Limelight Forums

(Aug 27, 2015, 03:40 PM)Nacreas link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13327#msg13327 date=1440682467]
[quote author=Nacreas link=topic=1422.msg13323#msg13323 date=1440682048]
[quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13319#msg13319 date=1440681843]
[quote author=General Rickets link=topic=1422.msg13318#msg13318 date=1440681697]
*You're complaining because you were warned about breaking the rules?!

*Kix was warned, not me.

I am sticking up for one of my friends such as Nacreas did for Narc.
I am complaining about the amount of Bias from Nacreas towards Narc and the valid situation in hand.
[/quote]

1.I have provided Faustie with evidence that had I carried out the only check I can to see if he was using a third-party software in-game.
2.You admitted to prop pushing Narc and were warned for doing so.

Both sides of the story had been investigated on my part and the confrontation was, in my opinion, conducted in a professional manner according to procedure.
[/quote]

Can I please just note that this in 'Your opinion'. Although Faustie has replied, the full side of the story clearly hasn't been seen.
(Can you please stop saying 'You'. As I said, it is about Kix here, NOT me).
If this were to be done in a professional manner, then this would mean that the evidence would have been reviewed not just by one Admin, as stated to me by an Admin before, many admins look over certain situations to find a good reasoning for a punishment. This is one of the situations that should have been looked over by many admins.
Sorry to disappoint, but one command doesn't always work to find if someone is using a third-party software to find if someone is using the software to therefore break the rules.
Sometimes, players have no choice but to take things into their own hands (Although stated against in the rules). If an Admin is to be Bias about a situation, we need to deal with it, and that is what had to happen here.
[/quote]

All players are considered innocent until proven guilty. I, the investigating administrator, used the resources provided to see whether or not Narc had this supposed software to which he did not. Kix had been warned for his violation of the rules and the investigation was conducted professionally on my part.

I do what is required of me according to procedure which has been done in this particular instance.
[/quote]

Doing this does not mean to be Bias towards a player that you can see has broken a rule. This is BIAS, not done professionally.
If done professionally, you would have gotten other opinions on the situation to show whether or not a blacklist/ban should be put in place for either player.
The evidence should have been looked over to decide on whether any other Admin thought there was rule breakage here.

(Aug 27, 2015, 03:44 PM)BasicallyMental link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Narc link=topic=1422.msg13330#msg13330 date=1440682700]
I simply fail to note the "bias" that you're pinning on Nacreas.

As you broke the rules, I simply reported this using the administrative notification/report system (@) - note that prior to this I had not checked whether or not an administrator was even present on the server, as Nacreas then arrived and deal with the case accordingly and in accordance with the regulations and protocols set by him, the case was closed. As the case was closed, I had things completely unrelated to this very case to discuss and clear with Nacreas, the context being personal and also clan related things, those do not concern you and I fail to see a connection.

I'll note again. Kix, not me. Did you read that bit?

The reason for us not using the @ system is that we know about you two being good friends. Therefore there would be Bias in the situation so we were taking things into our own hands as I have stated in a previous reply.
[/quote]

You're engaging in the discussion on the same side, with the exact same points, it doesn't really matter to whom I'm addressing my points. Nacreas has been a staff member cross-communities for about 8 months I believe, and he has been found just in his judgments and in doing his job, so why would one case of personal involvement outside of the server and his job (his job specifically instructs him to disregard those, and so he did) sway your opinion? I have never nor would I blame an administrator for doing his job, even if directed upon me in a manner not in my favor, he simply did what his duty entails and found no rules broken.

I'm friends with many people in LimeLight so don't attempt to pull cards you can't backup with evidence.

A copy of the Steam Chat between Narc and myself:
note that the final line has been removed for security reasons and is not relevant to this case



In correlation to TeamSpeak logs:


note that the first time I joined the channel, Narc didn't respond assuming his audio was off at the time because he was present in-game. The line that shows me joining his channel is the line at the bottom.

Note that Narc asked me if I was on TeamSpeak before I had even joined his channel.

Timeline:

Responding to Narc's call: v2d [13:58:24] [L²] Nacreas (STEAM_0:0:57118162) said: !goto 416
Joining his TeamSpeak channel: 8:03 PM (GMT +8:00)

This only goes to show that I wasn't even speaking to Narc whilst investigating the case and I had joined his channel after I had concluded the case at hand.

