May 23, 2017, 09:17 PM
May 23, 2017, 09:29 PM
(May 23, 2017, 05:48 PM)Lord Octagon Wrote: [ -> ]'Jihad' is an important concept in Islam, although you must have been misinformed because it is not a violent concept. In Arabic, the word 'jihad' means struggle or striving.
That's the linguistic sense, now let's look at the religious sense. As described by the Quran and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, "jihad" has many meanings. It can refer to internal as well as external efforts to be a good Muslims or believer, as well as working to inform people about the faith of Islam.
If jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement. Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted.
Military action is therefore only one means of jihad, and is very rare. To highlight this point, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers returning from a military campaign: "This day we have returned from the minor jihad to the major jihad," which he said meant returning from armed battle to the peaceful battle for self-control and betterment.
In case military action appears necessary, not everyone can declare jihad. The religious military campaign has to be declared by a proper authority, advised by scholars, who say the religion and people are under threat and violence is imperative to defend them. The concept of "just war" is very important.
A misuse of jihad contradicts Islam.
Examples of sanctioned military jihad include the Muslims' defensive battles against the Crusaders in medieval times, and before that some responses by Muslims against Byzantine and Persian attacks during the period of the early Islamic conquests.
TL;DR
Jihad is not a violent concept
Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions. It is worth noting that the Koran specifically refers to Jews and Christians as "people of the book" who should be protected and respected. All three faiths worship the same God. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, and is used by Christian Arabs as well as Muslims.
Military action in the name of Islam has not been common in the history of Islam. Scholars says most calls for violent jihad are not sanctioned by Islam.
Warfare in the name of God is not unique to Islam. Other faiths throughout the world have waged wars with religious justifications
May 23, 2017, 09:32 PM
Now for evidence that Islamic Law forbids terrorism.
1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.
3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says, “But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,” 2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.”
4. In the Islamic law of war, not just any civil engineer can declare or launch a war. It is the prerogative of the duly constituted leader of the Muslim community that engages in the war. Nowadays that would be the president or prime minister of the state, as advised by the mufti or national jurisconsult.
5. The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)
6. Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34). Prominent Muslim legal scholar Sherman Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d. 464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking money, killing people or violating what God has made it unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . . .”
7. Sneak attacks are forbidden. Muslim commanders must give the enemy fair warning that war is imminent. The Prophet Muhammad at one point gave 4 months notice.
8. The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those who harm you and is said to have commanded, “Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
9. The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]
10. The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims. The Quran does not preach violence against Christians.
Quran 5:69 says (Arberry): “Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabeaans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness–their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.”
1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.
3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says, “But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,” 2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.”
4. In the Islamic law of war, not just any civil engineer can declare or launch a war. It is the prerogative of the duly constituted leader of the Muslim community that engages in the war. Nowadays that would be the president or prime minister of the state, as advised by the mufti or national jurisconsult.
5. The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)
6. Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34). Prominent Muslim legal scholar Sherman Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d. 464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking money, killing people or violating what God has made it unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . . .”
7. Sneak attacks are forbidden. Muslim commanders must give the enemy fair warning that war is imminent. The Prophet Muhammad at one point gave 4 months notice.
8. The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those who harm you and is said to have commanded, “Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
9. The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]
10. The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims. The Quran does not preach violence against Christians.
Quran 5:69 says (Arberry): “Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabeaans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness–their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.”
May 23, 2017, 09:47 PM
That's nice and all, but as we can see across most of the middle east they are not exactly following their own rules. I mean for fuck sake they shoot women for going to school and stone homosexuals
May 23, 2017, 09:51 PM
May 23, 2017, 10:00 PM
Off topic but kinda on topic: Has the Quran been re-written and altered as the Bible has?
On topic: No religion is the religion of peace.
Peace out.
On topic: No religion is the religion of peace.
Peace out.
May 23, 2017, 10:01 PM
Islam is a diverse religion. Aspects (Considerably large) have 'anti-west values', in which they generally support jihad attacks on the west. The number worldwide is estimated to be anywhere between 10million-300 million( Will try find source).
Equally the vast, vast majority of Muslims in the west oppose those values.
Simply saying it's a religion or peace, or an evil isn't wrong but it's not right..
The issue arises at lack of proper integration, in the UK at least, which makes them a huge target.
Equally the vast, vast majority of Muslims in the west oppose those values.
Simply saying it's a religion or peace, or an evil isn't wrong but it's not right..
The issue arises at lack of proper integration, in the UK at least, which makes them a huge target.
