Limelight Forums

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:33 PM)roxas Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:22 PM)Catastrophic Wrote: [ -> ]However it was not difficult to see that I’d be harassed for no reason, considering I was generally a nice person and only played around with people. There was never any background or context as to why I’d be called a whore or a prostitute, among many other things.

The thing is, that it's obvious to you, as you are the one feeling unfairly treated. You are more or less witnessing it the whole time.
Staff can't be flying around you 24/7 and analyze every action that is being taken upon you.

All we have right now are logs, which only show IC actions being taken against you. That is not a sufficient evidence for harassment.

As Bambo already said - we cannot look into people's brains. Unless ‍  writes us a script, which connects us to your brain thru your headphones so we can invade your thoughts.

We are sorry for that - but that's how it is. And this will be that way on every server. Not only Limelight.

I feel sorry for any woman who might join. I love how I’m told that staff members understand and support the harassment I may get until I post something basically saying “hey, this is what it happening.”

Stop taking it as a personal insult and start taking it as a heads up “hey, this is what is happening.”

I can see you’re butthurt but I’m already leaving. No point in repeating yourself as to why you can’t do anything. Obviously it isn’t going to get any better so have fun. You won’t have to go through what I’ve been through because you aren’t a woman and frankly, I’m jealous. 

Just a heads up - it another lady joins, don’t tell her how supportive you may all be because eventually she’ll realize nothing can be done anyways.

It's rather pointless to continue replying in my opinion, it's only going in circles.

Staff will continue to turn a blind eye to it because they cannot 'get into other peoples brains', it's easier for staff to look the other way because they're incapable of seeing peoples blatant intentions. 

Staff are always right & you're always wrong, it's never going to be any different & expecting things to change is a waste of energy.

We're leaving & inevitably will find somewhere else to go, so let's lay this to rest and let them go back to their norm.

All the best to both of you.

Personally, I feel as though you’re allowing the accused of winning by you both leaving. Do you have video evidence? If so; message this to a staff member. The tone of voice and context of said insults used can actually be determined to be either OOC or IC. 

Just my two cents on the matter. I hope that you can rise above this and find a resolution. 

Cheet x

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:57 PM)Cheet Wrote: [ -> ]All the best to both of you.

Personally, I feel as though you’re allowing the accused of winning by you both leaving. Do you have video evidence? If so; message this to a staff member. The tone of voice and context of said insults used can actually be determined to be either OOC or IC. 

Just my two cents on the matter. I hope that you can rise above this and find a resolution. 

Cheet x

Am big newb when it comes to pc’s so I don’t even know how to record. But I mean regardless, it has been ongoing since I joined and I don’t think it’s gonna end any time soon. I’d rather just leave than stress out about having to record every other interaction I have with people, and feel like a nuisance to the staff members. 

I understand where you’re coming from - but the fact that this is even an issue at all just makes me want to leave altogether.

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:59 PM)Catastrophic Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:57 PM)Cheet Wrote: [ -> ]All the best to both of you.

Personally, I feel as though you’re allowing the accused of winning by you both leaving. Do you have video evidence? If so; message this to a staff member. The tone of voice and context of said insults used can actually be determined to be either OOC or IC. 

Just my two cents on the matter. I hope that you can rise above this and find a resolution. 

Cheet x

Am big newb when it comes to pc’s so I don’t even know how to record. But I mean regardless, it has been ongoing since I joined and I don’t think it’s gonna end any time soon. I’d rather just leave than stress out about having to record every other interaction I have with people, and feel like a nuisance to the staff members. 

I understand where you’re coming from - but the fact that this is even an issue at all just makes me want to leave altogether.

What a shame. Most people are generally cunts, myself included. But saying you’re a nuisance to staff is bullshit. If you have an issue. It will be dealt with. You shouldn’t let them win. Evidence is vital. A simple YouTube tutorial on showing you the basic recording software and how to use it could have potentially resolved this.

OOC: I didn’t mean to say “cunts” as its me talking IC fam.

See how easy that is? Now I wont be warned for using the word “cunt” on the forums. Fuck you try ban me.