(Aug 27, 2015, 03:50 PM)Narc link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13334#msg13334 date=1440683064]
[quote author=Narc link=topic=1422.msg13330#msg13330 date=1440682700]
I simply fail to note the "bias" that you're pinning on Nacreas.

As you broke the rules, I simply reported this using the administrative notification/report system (@) - note that prior to this I had not checked whether or not an administrator was even present on the server, as Nacreas then arrived and deal with the case accordingly and in accordance with the regulations and protocols set by him, the case was closed. As the case was closed, I had things completely unrelated to this very case to discuss and clear with Nacreas, the context being personal and also clan related things, those do not concern you and I fail to see a connection.

I'll note again. Kix, not me. Did you read that bit?

The reason for us not using the @ system is that we know about you two being good friends. Therefore there would be Bias in the situation so we were taking things into our own hands as I have stated in a previous reply.
[/quote]

You're engaging in the discussion on the same side, with the exact same points, it doesn't really matter to whom I'm addressing my points. Nacreas has been a staff member cross-communities for about 8 months I believe, and he has been found just in his judgments and in doing his job, so why would one case of personal involvement outside of the server and his job (his job specifically instructs him to disregard those, and so he did) sway your opinion? I have never nor would I blame an administrator for doing his job, even if directed upon me in a manner not in my favor, he simply did what his duty entails and found no rules broken.
[/quote]

I am not complaining about him doing his job but the actions made. The main reason (In my opinion) no one has yet said anything about his actions of which some would call 'Corrupt', is because they are scared about getting in trouble for bringing it up.
I am not saying I am not scared or trying to show anything, I am just putting across what I thought was done wrong in the situation. Defending my friend.

(Aug 27, 2015, 03:58 PM)Nacreas link Wrote: [ -> ]I'm friends with many people in LimeLight so don't attempt to pull cards you can't backup with evidence.

A copy of the Steam Chat between Narc and myself:
note that the final line has been removed for security reasons and is not relevant to this case



In correlation to TeamSpeak logs:


note that the first time I joined the channel, Narc didn't respond assuming his audio was off at the time because he was present in-game. The line that shows me joining his channel is the line at the bottom.

Note that Narc asked me if I was on TeamSpeak before I had even joined his channel.

Timeline:

Responding to Narc's call: v2d [13:58:24] [L²] Nacreas (STEAM_0:0:57118162) said: !goto 416
Joining his TeamSpeak channel: 8:03 PM (GMT +8:00)

This only goes to show that I wasn't even speaking to Narc whilst investigating the case and I had joined his channel after I had concluded the case at hand.

I am lost with you now.

In my last reply I state about you being Bias and not doing your job as what is called 'Professionally'.
I am not sure where you have picked this up from, but it is not what we were talking about.

Also, with the TS3, I was talking about being suspicious. It was off topic, and not to do with the complain itself.

(Aug 27, 2015, 03:59 PM)BasicallyMental link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Narc link=topic=1422.msg13339#msg13339 date=1440683412]
[quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13334#msg13334 date=1440683064]
[quote author=Narc link=topic=1422.msg13330#msg13330 date=1440682700]
I simply fail to note the "bias" that you're pinning on Nacreas.

As you broke the rules, I simply reported this using the administrative notification/report system (@) - note that prior to this I had not checked whether or not an administrator was even present on the server, as Nacreas then arrived and deal with the case accordingly and in accordance with the regulations and protocols set by him, the case was closed. As the case was closed, I had things completely unrelated to this very case to discuss and clear with Nacreas, the context being personal and also clan related things, those do not concern you and I fail to see a connection.

I'll note again. Kix, not me. Did you read that bit?

The reason for us not using the @ system is that we know about you two being good friends. Therefore there would be Bias in the situation so we were taking things into our own hands as I have stated in a previous reply.
[/quote]

You're engaging in the discussion on the same side, with the exact same points, it doesn't really matter to whom I'm addressing my points. Nacreas has been a staff member cross-communities for about 8 months I believe, and he has been found just in his judgments and in doing his job, so why would one case of personal involvement outside of the server and his job (his job specifically instructs him to disregard those, and so he did) sway your opinion? I have never nor would I blame an administrator for doing his job, even if directed upon me in a manner not in my favor, he simply did what his duty entails and found no rules broken.
[/quote]

I am not complaining about him doing his job but the actions made. The main reason (In my opinion) no one has yet said anything about his actions of which some would call 'Corrupt', is because they are scared about getting in trouble for bringing it up.
I am not saying I am not scared or trying to show anything, I am just putting across what I thought was done wrong in the situation. Defending my friend.
[/quote]

I'm going to explain what I did for the third time.

