  bays. the door was blocked by the truck. i demonstrated this to the Fire chief at the time [Andro] and his response to me was "learn how to open a door properly" the only issue was the doors that lead to the bay open automatically in an outward direction from the player. so would block the way if someone was coming from the living area.

with regards to the breakdown all of the props in use were errors for me. and there was little to no use of /me or /it to demonstrate the rp

the chief did recommend that i transfer to mercy EMS, but making a job Transfer Just like that, after some time in that specific IC job division makes no IC sense in my opinon.

So after some time Theo went AFK so i contacted Basically Mental who was in command of the MSP [PD] at that time, as i had concluded between the blocked door in the station. the rude uncooperation of the chief [ who was insubordinating the orders of the pres at this point] and me being stuck out on the street with my Ambulance. it was getting to the point of obstructing emergency operations. so i called them in to help. and that half of the story im sure has been posted by Riggs

btw for the Record Ambo is an American Abbreviation of Ambulance

In Conclusion i think the standard of RP i seen from Andro and his crew Was Very Poor. And Below What i would expect of someone. with the amount of experience and hours. that they have. i say this. because it was the poor communication on radio and insubordinating the president. that casued this issue. which really could of been easily avoided

(Jan 10, 2020, 05:23 PM)Guv Wrote: [ -> ]Aight since my names has been mentioned, guess its time for my side

ill go from the beginning

so i spawn my dupe in. no trucks at the station. so i radio in to find out where the chief's at. took a while since he didn't respond. when i eventually got through to him. the entire crew seemed to be out on a "feline tree incident" which doesn't seem very realistic as there was one of each truck on duty so, all of them to respond would be a waste of resources. which could of been better used.

When i eventually see the crew for the first time when i got on shift. there were all standing in nexus lobby. supposedly on "strike action" which again makes no sense. because its as if they would rather wait for the president and let people die in burning building rather than to go and pull them out.

so i took this matter to the presidents office. president at that time was ‍ She said with cooperation from the fire dept to complete there duties they would get the funding they needed. she also instructed them to allocate me parking in the station. which they failed to do. during this meeting one of the crew, [if i can remember] had some mic issues and required people to type so he could keep on track with the conversations. And the prompted the chief to say IC, He's deaf. Which makes no sense Whatsoever. as there are certain medical Criterias that need to be met in order to be accepted into a FD. 

upon me finding this out. i found an engine appliance in the Battalion Chief/Ambulance bay. which is fair enough. the problem here is is that that particular appliance was blocking the door that leads to the living area. so if people were coming from that area into the  bays. the door was blocked by the truck. i demonstrated this to the Fire chief at the time [Andro] and his response to me was "learn how to open a door properly" the only issue was the doors that lead to the bay open automatically in an outward direction from the player. so would block the way if someone was coming from the living area.

with regards to the breakdown all of the props in use were errors for me. and there was little to no use of /me or /it to demonstrate the rp

the chief did recommend that i transfer to mercy EMS, but making a job Transfer Just like that, after some time in that specific IC job division makes no IC sense in my opinon.

So after some time Theo went AFK so i contacted ‍  who was in command of the MSP [PD] at that time, as i had concluded between the blocked door in the station. the rude uncooperation of the chief [ who was insubordinating the orders of the pres at this point] and me being stuck out on the street with my Ambulance. it was getting to the point of obstructing emergency operations. so i called them in to help. and that half of the story im sure has been posted by Riggs

btw for the Record Ambo is an American Abbreviation of Ambulance

In Conclusion i think the standard of RP i seen from Andro and his crew Was Very Poor. And Below What i would expect of someone. with the amount of experience and hours. that they have. i say this. because it was the poor communication on radio and insubordinating the president. that casued this issue. which really could of been easily avoided

The feline tree incident was part of a training op we had going on in corleone which required attendance of the full department, we did remain on call. We may have missed some radio calls but the traffic is so congested and incoherent a lot of times its hard to actually understand a radio transmission so they are easily missed.

We were waiting for the president in the nexus as we requested a meeting, the strike action was part of the underfunded RP we were doing. As far as my memory serves me there were no emergency calls at the time, if there were we would have responded for obvious reasons.

You are correct in saying an agreement was met with the president. As far as the deaf firefighter that was just a joke as he clearly wasn't deaf, I extended the joke a little bit in LOOC but it blew over fairly quickly, we understand it was a formal meeting or what have you but it was such a lighthearted and ridiculous joke we deemed it harmless. The gain on his mic was wacked up all the way which meant he had to type.

As far as the door issue, that sounds like a in character issue to me, we were working on the broken down truck so therefore we had tools and stuff lying about. We would have removed it after working on the engine. 

We didn't really have much of an opportunity to demonstrate /me or /it as you guys sort of barged your way in and started dictating the situation about after we explained it several times over. You didn't really give us a chance, just abused /warrant and assumed some form of authority. There also lies the fact that not using /me, /it or props that aren't errors does not negate the fact that we explained the situation several times over which was ignored.

