Limelight Forums

In just the little amount of time I've spent here, I have made a few friends. And to those of you - I appreciate you, and don't want this to affect the friendship we have.

However.

Again, in just the LITTLE amount of time I've been here, it has been more terrible than good.

I am constantly being harassed, belittled, targeted, insulted, among many other terrible things just because I am a woman. And nobody can do anything about it because of "insufficient evidence" or for "IC reason." But, my logic is - if it is IC, how is EVERYONE suddenly a misogynist? 

For example, I was targeted and this man repeatedly broke into my home despite having no reason to. I messaged him and asked him what exactly his problem was with me, and why he was targeting me? He said he wasn't, and then proceeded to get me arrested for a false charge. Nobody would meet with me for it, so I had to spend 15 minutes in jail for a crime I didn't commit. I messaged the online staff and said they couldn't do anything because of it being IC, even though after I messaged this man, he raided my place (for no reason) and proceeded to message me "karma is a bitch "

I don't do anything to anyone. I'm rather nice to most people and I don't deserve this kind of treatment.

I understand it's because a lot of players have never actually spoken to a girl before, but this is just ridiculous.

For no reason, I'll be called a "whore" or a "slut" and I've even had people act as if I were a prostitute, or only do nice things for me because I am a girl.

This is bullshit, and no one does anything about it. Just because I don't screenshot certain things when they happen is insufficient evidence, because staff is either incapable or just refuses to look through the logs. I mean, why the hell are the logs there in the first place?

I'll be honest, this server has been one of the worst role-play experiences since I've been role-playing; and PLEASE, for the sake of other potential lady players joining, learn some fucking respect.

I will not be returning. Please feel free to take the money from my bank and split it amongst yourselves, or give it to the only people who ever had any fucking respect for me. 

is leaving as well. He agrees this server has gone to shit. Please, for the love of God, clean your act up or else everyone will eventually realize how shit it is and leave as well. 

Again, thank you to those of you who've been nice to me, and welcomed me with open arms. But to the rest of you - please learn some respect.

I'm disappointed, but i'm not surprised.

Take care ‍. If this has been what you've been subjected to, then get the fuck out.
I also wish ‍ all the best too. I'm glad you both have exposed this. At least there is precedent now.

(Jan 4, 2020, 06:19 PM)Jeff Ford Wrote: [ -> ]I'm disappointed, but i'm not surprised.

Take care ‍. If this has been what you've been subjected to, then get the fuck out.
I also wish ‍ all the best too. I'm glad you both have exposed this. At least there is precedent now.

Disasty isn't online right now but he's told me you've always been one of the good ones. We both appreciate you for that, and thank you for understanding. Unfortunately I don't believe we've ever gotten to properly meet, but regardless, the support is really nice.

Welp, goodbye. You know my comments were jokes right? Mine were always meme-y Sorry if I was part of it xd

i thought i was very nice today

Respect Waemon.
SOA salutes you!

(Jan 4, 2020, 06:30 PM)Brin. Wrote: [ -> ]Welp, goodbye. You know my comments were jokes right? Mine were always meme-y Sorry if I was part of it xd

(Jan 4, 2020, 06:33 PM)Tom* Wrote: [ -> ]i thought i was very nice today

Not because of either of you. <3 Promise. You guys are good guys.

Bye ;/

Sad to see 2 amazing roleplayers builders leave

D:

As much as I would've wanted to help - but the logs aren't a magical thing that shows everything.

In-Character actions can often be mistaken. Sometimes people feel targeted or unfairly treated even when it's not actually a thing.

It'd be completely different, if there was a specific person constantly harassing you via OOC. I've been called a whore before as well in character when I played a female character. And people on LL do that a lot.
But the situation you described today is something that simply cannot be monitored unless it's - as stated above - obvious OOC harassment.

Regarding the woman thing:
We can tell people to be more polite and to keep their sticks in their pants when talking or referring to a girl, but that's about it.

Quote:Rule 1.6 and 1.6.1

You may not be racist, sexist or otherwise discriminatory to players out of character. This behaviour is tolerated in-character however your actions must have context and/or background RP to it.
________

In-character discrimination is allowed only on in-character text chat and in-character voice chat (including both text/voice radios), PMs, signs, notes, and the phonebooth. Presidents may also use broadcast but only if they also have dictator permission. Discrimination is not permitted on other chat or text input including but not limited to: OOC chat, LOOC chat, adverts, character names and descriptions, job names, clan names and ranks, license plates.

(Jan 4, 2020, 06:37 PM)roxas Wrote: [ -> ]As much as I would've wanted to help - but the logs aren't a magical thing that shows everything.

In-Character actions can often be mistaken. Sometimes people feel targeted or unfairly treated even when it's not actually a thing.