All kidding aside, everyone does the above. But there are ways of working round it. 100%.

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:38 PM)Catastrophic Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:33 PM)roxas Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:22 PM)Catastrophic Wrote: [ -> ]However it was not difficult to see that I’d be harassed for no reason, considering I was generally a nice person and only played around with people. There was never any background or context as to why I’d be called a whore or a prostitute, among many other things.

The thing is, that it's obvious to you, as you are the one feeling unfairly treated. You are more or less witnessing it the whole time.
Staff can't be flying around you 24/7 and analyze every action that is being taken upon you.

All we have right now are logs, which only show IC actions being taken against you. That is not a sufficient evidence for harassment.

As Bambo already said - we cannot look into people's brains. Unless "Doctor Internet"‍  writes us a script, which connects us to your brain thru your headphones so we can invade your thoughts.

We are sorry for that - but that's how it is. And this will be that way on every server. Not only Limelight.

I feel sorry for any woman who might join. I love how I’m told that staff members understand and support the harassment I may get until I post something basically saying “hey, this is what it happening.”

Stop taking it as a personal insult and start taking it as a heads up “hey, this is what is happening.”

I can see you’re butthurt but I’m already leaving. No point in repeating yourself as to why you can’t do anything. Obviously it isn’t going to get any better so have fun. You won’t have to go through what I’ve been through because you aren’t a woman and frankly, I’m jealous. 

Just a heads up - it another lady joins, don’t tell her how supportive you may all be because eventually she’ll realize nothing can be done anyways.

I don't think it's being taken as an insult. Consider it this way, we don't go through the same things you do, exactly. We go through similar things, which help us to empathise.

We get shit on for our decisions. People get banned, then make sarcastic comments, look through years of history for any excuse to get you fired, post reports on you for doing your job. You get called "a cancer on limelight". You're told that the only way for things to improve is to leave. You get told that they're gonna run over you in your wheelchair. You get told that you're a twat who should be demoted already. Cops spend 20 minutes running around, raiding the same building 4 times, then arrest you for having an oven. It's not because you're an admin though, it's just a coincidence. It's also a coincidence that the same time someone did the same thing (with the same dupe), with the same president, laws and cops, the week before, nothing happened to them. You get called out as "bias" for disagreeing with a team decision, then a month later everyone agrees with you. But it's not bias now, because it's a different group.

We get the shit you're going through, even though it's for different reasons. It's difficult to prevent, because "it's IC" is a pretty reasonable defence for a lot of it. There are people on this server who are genuine dicks as a cop, but will 180 the moment they're not. You know how blatant it has to be before we can reasonably ban someone? Someone had the "Nigger Beater Gang". Their ranks were all along the lines of "Imperial Nigger Lyncher". Their IC descriptions were along the lines of "Gonna kill all the staff at the Limelight Gym." Their license plates were N1GG3R, or some variation. They got banned, the clan deleted, and we put in a new rule disallowing that from happening again. And even then? The resulting discussion about it had 11 pages, and a 80% vote to remove it.

We also have to be careful with how we approach these things. Nobody wants to allow discrimination, harassment and everything else. Until those rules are applied to them. Then the admin who punished them is bias. Not only that, it's not the first time staff have been used to try and deal with a situation between two players. See the Givens vs Judge Rage, where every petty thing was made into a PR on both sides. See Dav1d and brave soldier (iirc). Hell, even see Zharkan's various UBRs.

Perhaps we're just "continuing to turn a blind eye to it because they cannot 'get into other peoples brains'" Perhaps it's "easier for staff to look the other way because they're incapable of seeing peoples blatant intentions. " Or perhaps we're trying to deal with extremely complicated, nuanced situations, where the same people who come for our help are also the first people to ream us if we enforce those same rules on them. Perhaps it doesn't help when the community is ready to pounce on any staff member sticking their head above the parapet.

It's a shit situation for you, because you feel like you're being ignored, that we're "turning a blind eye". It's shit for us, because we don't want people to feel like that. There's no point running a game server if people aren't having fun. That's the key fucking point of playing games.