May 23, 2017, 10:04 PM
(May 23, 2017, 09:47 PM)SourLemon Wrote: [ -> ]That's nice and all, but as we can see across most of the middle east they are not exactly following their own rules. I mean for fuck sake they shoot women for going to school and stone homosexuals
List of Middle-Eastern countries:
Egypt
Iran
Turkey
Iraq
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Syria
United Arab Emirates
Israel
Jordan
Lebanon
Oman
Kuwait
Qatar
Armenia
Bahrain
--
All Middle-Eastern nations allow women/girls to go to school.
As for the comment about homosexuality, let's look at that in more detail:
Yemen: Married men can be sentenced to death by stoning for homosexual intercourse.
Iran: Homosexual intercourse between men can be punished by death
Qatar: Punishable by death, but only applies to Muslims
Saudi Arabia: A married man engaging in sodomy or any non-Muslim who commits sodomy with a Muslim can be stoned to death.
So only 4 out of the 16 Middle-Eastern countries prescribe the death penalty.
Therefore your statement is rather generalised and rather incorrect.
May 23, 2017, 10:14 PM
(May 23, 2017, 10:04 PM)Lord Octagon Wrote: [ -> ](May 23, 2017, 09:47 PM)SourLemon Wrote: [ -> ]That's nice and all, but as we can see across most of the middle east they are not exactly following their own rules. I mean for fuck sake they shoot women for going to school and stone homosexuals
List of Middle-Eastern countries:
Egypt
Iran
Turkey
Iraq
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Syria
United Arab Emirates
Israel
Jordan
Lebanon
Oman
Kuwait
Qatar
Armenia
Bahrain
--
All Middle-Eastern nations allow women/girls to go to school.
As for the comment about homosexuality, let's look at that in more detail:
Yemen: Married men can be sentenced to death by stoning for homosexual intercourse.
Iran: Homosexual intercourse between men can be punished by death
Qatar: Punishable by death, but only applies to Muslims
Saudi Arabia: A married man engaging in sodomy or any non-Muslim who commits sodomy with a Muslim can be stoned to death.
So only 4 out of the 16 Middle-Eastern countries prescribe the death penalty.
Therefore your statement is rather generalised and rather incorrect.
Oy vey, that is still a quarter of Middle-Eastern countries that have (what most people would consider) to be a cruel and inhuman punishment for something that goes against their religion. Even many people who are against homosexuality can still agree such a punishment shouldn't be given.
May 23, 2017, 10:17 PM
You say only 4 countries like that isn't a big deal, even then it is still illegal in the vast majority and people still go to prison for being homosexual.
May 23, 2017, 10:32 PM
(May 23, 2017, 10:17 PM)SourLemon Wrote: [ -> ]You say only 4 countries like that isn't a big deal, even then it is still illegal in the vast majority and people still go to prison for being homosexual.
That's not my point. I do not agree that Islamic law belongs in a criminal code. Look at Iran, for example, after the Islamic Revolution which toppled the 2500 year monarchy, mass-executions occurred and if you so much as breathed incorrectly, you would be charged with "crimes against God".
My point is that you incorrectly generalised an entire region. If you add up all variations of Chinese, you end up with roughly 1.2 billion native speakers in the world (roughly 16% of the world's population), the most common language. Does that mean that everyone speaks Chinese? No.
Just because 4 countries prescribe the death penalty does not mean all 16 do. And your comment about women being banned from schooling was completely false.
May 23, 2017, 10:36 PM
(May 23, 2017, 10:32 PM)Lord Octagon Wrote: [ -> ]. And your comment about women being banned from schooling was completely false.
I was more so referring to situations like this
Also
May 23, 2017, 10:44 PM
(May 23, 2017, 10:36 PM)SourLemon Wrote: [ -> ](May 23, 2017, 10:32 PM)Lord Octagon Wrote: [ -> ]. And your comment about women being banned from schooling was completely false.
I was more so referring to situations like thishttps://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24379018
Alsohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Is...st_attacks
Afghanistan isn't in the Middle-East, it's South-Central Asian. The list shows no attacks on schools in a Middle-Eastern country. Your point?
May 23, 2017, 11:23 PM
Not all muslims are terrorists, but the vast majority of terrorists are muslim.
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages...lence.aspx
https://youtu.be/g7TAAw3oQvg
May 23, 2017, 11:38 PM
(May 23, 2017, 09:29 PM)Lord Octagon Wrote: [ -> ](May 23, 2017, 05:48 PM)Lord Octagon Wrote: [ -> ] If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement. Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted.