(Aug 22, 2015, 03:23 PM)Lord Octagon link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Jono link=topic=1272.msg11844#msg11844 date=1440202369] The economy suffered on fearless, mainly as a result of this, and it has already suffered on limelight with the sale of donator status. (Which on the sellers perspective, acts exactly the same as a moneypack.)
That's not how it works. Let's use a hypothetical:
>Over the portion of the week I accumulate enough money to buy one donator status with in game money.
>I purchase the status, thus
transferring[b] the money from [b]my wallet to the seller's
It is not the same as a money pack:
>I purchase a moneypack via the website
>Poof money appears out of nowhere
There is a big difference, in one scenario the player transfers his money and in the other he just magics it up.
[/quote]
That's not what I said, it it?
I was saying FROM THE SELLERS PERSPECTIVE, they're getting In-character money, for doing absolutly nothing. Yes, it's not directly inflating the economy in terms of injective liquid money, but it's inflating the buying power of the individual as they can buy money whenever they want to.
All in character money should be earned in character, was what I was going for. Selling donator status, (Other than the fact it injects and extra 50k in the economy, which is often utilized to buy said donator anyway), ruins the value of items. As I mentioned in the OP, I don't mean value in terms of monetary value, but on how rare they are, and the time invested into getting it.
An example of this would be people's Lambos that are currently whizzing around on the server. I look at them, not in awe at all. I know that 75% of their cost, (for most people), has been funded via real life cash.
(Aug 22, 2015, 03:23 PM)Lord Octagon link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Jono link=topic=1272.msg11844#msg11844 date=1440202369] The economy suffered on fearless, mainly as a result of this, and it has already suffered on limelight with the sale of donator status. (Which on the sellers perspective, acts exactly the same as a moneypack.)
That's not how it works. Let's use a hypothetical:
>Over the portion of the week I accumulate enough money to buy one donator status with in game money.
>I purchase the status, thus
transferring[b] the money from [b]my wallet to the seller's
It is not the same as a money pack:
>I purchase a moneypack via the website
>Poof money appears out of nowhere
There is a big difference, in one scenario the player transfers his money and in the other he just magics it up.
[/quote]
No its the same. By selling donator you "magically create" a product worth of around 300K, it doesnt matter where the money came from but things like that make sure a proper economy is too hard too do.
(Aug 22, 2015, 08:44 AM)evilmat360 link Wrote: [ -> ][quote author=Faustie link=topic=1272.msg11852#msg11852 date=1440204524]
I think that a reward for reviving players and putting out fires would be a small but significant start.
As far as I'm aware contraband earns a player $1250 every 5 minutes. If we put a timer on paramedic bonuses of around 2 minutes to stop abuse, and make the payout $400, then every 5 minutes you can earn $800 ($900 on average). Add the paramedic's salary and this is almost as good as basic afk contraband, though not nearly as effective as cooking meth. The same would apply for firemen. We should also boost salaries around the board - the problem with the economy on FL was never low amounts of money, but the fact that over the years millions and millions had accumulated. I'm not even sure if money-packs were the problem; there were simply never any good money-sinks and we only started to add them at the very end.
The problem with this is that it's then reliant on there being a large number of car crashes and injuries being reported. Sometimes you can easily sit around for 10-20 minutes with nothing to deal with. This would be where contraband still has an advantage over doing a lower paying government job.
[/quote]
Personally I'm ok with that. This is something that I do also, and that downtime I spend socializing, doing casual RP and sometimes go on business inspections. I like having that ability to branch out and RP a bit.
Now having said that, if there hasn't been a fire in awhile it may be possible to add in one of the suggestions out there to have a random fire occur to help keep the bonuses going. Injuries are much more frequent, there are many many hit and runs, shots, punching, etc. that goes on. I see a solo medic constantly gone from the station.
I'd like to see fireman/medics getting paid for their tasks, would work great with the "fire spreading system, if added."
Farming would be nice if added in.
Edit: I like Jonos idea of supercars costing 4-8m, I see lambos/bentleys racing up and down the straight more than the starter cars.