If you decide to leave, then I wish you the best of luck. I hope it's just LL, and you can find a better place. I hope LL can improve, and maybe you'll come back.
If you change your mind, and decide to stay, then I hope we can get it resolved, and that you can still enjoy playing.

Good bye :/
i am sorry of i was part of that i have nothing against women and i hope you dont leave because i like all of you RP's and i hope you understand why i tried to raid you and desastro once its because i saw the weed but i promise you i have nothing against women i would  raid anyone if i saw his weeds.

(Jan 4, 2020, 08:13 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:38 PM)Catastrophic Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:33 PM)roxas Wrote: [ -> ]The thing is, that it's obvious to you, as you are the one feeling unfairly treated. You are more or less witnessing it the whole time.
Staff can't be flying around you 24/7 and analyze every action that is being taken upon you.

All we have right now are logs, which only show IC actions being taken against you. That is not a sufficient evidence for harassment.

As Bambo already said - we cannot look into people's brains. Unless "Doctor Internet"‍  writes us a script, which connects us to your brain thru your headphones so we can invade your thoughts.

We are sorry for that - but that's how it is. And this will be that way on every server. Not only Limelight.

I feel sorry for any woman who might join. I love how I’m told that staff members understand and support the harassment I may get until I post something basically saying “hey, this is what it happening.”

Stop taking it as a personal insult and start taking it as a heads up “hey, this is what is happening.”

I can see you’re butthurt but I’m already leaving. No point in repeating yourself as to why you can’t do anything. Obviously it isn’t going to get any better so have fun. You won’t have to go through what I’ve been through because you aren’t a woman and frankly, I’m jealous. 

Just a heads up - it another lady joins, don’t tell her how supportive you may all be because eventually she’ll realize nothing can be done anyways.

I don't think it's being taken as an insult. Consider it this way, we don't go through the same things you do, exactly. We go through similar things, which help us to empathise.

We get shit on for our decisions. People get banned, then make sarcastic comments, look through years of history for any excuse to get you fired, post reports on you for doing your job. You get called "a cancer on limelight". You're told that the only way for things to improve is to leave. You get told that they're gonna run over you in your wheelchair. You get told that you're a twat who should be demoted already. Cops spend 20 minutes running around, raiding the same building 4 times, then arrest you for having an oven. It's not because you're an admin though, it's just a coincidence. It's also a coincidence that the same time someone did the same thing (with the same dupe), with the same president, laws and cops, the week before, nothing happened to them. You get called out as "bias" for disagreeing with a team decision, then a month later everyone agrees with you. But it's not bias now, because it's a different group.

We get the shit you're going through, even though it's for different reasons. It's difficult to prevent, because "it's IC" is a pretty reasonable defence for a lot of it. There are people on this server who are genuine dicks as a cop, but will 180 the moment they're not. You know how blatant it has to be before we can reasonably ban someone? Someone had the "Nigger Beater Gang". Their ranks were all along the lines of "Imperial Nigger Lyncher". Their IC descriptions were along the lines of "Gonna kill all the staff at the Limelight Gym." Their license plates were N1GG3R, or some variation. They got banned, the clan deleted, and we put in a new rule disallowing that from happening again. And even then? The resulting discussion about it had 11 pages, and a 80% vote to remove it.

We also have to be careful with how we approach these things. Nobody wants to allow discrimination, harassment and everything else. Until those rules are applied to them. Then the admin who punished them is bias. Not only that, it's not the first time staff have been used to try and deal with a situation between two players. See the Givens vs Judge Rage, where every petty thing was made into a PR on both sides. See Dav1d and brave soldier (iirc). Hell, even see Zharkan's various UBRs.

Perhaps we're just "continuing to turn a blind eye to it because they cannot 'get into other peoples brains'" Perhaps it's "easier for staff to look the other way because they're incapable of seeing peoples blatant intentions. " Or perhaps we're trying to deal with extremely complicated, nuanced situations, where the same people who come for our help are also the first people to ream us if we enforce those same rules on them. Perhaps it doesn't help when the community is ready to pounce on any staff member sticking their head above the parapet.