We clearly had 3 trucks occupying the 3 bays, if you wanted somewhere to park your truck that wasn't in a bay or on the street you should have transferred as we were clearly at capacity. We had been RPing as firefighters for a while at that point and were using the station just fine before you turned up with your dupe. Large fire engines need regular maintenance and management of supplies, the parking bays are perfect for that, and like I said previously, all 3 engines served their own unique purpose which meant we would be able to adapt to many different RP situations, we didn't want to get rid of one for that reason.

The thing is we were attempting to repair and move the engine for you. Maybe we weren't as quick as you would like but we were getting there. No obstruction of emergency operations was taking place, I don't see how the location of your ambulance has any shred of relevancy towards your ability to respond to emergencies, we would have cleared the bay in a matter of minutes. Yes you were stuck out on the street but if you could count we had 3 engines in 3 bays, we had to move one, the one we were moving was immobilised and we were making efforts to repair and move it in RP, which was made very difficult by your and the police's interference.

Ambo is a term we are unfamiliar with. Again we saw chief and assumed that was that.

In conclusion I disagree with your points, we wanted to make some simple passive RP but you and the police decided to create a big issue out of nothing and abuse game mechanics to bend our innocent RP to your will. Who would have thought the bay which a fire engine is parked in would cause someone to get so annoyed. Irrational and unnecessary, we eventually got a bit fed up with it all as you guys were being quite the nuisances, which is where our attitudes might have gotten in the way, which we acknowledge and apologise for. Radio communication is most of the time useless spam and rubbish, most people don't know how to use a radio and communicate clearly, after some time you sort of tune out and don't listen to the specifics of radio calls. Again we will in the future work to listen more clearly, however I don't see how this relates to the post.

Moreover, the Feline incident was only part of the RP - We had brought a house at Corleone off of someone for extensive training. Which was accompanied by a tent that was put up (logs will back that up), for large scale training. We also closed off part of Corleone for this. The only reason we didn't extend the training RP further was because Dutch, (or so I believe) was involved in a shooting... He then escaped in a UPS  van, we called it in. irreverent yes, but its partly why we weren't able to respond to calls... We were in the area of a shootout...

Furthermore, WE DID respond to calls the second the shooter had been handled. There was a suicide incident in which we brought the ladder truck. However upon arrival that RP had concluded. We returned to station and made our way to the Nexus. 

Your disjointed understanding of what we were doing, as a result of not actually being present bares no relevance to this PR. And as Astro rightly said. You introduced some form of authority and took charge of the situation, leaving us little room to actually RP. You expect us to RP out a broken truck, and moving it in literal minutes after having the meeting? Please, give me a break. As a teacher, your role is actually to improve the RP, not rush or prematurely end it to suit your own RP.  

Me and Astro are not American. We've never heard of the term Ambo. And, regardless - as far as we were concerned the right vehicle was parked in the right bay. The chiefs vehicle. You're capable of asking what the error signs are. And given we had already, on multiple occasions stated what was present in that station (Transmission fluid) other than /me there isn't much more we can do. We said, in clear English. We are underfunded, our trucks are broken. We requested a tow. And again, none of this is relevant because its in character. The issue here lies in the rule breakage. Which is again, exploiting game mechanics and in turn power gaming.

Quote:3.1 - Your character needs to have a valid in-character reason for their actions, especially ones that harm or otherwise affect other players. The action needs to be appropriate to the reason

few points id like to make on this

Quote:We are underfunded, our trucks are broken.

So when i went on shift the department, Had 3 trucks that was able to drive to corleone, on that note: be able to fund a training session. and drive back. again all of a sudden, they break down. fair enough they broke down at a moments notice. more specifically you say "our trucks are broken". so i dont know which way rp is going here. Whether you mean, Generally in a bad condition due to lack of funds. or because they have broken down . so reasoning behind this might useful for us to know. as by rping for the trucks breaking down. is affecting players. by potentially leaving them in a deadly situation. as in Not getting to a person in house fire, or RTC etc.

Again, your disjointed understanding of what we were doing, as a result of not actually being present bares no relevance to this PR. We were driving our trucks at low speed... Because they were faulty. We did this to the training exercise and when returning from the training exercise. We did this with the cruise control command (Logs will confirm this). I believe it was either 20 or 30 MPH. Moreover, one of the vehilces actually did break down. (the big truck) Logs will confirm Darius buying a tool kit. 

You're ignorant of what happened because you didn't witness our RP and this also bares no relevance, nor does it detract from the fact that somebody used /warrant to determine whether a vehicle was faulty. 

Moreover, we would have responded to emergencies IN THE FUNCTIONING TRUCK THAT WE LITERALLY USED TO TRY AND TOW THE ENGINE YOU ASKED US TO MOVE