(Aug 22, 2015, 02:16 PM)Wood link Wrote: [ -> ]I've had a lot of complaints about the alu being 20k or so. The reason it flys so high is so people don't do meth all the time. If we allowed it to always be between 1-10k then everyone would literally be making millions as there would never be a bad time to make meth.
The way it works at the moment, means you can't always do meth as it's far too costly, and means it can't be farmed 24-7. I'm happy to take a vote, but if we lower the recipe for alu to about 1-15k then I will be dropping around 10-15k of the payout of meth as otherwise people are just going to farm meth every single day.
True.
A Lambo should cost - 2.5-3 Million and the Bentley should cost - 1.5-1 Million
I see them a lot and that is due to people contra whoring, doing meth and donating for others.
absolute shit would be 10x better if you gave me all the money
I do think we need payouts for fires being out out etc, and I think we should make the meth production easier, but with it being easier you get a lower payout, and If you chose to do it the hard way, you get a higher payout. But I think we should add in like £2.50 for 50k. I dunno I'm just ranting about thinks that probs won't happen
Higher Job Payout
It should be less. We have way to much reliance on three factors: Taxes, paychecks, and contraband. We need to of course deal with the last one realistically, but the first two still create economic issues with the fact it's feeding money for nothing. No effort, no work, nothing. The server needs things where when you start out, you only start out with $1000 and have to work your way up.
Methods of how this could be done? All though I'm usually against this type of thing, the devs could introduce a "Quarry Owner" NPC which effectively will pay people to mine rocks. Is it a slow process? Yes. But it'd allow people to make money no matter what. They would not have to rely on money printers and paychecks to give them money, and they would be always active.
Please note that this would only be a matter of allowing people to get their money up to the point where they can start investing into an actual business, but the fact of the matter still stands, we need to stipulate the current economy with actual hard labor and work.
Meth Production
As someone who has made these things while going through a curiosity phase(never used anything), I believe that the server should add different methods of producing methamphetamine. For those of you that are not aware of meth production, their is several ways you can go about it. Not just giant chem vats. One method is simply known as "Shake and Bake" it doesn't produce a whole lot of meth, and the meth is pretty shit usually, but it should be a method that is added to the server in order to give ways to make money in the lower income brackets.
As for the industrial methscale, the price should be increased for the production of high quality meth. Note I said, high quality. I still believe that other methods need to be looked into for the production of low quality meth like shake n' baking, oven top cooking, and fermentation + balloon cooking.
Opinion on moneypacks?
Moneypacks are not a good idea. At least in single payouts anyway. I'm still in the firm belief that the current donation system needs to be reworked so that the $50,000 isn't given immediately but instead given in small segments over the donation period. For example $5000 every week or how ever it could be implemented. Ideally this system would prevent the economy from being flooded with tons of cash.
Another thing which needs to be added in a system in which every money printer destroyed sends 10% to a server money pool. This money pool will exist for the prime reasons of being a "money pack" and players will be able to donate to it, to get some money. Of course a limit will exist on this, namely being the money pool being financed by destroyed contra, but it'll deal with the money pack issue and still keep the economy cycled.
More legal ways to make money?
Refer to my suggestion about having a basic "everyone can do this" mining NPC. Other methods which can be added are things like farming, mining, small game trapping, fishing(expanded), and otherwise just adding stuff which would nice to have for the server. I have made numerous suggestions regarding having farming act like the fish market where all food has no setprice, and I still firmly believe that's how the system should be handled.
For example: A player goes to the woods and finds a small mound of dirt on the ground. This mound of dirt can be scavenged from by clicking E, and by doing so the player will get seeds for farming. All seeds are completely random, but some will be more valuable simply by rarity. The player can now find a nice area with a grass or dirt plot, can put down a house dupe, and then plant their seeds.
The seeds will need to be watered with a watering can which can be purchased from a Chef, and occasionally the player will have to get rid of weed patches that spawn around their plants. Maybe we could have a system where crows will destroy food crops or something.
Either way, after about twenty to forty minutes(depending on the plant) the players will have a fully grown plant which will sprout either fruit, vegetables, medical herbs, berries, or hops. The items you harvest can be consumed directly and they will replenish health and give you minor stat boosts for five to ten minutes, or you could go about purchasing a moonshine still from a Chef, and go about making moonshine. The moonshine will take the effects of the items you put in, and will brew something which combines all the effects of the items you put in.