It's a shit situation for you, because you feel like you're being ignored, that we're "turning a blind eye". It's shit for us, because we don't want people to feel like that. There's no point running a game server if people aren't having fun. That's the key fucking point of playing games.

If you decide to leave, then I wish you the best of luck. I hope it's just LL, and you can find a better place. I hope LL can improve, and maybe you'll come back.
If you change your mind, and decide to stay, then I hope we can get it resolved, and that you can still enjoy playing.

Like I said, I didn’t mean to insult anyone. Most of the staff members I've dealt with have been incredibly nice. And I know you guys cannot read people’s minds, you put it perfectly. I do feel like I’m being ignored. 

And it isn’t necessarily that there isn’t anything being done about it - it’s the fact that this is all happening in the first place that bothers me. I understand there will always be dicks but the fact that there’s SO MANY is what makes my experience terrible. 

I understand staff cannot be there 24/7 and frankly yes, it’s my fault for not recording or grabbing as many screen captures as I could. 

But if I had to record and screenshot every harassment I’ve been through, I’d be posting PR’s once a week or even every other day. 

I didn’t want to insult staff but rather point out my experience I’ve had and hopefully it can be taken more seriously.

Edit: to fix grammar.

(Jan 4, 2020, 08:14 PM)brave soldier Wrote: [ -> ]Good bye :/
i am sorry of i was part of that i have nothing against women and i hope you dont leave because i like all of you RP's and i hope you understand why i tried to raid you and desastro once its because i saw the weed but i promise you i have nothing against women i would  raid anyone if i saw his weeds.

Lol, not about you man. <3 Talking about the treatment I’ve had just because I’m a woman, which you’ve never done. Because conveniently, no one treated me bad when Disasty was around. 

What you did was RP based and it was fine. No hard feelings against you.

(Jan 4, 2020, 08:18 PM)Catastrophic Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 08:13 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:38 PM)Catastrophic Wrote: [ -> ]I feel sorry for any woman who might join. I love how I’m told that staff members understand and support the harassment I may get until I post something basically saying “hey, this is what it happening.”

Stop taking it as a personal insult and start taking it as a heads up “hey, this is what is happening.”

I can see you’re butthurt but I’m already leaving. No point in repeating yourself as to why you can’t do anything. Obviously it isn’t going to get any better so have fun. You won’t have to go through what I’ve been through because you aren’t a woman and frankly, I’m jealous. 

Just a heads up - it another lady joins, don’t tell her how supportive you may all be because eventually she’ll realize nothing can be done anyways.

I don't think it's being taken as an insult. Consider it this way, we don't go through the same things you do, exactly. We go through similar things, which help us to empathise.

We get shit on for our decisions. People get banned, then make sarcastic comments, look through years of history for any excuse to get you fired, post reports on you for doing your job. You get called "a cancer on limelight". You're told that the only way for things to improve is to leave. You get told that they're gonna run over you in your wheelchair. You get told that you're a twat who should be demoted already. Cops spend 20 minutes running around, raiding the same building 4 times, then arrest you for having an oven. It's not because you're an admin though, it's just a coincidence. It's also a coincidence that the same time someone did the same thing (with the same dupe), with the same president, laws and cops, the week before, nothing happened to them. You get called out as "bias" for disagreeing with a team decision, then a month later everyone agrees with you. But it's not bias now, because it's a different group.

We get the shit you're going through, even though it's for different reasons. It's difficult to prevent, because "it's IC" is a pretty reasonable defence for a lot of it. There are people on this server who are genuine dicks as a cop, but will 180 the moment they're not. You know how blatant it has to be before we can reasonably ban someone? Someone had the "Nigger Beater Gang". Their ranks were all along the lines of "Imperial Nigger Lyncher". Their IC descriptions were along the lines of "Gonna kill all the staff at the Limelight Gym." Their license plates were N1GG3R, or some variation. They got banned, the clan deleted, and we put in a new rule disallowing that from happening again. And even then? The resulting discussion about it had 11 pages, and a 80% vote to remove it.