1.Narcotic sends an @ call requesting assistance
2.Nacreas responds to his request
3.Nacreas unphases
4.Nacreas says hello
5.Nacreas moves both Kix and Narc away from the trees as the /me's were disruptive to his investigation
6.Narc grabs his microphone and then denies the accusations made by Kix
7.Kix admitted to prop pushing Narcotic to see whether or not he was using a clickbot which is backseat administration
8.Nacreas says that there isn't much he can do to prove Kix's bold argument and warns Kix for his misconduct
9.Nacreas concludes the confrontation
10.Nacreas runs an admin-only command to see whether or not Narc had third-party software and whether or not he lied to me during the case.

Corrupt? I think not.

(Aug 27, 2015, 04:09 PM)Nacreas link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13342#msg13342 date=1440683949]
[quote author=Narc link=topic=1422.msg13339#msg13339 date=1440683412]
[quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13334#msg13334 date=1440683064]
[quote author=Narc link=topic=1422.msg13330#msg13330 date=1440682700]
I simply fail to note the "bias" that you're pinning on Nacreas.

As you broke the rules, I simply reported this using the administrative notification/report system (@) - note that prior to this I had not checked whether or not an administrator was even present on the server, as Nacreas then arrived and deal with the case accordingly and in accordance with the regulations and protocols set by him, the case was closed. As the case was closed, I had things completely unrelated to this very case to discuss and clear with Nacreas, the context being personal and also clan related things, those do not concern you and I fail to see a connection.

I'll note again. Kix, not me. Did you read that bit?

The reason for us not using the @ system is that we know about you two being good friends. Therefore there would be Bias in the situation so we were taking things into our own hands as I have stated in a previous reply.
[/quote]

You're engaging in the discussion on the same side, with the exact same points, it doesn't really matter to whom I'm addressing my points. Nacreas has been a staff member cross-communities for about 8 months I believe, and he has been found just in his judgments and in doing his job, so why would one case of personal involvement outside of the server and his job (his job specifically instructs him to disregard those, and so he did) sway your opinion? I have never nor would I blame an administrator for doing his job, even if directed upon me in a manner not in my favor, he simply did what his duty entails and found no rules broken.
[/quote]

I am not complaining about him doing his job but the actions made. The main reason (In my opinion) no one has yet said anything about his actions of which some would call 'Corrupt', is because they are scared about getting in trouble for bringing it up.
I am not saying I am not scared or trying to show anything, I am just putting across what I thought was done wrong in the situation. Defending my friend.
[/quote]

I'm going to explain what I did for the third time.

1.Narcotic sends an @ call requesting assistance
2.Nacreas responds to his request
3.Nacreas unphases
4.Nacreas says hello
5.Nacreas moves both Kix and Narc away from the trees as the /me's were disruptive to his investigation
6.Narc grabs his microphone and then denies the accusations made by Kix
7.Kix admitted to prop pushing Narcotic to see whether or not he was using a clickbot which is backseat administration
8.Nacreas says that there isn't much he can do to prove Kix's bold argument and warned Kix for his misconduct
9.Nacreas concludes the confrontation
10.Nacreas runs an admin-only command to see whether or not Narc had third-party software and whether or not he lied to me during the case.

Corrupt? I think not.
[/quote]

I don't think you were reading my replies on you being 'Professional'. As you and Narc are friends, there is to be some Bias involved. Therefore, it would have been better for you to get multiple opinions.
Also, when saying 'Corrupt',
A. I am definately not the only one to be thinking this.
B. I am mean 'Corrupt' in general. Over things that have happened recently and further back in time.

(Aug 27, 2015, 04:14 PM)BasicallyMental link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Nacreas link=topic=1422.msg13345#msg13345 date=1440684577]
[quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13342#msg13342 date=1440683949]
[quote author=Narc link=topic=1422.msg13339#msg13339 date=1440683412]
[quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13334#msg13334 date=1440683064]
[quote author=Narc link=topic=1422.msg13330#msg13330 date=1440682700]
I simply fail to note the "bias" that you're pinning on Nacreas.