It'd be completely different, if there was a specific person constantly harassing you via OOC. I've been called a whore before as well in character when I played a female character. And people on LL do that a lot.
But the situation you described today is something that simply cannot be monitored unless it's - as stated above - obvious OOC harassment.

Regarding the woman thing:
We can tell people to be more polite and to keep their sticks in their pants when talking or referring to a girl, but that's about it.

Quote:Rule 1.6 and 1.6.1

You may not be racist, sexist or otherwise discriminatory to players out of character. This behaviour is tolerated in-character however your actions must have context and/or background RP to it.
________

In-character discrimination is allowed only on in-character text chat and in-character voice chat (including both text/voice radios), PMs, signs, notes, and the phonebooth. Presidents may also use broadcast but only if they also have dictator permission. Discrimination is not permitted on other chat or text input including but not limited to: OOC chat, LOOC chat, adverts, character names and descriptions, job names, clan names and ranks, license plates.

I understand staff members cannot perform magic, however it has been the entire experience of LL. Despite there being a rule, it is never followed. I've been harassed more than I've actually done good RP's, and nothing ever stops it. Or even lessens it just a bit.

Like I said, I know you can't perform magic. And I know a lot of the times it is IC. But I hope you understand that it makes my experience terrible, and this is why I'm leaving. 

I've always liked you, and nothing towards you that I'm saying is personal. I just can't take this anymore for the sake of my own sanity.

Edit to add: "your actions must have context and/or background RP to it" - is never the case. That rule is never followed properly, or at all.

So, after reading this post I decided that I want to not just write a copy & paste "Goodbye, sad to see you leaving" response but a more detailed one, sorry if it's too long or something.

I definitely understand and agree with you. I believe having witnessed certain "disadvantages" on your side, meaning how certain players treated you. It is a shame to see something like this happening. 

Regarding the "IC Reason" stuff: I'm definitely supporting the separation between IC and OOC related things, but there IS a border and if you go past it, there's no excuse in my opinion. From what you're telling me, those certain individuals indeed passed that border and went too far... It's okay to do "IC" stuff from time to time but always when seeing you, using those "IC" things to insult/harass you? Nope. 

Regarding targeting: I guess that can happen to everyone (and does happen to quite some), not just you. Those people can also often have a bullshit reason, you can't change the person itself though... I'm personally against that kind of targeting, at least once it leaves the IC-Universe for one of the involved parties. As long as both parties see it as IC-related things and don't take it personal, sure, go ahead. Once one party feels like being targeted as the person sitting at the computer, meaning personally, it is not okay and that kind of targeting should stop, really. I've seen members of staff telling certain people to not interact with each other too much anymore once it shifted towards OOC, don't know why this didn't happen in your case. Being targeted by the same people just for being a woman over and over again is not acceptable in my opinion.

The few times I met you on the streets you seemed like a nice and reasonable person, calm and kind, able to roleplay nicely. Treating you like a prostitute or calling you a "whore" for doing nothing or just being a woman is not even realistic. I mean sure, there are people with issues in real life that might be harassing every woman they see but this shouldn't be a thing on LimeLight in my opinion and definitely not to the extent it happened to you.



In the end, it's sad to see you leaving cause you were one of the ones that actually seemed like a "willing-to-roleplay" person with skill. During my time I've seen lots of people and I know for sure that there are people that tend to do that mingy stuff quite often... I totally understand you.


Goodbye ‍ and ‍, hopefully the issues you mentioned will be taken care of.

(Jan 4, 2020, 06:55 PM)kellekerell Wrote: [ -> ]So, after reading this post I decided that I want to not just write a copy & paste "Goodbye, sad to see you leaving" response but a more detailed one, sorry if it's too long or something.

I definitely understand and agree with you. I believe having witnessed certain "disadvantages" on your side, meaning how certain players treated you. It is a shame to see something like this happening. 

Regarding the "IC Reason" stuff: I'm definitely supporting the separation between IC and OOC related things, but there IS a border and if you go past it, there's no excuse in my opinion. From what you're telling me, those certain individuals indeed passed that border and went too far... It's okay to do "IC" stuff from time to time but always when seeing you, using those "IC" things to insult/harass you? Nope. 

Regarding targeting: I guess that can happen to everyone (and does happen to quite some), not just you. Those people can also often have a bullshit reason, you can't change the person itself though... I'm personally against that kind of targeting, at least once it leaves the IC-Universe for one of the involved parties. As long as both parties see it as IC-related things and don't take it personal, sure, go ahead. Once one party feels like being targeted as the person sitting at the computer, meaning personally, it is not okay and that kind of targeting should stop, really. I've seen members of staff telling certain people to not interact with each other too much anymore once it shifted towards OOC, don't know why this didn't happen in your case. Being targeted by the same people just for being a woman over and over again is not acceptable in my opinion.