We also have to be careful with how we approach these things. Nobody wants to allow discrimination, harassment and everything else. Until those rules are applied to them. Then the admin who punished them is bias. Not only that, it's not the first time staff have been used to try and deal with a situation between two players. See the Givens vs Judge Rage, where every petty thing was made into a PR on both sides. See Dav1d and brave soldier (iirc). Hell, even see Zharkan's various UBRs.

Perhaps we're just "continuing to turn a blind eye to it because they cannot 'get into other peoples brains'" Perhaps it's "easier for staff to look the other way because they're incapable of seeing peoples blatant intentions. " Or perhaps we're trying to deal with extremely complicated, nuanced situations, where the same people who come for our help are also the first people to ream us if we enforce those same rules on them. Perhaps it doesn't help when the community is ready to pounce on any staff member sticking their head above the parapet.

It's a shit situation for you, because you feel like you're being ignored, that we're "turning a blind eye". It's shit for us, because we don't want people to feel like that. There's no point running a game server if people aren't having fun. That's the key fucking point of playing games.

If you decide to leave, then I wish you the best of luck. I hope it's just LL, and you can find a better place. I hope LL can improve, and maybe you'll come back.
If you change your mind, and decide to stay, then I hope we can get it resolved, and that you can still enjoy playing.

Like I said, I didn’t mean to insult anyone. Most of the staff members I've dealt with have been incredibly nice. And I know you guys cannot read people’s minds, you put it perfectly. I do feel like I’m being ignored. 

And it isn’t necessarily that there isn’t anything being done about it - it’s the fact that this is all happening in the first place that bothers me. I understand there will always be dicks but the fact that there’s SO MANY is what makes my experience terrible. 

I understand staff cannot be there 24/7 and frankly yes, it’s my fault for not recording or grabbing as many screen captures as I could. 

But if I had to record and screenshot every harassment I’ve been through, I’d be posting PR’s once a week or even every other day. 

I didn’t want to insult staff but rather point out my experience I’ve had and hopefully it can be taken more seriously.

Edit: to fix grammar.

I'm not personally offended, nor really is anyone else. It's just a shit situation for everyone all around.
None of the staff want this to happen, as I said. We run a game server, the key part of games is to be fun. Being harrassed isn't fun.

But it's shit. We're having to walk a fine line, between literally not banning anyone, and banning anyone who interacts (two far extremes, but you get the point). It's a shit situation for any victims, because they're gonna feel like we're not doing anything (as you said), it's shit for us because we can't do anything, and end up getting blasted in shit like this, no matter if we do anything or not (because we're either bias nazis who ban people for IC shit, or incompetent fucktards who don't do anything against harassment (again, extremes but you get the point)). The only people who win are harassers, and that fucking crap. I want it to change, but I don't know what we can do. Changing community attitudes takes a long time to do, putting new rules in is very unpopular and often gets backlash. Eh, I just don't know.

Either way, the best of luck, and I wish both you and the best.

I never got to see you in-game but I know Disastrous so it's a shame to see you both go. It's a shame that the community can be like it has been to you but it is what it is and hopefully it'll eventually change for the better.

Good luck with whatever you do

I am upsetti spaghetti now.. 😢

Shame to see you both leave but I completely understand the reason's behind why you are. Please do keep in touch both of you, all the best for wherever you end up next! (Also give a kick in the bum for me pls thanks)

(Jan 4, 2020, 06:35 PM)Catastrophic Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 06:30 PM)Brin. Wrote: [ -> ]Welp, goodbye. You know my comments were jokes right? Mine were always meme-y Sorry if I was part of it xd

(Jan 4, 2020, 06:33 PM)Tom* Wrote: [ -> ]i thought i was very nice today

Not because of either of you. <3 Promise. You guys are good guys.

(Jan 4, 2020, 08:13 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:38 PM)Catastrophic Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 4, 2020, 07:33 PM)roxas Wrote: [ -> ]The thing is, that it's obvious to you, as you are the one feeling unfairly treated. You are more or less witnessing it the whole time.
Staff can't be flying around you 24/7 and analyze every action that is being taken upon you.