As you broke the rules, I simply reported this using the administrative notification/report system (@) - note that prior to this I had not checked whether or not an administrator was even present on the server, as Nacreas then arrived and deal with the case accordingly and in accordance with the regulations and protocols set by him, the case was closed. As the case was closed, I had things completely unrelated to this very case to discuss and clear with Nacreas, the context being personal and also clan related things, those do not concern you and I fail to see a connection.

I'll note again. Kix, not me. Did you read that bit?

The reason for us not using the @ system is that we know about you two being good friends. Therefore there would be Bias in the situation so we were taking things into our own hands as I have stated in a previous reply.
[/quote]

You're engaging in the discussion on the same side, with the exact same points, it doesn't really matter to whom I'm addressing my points. Nacreas has been a staff member cross-communities for about 8 months I believe, and he has been found just in his judgments and in doing his job, so why would one case of personal involvement outside of the server and his job (his job specifically instructs him to disregard those, and so he did) sway your opinion? I have never nor would I blame an administrator for doing his job, even if directed upon me in a manner not in my favor, he simply did what his duty entails and found no rules broken.
[/quote]

I am not complaining about him doing his job but the actions made. The main reason (In my opinion) no one has yet said anything about his actions of which some would call 'Corrupt', is because they are scared about getting in trouble for bringing it up.
I am not saying I am not scared or trying to show anything, I am just putting across what I thought was done wrong in the situation. Defending my friend.
[/quote]

I'm going to explain what I did for the third time.

1.Narcotic sends an @ call requesting assistance
2.Nacreas responds to his request
3.Nacreas unphases
4.Nacreas says hello
5.Nacreas moves both Kix and Narc away from the trees as the /me's were disruptive to his investigation
6.Narc grabs his microphone and then denies the accusations made by Kix
7.Kix admitted to prop pushing Narcotic to see whether or not he was using a clickbot which is backseat administration
8.Nacreas says that there isn't much he can do to prove Kix's bold argument and warned Kix for his misconduct
9.Nacreas concludes the confrontation
10.Nacreas runs an admin-only command to see whether or not Narc had third-party software and whether or not he lied to me during the case.

Corrupt? I think not.
[/quote]

I don't think you were reading my replies on you being 'Professional'. As you and Narc are friends, there is to be some Bias involved. Therefore, it would have been better for you to get multiple opinions.
Also, when saying 'Corrupt',
A. I am definately not the only one to be thinking this.
B. I am mean 'Corrupt' in general. Over things that have happened recently and further back in time.
[/quote]

This topic relates to a particular instance with kix to which I've answered and addressed his concerns. If you can provide evidence of when I have been "corrupt" feel free to make a separate thread. 

(Aug 27, 2015, 04:19 PM)Nacreas link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13346#msg13346 date=1440684861]
[quote author=Nacreas link=topic=1422.msg13345#msg13345 date=1440684577]
[quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13342#msg13342 date=1440683949]
[quote author=Narc link=topic=1422.msg13339#msg13339 date=1440683412]
[quote author=BasicallyMental link=topic=1422.msg13334#msg13334 date=1440683064]
[quote author=Narc link=topic=1422.msg13330#msg13330 date=1440682700]
I simply fail to note the "bias" that you're pinning on Nacreas.

As you broke the rules, I simply reported this using the administrative notification/report system (@) - note that prior to this I had not checked whether or not an administrator was even present on the server, as Nacreas then arrived and deal with the case accordingly and in accordance with the regulations and protocols set by him, the case was closed. As the case was closed, I had things completely unrelated to this very case to discuss and clear with Nacreas, the context being personal and also clan related things, those do not concern you and I fail to see a connection.

I'll note again. Kix, not me. Did you read that bit?

The reason for us not using the @ system is that we know about you two being good friends. Therefore there would be Bias in the situation so we were taking things into our own hands as I have stated in a previous reply.
[/quote]

You're engaging in the discussion on the same side, with the exact same points, it doesn't really matter to whom I'm addressing my points. Nacreas has been a staff member cross-communities for about 8 months I believe, and he has been found just in his judgments and in doing his job, so why would one case of personal involvement outside of the server and his job (his job specifically instructs him to disregard those, and so he did) sway your opinion? I have never nor would I blame an administrator for doing his job, even if directed upon me in a manner not in my favor, he simply did what his duty entails and found no rules broken.
[/quote]

I am not complaining about him doing his job but the actions made. The main reason (In my opinion) no one has yet said anything about his actions of which some would call 'Corrupt', is because they are scared about getting in trouble for bringing it up.
I am not saying I am not scared or trying to show anything, I am just putting across what I thought was done wrong in the situation. Defending my friend.
[/quote]

I'm going to explain what I did for the third time.