The few times I met you on the streets you seemed like a nice and reasonable person, calm and kind, able to roleplay nicely. Treating you like a prostitute or calling you a "whore" for doing nothing or just being a woman is not even realistic. I mean sure, there are people with issues in real life that might be harassing every woman they see but this shouldn't be a thing on LimeLight in my opinion and definitely not to the extent it happened to you.



In the end, it's sad to see you leaving cause you were one of the ones that actually seemed like a "willing-to-roleplay" person with skill. During my time I've seen lots of people and I know for sure that there are people that tend to do that mingy stuff quite often... I totally understand you.


Goodbye ‍ and ‍, hopefully the issues you mentioned will be taken care of.

I’m really appreciative that at least someone noticed it besides the person sitting right next to me the majority of the time. 

Sure, the harassment wasn’t by everyone by any means, but in my opinion it happened far too often to be realistic. 

I appreciate your words a lot more than I can articulate and am glad to be supported. I doubt this post might change anything but I hope it will, for the sake of other potential lady players who may join.

I understand your reason to leave, and it is out of our hands sometimes in cases where people say they are being OOC harrassed using IC methods because in the past people tried to use this to get revenge on others. We try to be thorough in investigations in these cases but there is a thin line when it comes to OOC harassment using IC means and it's difficult to tell, sometimes even the players are not sure of the intent.

Our community is not great, people like being edgy, some even bask in annoying others or giving other's a bad time.

We are not lazy, and we do care. We are just not omnipotent enough to see what people's intentions behind their actions are which annoy staff more than they annoy you. I remember spending hours trying to figure out what is happening to reach the best conclusion on a case, I know other staff do the same. If they were lazy, they wouldn't spend their evenings after work on a server where some people just want to make other's lives miserable, including staff's.

Our staff has been on the receiving end of the targetted harassment during their time as a normal player or while staff.
I remember being arrested and held for 20 minutes while others got arrested, which I suspected was because I was staff but you can't prove it unless you get a confession or some how read their mind.

Finally, staff can't do much to change the attitude of the community, we can only talk about it but that's it.

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:15 PM)Bambo Wrote: [ -> ]I understand your reason to leave, and it is out of our hands sometimes in cases where people say they are being OOC harrassed using IC methods because in the past people tried to use this to get revenge on others. We try to be thorough in investigations in these cases but there is a thin line when it comes to OOC harassment using IC means and it's difficult to tell, sometimes even the players are not sure of the intent.

Our community is not great, people like being edgy, some even bask in annoying others or giving other's a bad time.

We are not lazy, and we do care. We are just not omnipotent enough to see what people's intentions behind their actions are which annoy staff more than they annoy you. I remember spending hours trying to figure out what is happening to reach the best conclusion on a case, I know other staff do the same. If they were lazy, they wouldn't spend their evenings after work on a server where some people just want to make other's lives miserable, including staff's.

Our staff has been on the receiving end of the targetted harassment during their time as a normal player or while staff.
I remember being arrested and held for 20 minutes while others got arrested, which I suspected was because I was staff but you can't prove it unless you get a confession or some how read their mind.

Finally, staff can't do much to change the attitude of the community, we can only talk about it but that's it.

I didn’t try to call anyone lazy, and if it came off that way, I apologize. 

However it was not difficult to see that I’d be harassed for no reason, considering I was generally a nice person and only played around with people. There was never any background or context as to why I’d be called a whore or a prostitute, among many other things. 

Like I’ve said, I understand there isn’t much to do on your end but it has made my experience absolute shit and I cannot take it anymore. I’ve been wanting to role-play since I’ve been on, and barely have because everyone either wants to agro RP or something similar. I’ve had one person be talked to for harassing me and that was it, despite everyone saying they’d be supportive and they understand what a woman can go through on this server. 

But it seems that nothing will ever change. So this is why I’m leaving. 

Didn’t mean to insult, but I’m just saying what I’ve seen and how I feel.

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:22 PM)Catastrophic Wrote: [ -> ]However it was not difficult to see that I’d be harassed for no reason, considering I was generally a nice person and only played around with people. There was never any background or context as to why I’d be called a whore or a prostitute, among many other things.

The thing is, that it's obvious to you, as you are the one feeling unfairly treated. You are more or less witnessing it the whole time.
Staff can't be flying around you 24/7 and analyze every action that is being taken upon you.

All we have right now are logs, which only show IC actions being taken against you. That is not a sufficient evidence for harassment.

As Bambo already said - we cannot look into people's brains. Unless ‍  writes us a script, which connects us to your brain thru your headphones so we can invade your thoughts.

We are sorry for that - but that's how it is. And this will be that way on every server. Not only Limelight.