All we have right now are logs, which only show IC actions being taken against you. That is not a sufficient evidence for harassment.

As Bambo already said - we cannot look into people's brains. Unless "Doctor Internet"‍  writes us a script, which connects us to your brain thru your headphones so we can invade your thoughts.

We are sorry for that - but that's how it is. And this will be that way on every server. Not only Limelight.

I feel sorry for any woman who might join. I love how I’m told that staff members understand and support the harassment I may get until I post something basically saying “hey, this is what it happening.”

Stop taking it as a personal insult and start taking it as a heads up “hey, this is what is happening.”

I can see you’re butthurt but I’m already leaving. No point in repeating yourself as to why you can’t do anything. Obviously it isn’t going to get any better so have fun. You won’t have to go through what I’ve been through because you aren’t a woman and frankly, I’m jealous. 

Just a heads up - it another lady joins, don’t tell her how supportive you may all be because eventually she’ll realize nothing can be done anyways.

I don't think it's being taken as an insult. Consider it this way, we don't go through the same things you do, exactly. We go through similar things, which help us to empathise.

We get shit on for our decisions. People get banned, then make sarcastic comments, look through years of history for any excuse to get you fired, post reports on you for doing your job. You get called "a cancer on limelight". You're told that the only way for things to improve is to leave. You get told that they're gonna run over you in your wheelchair. You get told that you're a twat who should be demoted already. Cops spend 20 minutes running around, raiding the same building 4 times, then arrest you for having an oven. It's not because you're an admin though, it's just a coincidence. It's also a coincidence that the same time someone did the same thing (with the same dupe), with the same president, laws and cops, the week before, nothing happened to them. You get called out as "bias" for disagreeing with a team decision, then a month later everyone agrees with you. But it's not bias now, because it's a different group.

We get the shit you're going through, even though it's for different reasons. It's difficult to prevent, because "it's IC" is a pretty reasonable defence for a lot of it. There are people on this server who are genuine dicks as a cop, but will 180 the moment they're not. You know how blatant it has to be before we can reasonably ban someone? Someone had the "Nigger Beater Gang". Their ranks were all along the lines of "Imperial Nigger Lyncher". Their IC descriptions were along the lines of "Gonna kill all the staff at the Limelight Gym." Their license plates were N1GG3R, or some variation. They got banned, the clan deleted, and we put in a new rule disallowing that from happening again. And even then? The resulting discussion about it had 11 pages, and a 80% vote to remove it.

We also have to be careful with how we approach these things. Nobody wants to allow discrimination, harassment and everything else. Until those rules are applied to them. Then the admin who punished them is bias. Not only that, it's not the first time staff have been used to try and deal with a situation between two players. See the Givens vs Judge Rage, where every petty thing was made into a PR on both sides. See Dav1d and brave soldier (iirc). Hell, even see Zharkan's various UBRs.

Perhaps we're just "continuing to turn a blind eye to it because they cannot 'get into other peoples brains'" Perhaps it's "easier for staff to look the other way because they're incapable of seeing peoples blatant intentions. " Or perhaps we're trying to deal with extremely complicated, nuanced situations, where the same people who come for our help are also the first people to ream us if we enforce those same rules on them. Perhaps it doesn't help when the community is ready to pounce on any staff member sticking their head above the parapet.

It's a shit situation for you, because you feel like you're being ignored, that we're "turning a blind eye". It's shit for us, because we don't want people to feel like that. There's no point running a game server if people aren't having fun. That's the key fucking point of playing games.

If you decide to leave, then I wish you the best of luck. I hope it's just LL, and you can find a better place. I hope LL can improve, and maybe you'll come back.
If you change your mind, and decide to stay, then I hope we can get it resolved, and that you can still enjoy playing.

To me this comes across as 'We won't do anything because we will just get moaned at'

It is honestly a shame you have been brought to that point, sadly thats the nature of the game and the major part of the audience the server gets, not that it makes it right or better.

Have fun whatever you do next! Maybe this can help find a way to eliminate what you brought up.