Once the moonshine distillery is finished cooking, it will spawn a wooden barrel which the player goes up to and clicks their use key, and then they get a menu asking them what they wish to name the brew. After they name it, the barrel will goto their inventory and the player from this point onwards the player can choose when they wish to spawn it down and begin serving it. Each barrel will contain five to ten drinks of moonshine.
When you spawn a "whiskey bottle" (glass bottles from HL2?) it'll show the name of the moonshine, date of production, and maybe it'll tell you the smell(hints at ingredients). This moonshine can be put into your inventory, and you'll be able to use it during raids or whenever you wish to drink it for fun.
The key aspect of this system is that the players will NEVER be told what attributes each fruit gives, and likewise they'll never be told what the moonshine they produce gives. This means that each player can make their own unique recipes, and sell products that can be used for increasing certain aspects of another player's attributes and skills. Eventually players will work things out by simply calculating differences in health, stamina, weapon stats, ect, but for a time it'll all be research and development.
If this system were added by the way, it'd also mean that all the food the chef produces cannot give attributes, but only decreases hunger. The reasoning for this is that the Chef job will directly counteract the ability of someone being able to make money if the chef can just make their own moonshine by manufacturing fruit.
And finally I have one more suggestion for fixing the economy which everyone will probably hate me for...
Food must rot, guns must degrade, and medical supplies must go bad. If something like this is never added, players will simply be able to stockpile and stockpile without lossing anything unless they die. We need some sort of system which stops people from doing this. I believe a system which can be introduced is having it so for every hour a player plays on the server some of their items will "go bad" and the player will have to delete them. This will be random, and it could mean that someone could just lose one thing of food or they could lose ten food and three guns.
I know you all probably do not like that idea, but it needs to be done. The economy needs to be cycled occasionally and moneysinks need to exist.
I talked to Raptor about this, infact, i tried to get Raptor to talk to the rest of the staff team about it. I get on the server everyday. I have around 10k. I go and setup a big contraband set and weed. I think to myself (Maybe in 3 hours i'll have like 30k!). The server crashes 5 minutes later. I end up with being really poor. I then have to spend around 5 hours being a gun dealer, just to make up for the money i spent. (This has actually happened and YES. I did count the hours.)
To me, this is unfair. It is not even fun anymore on limelight. I just gotta get the truth out of me. More money, More fun. That's how it is. I think moneypacks should be implemented, i think meth payout, should be increased. I even think contraband should be able to be upgraded. Maybe if you're a donator you get to upgrade it.
RE: Elegance
You need to keep in mind that donator is going to be (mostly) PURELY COSMETIC and should not give any in game advantage at all, so we can not make it so donators can upgrade contraband simply because they donated.
I do think that he has a valid complaint, though; sometimes it can be very difficult to break the initial low money barrier, and if you can't even afford a car, it's not very fun. That's why I've added some cheap but good cars and tomorrow there will be an even cheaper car added. I'll also be making paramedic/firemen jobs better in terms of money, and slightly increasing salaries for a few jobs.
Joey - I appreciate that you think raising salaries won't help, but low amounts of money has never been the issue. The problem on FL was that people were allowed to earn ridiculous amounts of money (through money-packs) and money-sinks were never added until the last few months before the split. By that point, it was too late to control the economy and bring it into sensible areas. Players should be able to earn enough to buy basic cars and weapons easily enough. I'll also be making kevlar etc. crash-proof ASAP so that players don't lose 1k in the event of a crash, and so that they can take it off.
I'm pondering with the idea of removing the lamborghini from the market once 21 of them are bought (or however many exist IRL) and that having that be it, or at least waiting a few weeks before offering them again. I want to see how super-rare commodities are really treated.