1.Narcotic sends an @ call requesting assistance
2.Nacreas responds to his request
3.Nacreas unphases
4.Nacreas says hello
5.Nacreas moves both Kix and Narc away from the trees as the /me's were disruptive to his investigation
6.Narc grabs his microphone and then denies the accusations made by Kix
7.Kix admitted to prop pushing Narcotic to see whether or not he was using a clickbot which is backseat administration
8.Nacreas says that there isn't much he can do to prove Kix's bold argument and warned Kix for his misconduct
9.Nacreas concludes the confrontation
10.Nacreas runs an admin-only command to see whether or not Narc had third-party software and whether or not he lied to me during the case.

Corrupt? I think not.
[/quote]

I don't think you were reading my replies on you being 'Professional'. As you and Narc are friends, there is to be some Bias involved. Therefore, it would have been better for you to get multiple opinions.
Also, when saying 'Corrupt',
A. I am definately not the only one to be thinking this.
B. I am mean 'Corrupt' in general. Over things that have happened recently and further back in time.
[/quote]

This topic relates to a particular instance with kix to which I've answered and addressed his concerns. If you can provide evidence of when I have been "corrupt" feel free to make a separate thread.
[/quote]

The 'Corrupt' thing is just in general as I said. I do not have evidence, and will not plan on collecting any, it is more for other players to be aware of for if they wish to collect evidence over time.

If you have address this with Kix already else-ware like steam or forum PM, I have nothing to argue for him.

After looking at the situation again, I've noticed that Kix never provided me with the evidence during the confrontation. Bare in mind that the evidence that has been provided is strong enough to suspect him of using third-party software but is not enough to prove he actually is using a third-party software.

What the evidence does show, however, Kix using his "PTE" access for moderation purposes which is most certainly against our rules.

Simply because a player is friends with an admin does not inherently mean that there is any bias. This is simply a claim on your part with no hard evidence to back it up. Admins are not required to get a second opinion every time they take an action against someone they are acquainted with - if bias is proven, then action will be taken. However, you have not proven bias.

Prop-pushing another player is against the rules. You were warned for doing this, as you abused your physgun access. Furthermore, it is not your job to decide whether or not other players are using third-party software, therefore the warning was valid.

Nacreas did indeed show me the evidence that Narcotic was not using any third-party tools. There is no evidence to prove that he was, and even if he was, it is not your job to prove it, and you would still be punished for prop-pushing him.

The logs also prove that Nacreas responded to the @ call, and that there were many /mes, which explains the move.

Admins are not forbidden from being in a TS channel with players.


I think I've covered it all here: there is no evidence whatsoever to prove that Nacreas was being biased, or that Narcotic was using third-party software. Everything is highly circumstantial on your part and is the result of suspicions, which led you to break the rules. The only issue I see here is your rule-breakage, for which you were already warned.

Closed and concluded.

No abuse is proven to take place from the administrator in question.


Case notes:
The evidence provided in this case was not provided to the accused administrator at the time of the confrontation; and he therefore had to investigate the accusation on his own and what he found did not prove that a clickbot was being used.

Just because a staff-member is a friend with an accused player does not make the  staff-member automatically biased. I've personally responded to @ calls where people I could call my friends are accused of breaking the rules and I believe that I've dealt with these cases like any other. Just because a staff-member and a player are friends does not mean that the staff-member is automatically giving special treatment of any kind.

The evidence provided in this case does not prove that any abuse has taken place.
The evidence provided does however prove that the reporting player has broken two rules:

- Prop-pushing
- Backseat Administration

Consider this a warning, and if you were to be found doing this again then you will be punished accordingly.


- Enzyme.
Supervising Administrator (HR Staff)

(You didn't lock the thread Enzyme bb)

Before I lock this topic I would just like to add, I was on earlier playing in windowed mode and watching tv. Clicking while I watched tv. I had been moved away from the tree as well and was still clicking, I was not using a clicker bot, I was just focused on the show and like this case turned off my volume due to music spam. This is no indication that a clicking bot was used. The evidence is merely subjective.

Thread closed