Alright folks, My opinion:
To be honest, the economy right now sucks, I feel meth is to OP, because people make 300K out of it each hour, before you start doing meth you need cash to begin with, I'd love to see one thing implanted, and that should be a Job Payout, whenever a Medic heals another man, he will get a amount of money (Think about 15$ Each 10 health he restores) make them go out more, respond quicker etc. For the fireman the same, he will earn money when he extinguish a fire, as for the Police the same, he will receive a bonus for arresting someone.
Cheers.
(Aug 24, 2015, 03:57 AM)Faustie link Wrote: [ -> ]I do think that he has a valid complaint, though; sometimes it can be very difficult to break the initial low money barrier, and if you can't even afford a car, it's not very fun. That's why I've added some cheap but good cars and tomorrow there will be an even cheaper car added. I'll also be making paramedic/firemen jobs better in terms of money, and slightly increasing salaries for a few jobs.
Joey - I appreciate that you think raising salaries won't help, but low amounts of money has never been the issue. The problem on FL was that people were allowed to earn ridiculous amounts of money (through money-packs) and money-sinks were never added until the last few months before the split. By that point, it was too late to control the economy and bring it into sensible areas. Players should be able to earn enough to buy basic cars and weapons easily enough. I'll also be making kevlar etc. crash-proof ASAP so that players don't lose 1k in the event of a crash, and so that they can take it off.
I'm pondering with the idea of removing the lamborghini from the market once 21 of them are bought (or however many exist IRL) and that having that be it, or at least waiting a few weeks before offering them again. I want to see how super-rare commodities are really treated.
Teddi is still open for contract work regarding making things crash proof, but as for the cars... Why not just make it so certain cars have to be built from scrap metal and such? Of course a new method of getting metal would have to be found, but doing something akin to this would stem out the amount of luxury cars on the market and make people more reliant on using standard non-glorified cars.
Also I totally agree with having it so people can make money to earn basics, but that's also why I suggested the quarry NPC. Users could go there and do mining work, and earn money that way. Not to mention this could also be a way that people could get scrap metal, therefore creating new economies which players gain money in no matter what.
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EDIT: I just thought of another money sink by the way. Of course people need to get healed and such, but one thing that just occured to me is that money can be taken from players to get healed. Follow me here: So lets say you have 50HP, and the medic comes to heal you. The price for the heal is $600. Wait, why is it $600? Why not 10hp = $100. Well this is because the system will have a way of making it so $100 is deducted from the economy and put into a money sink every time someone is healed. Not only will this stop issues relating to constant monetary issues, it'd also lower the need for certain things.
Another thing which has occurred to me is that the paramedic system needs to be more indepth. If someone is burnt by fire, they should suffer a burn damage which locks their HP down by 20% to 40% and they'd be required to goto the Evocity Hospital to be treated by paramedics with actual medical equipment like ointments and the like. This could also be applied to things like Stamina being dropped 40% for previous incidents of almost drowning, broken legs if shot in the legs, being unable to use weapons if shot in the arms... Ect. The idea is that no matter what, people would be required to goto the hospital, and the paramedics would have to take care of them from within a hospital room. All medical cases will take up to one minute, and require the use of different items within the hospital cabinets to heal the wounds and unlock people's healthbars, stamina bars, ect.
Would this be hard to code in? Probably, but it'd also bring a lot more interactivity to the medical field of CityRP.
Similar things can also be done for firefighters like random events popping up in request calls like, "Oh no my cat is stuck in a tree!" "Forest Fires have started!" "Carbon Monoxide leak in my household!" and just tons of other random events which will keep firefighters and paramedics active without the need of players to be doing anything. Similar stuff could possibly be done with the Police, but that's something I'd have to work out in my head. All these things would allow for less violent RP on the governments end, but it'd set an example of what could be done with non-government as well.
The two currently rarest cars should be limited in stock and should go off-sale after a certain amount of sales. These two cars are the Bentley Blower and the Lamborghini. As Faustie said, the Lamborghini should probably go off-sale after around 21 sales. Perhaps the Bentley Blower should go off-sale after around 30-35 sales as it's a car which is around 90 years old and not many of them would exist right now.
This would create a beneficial barrier between the rare cars, the common cars and the expensive cars. Some may be in more than one of those categories, such as the Lamborghini being rare and an expensive car. It would make seeing certain cars more of a rare sighting.