Reported Players: Kurdayeti (STEAM_0:1:82662812) (
)
Server: Rockford
Time: 2018-Oct-19 22:57
Summary: Kurdayeti became president and immediately created a law stating that all officers could only carry NON lethal weaponry as a law. Only SWAT was allowed lethal weaponry. An admin got involved, and the law was removed. However during all of this kurdayeti insulted and threatened many of his police officers with their jobs. Including me. The police chief. We decided to inform him of our concerns and not only did he not listen, more threats followed. The police force as a whole, including SWAT, went on a peaceful protest, under the supervision of as the current active administrator online. It was a peaceful protest under which many citizens also joined because the president bordered dictatorship. The president was OOC warned not to demote as to not to powergame, but IC he also would not join the protest. After a while once the admin had left and 1 or 2 SSA's hopped on, (1 of which who also joined the protest) he started threatening with demotion again. Even making a law that went directly against the moderators (Wesley) earlier orders. Evidence of this is attached, along with the demotion of Sly Hase from police chief, he had gotten the role at the time. At this point i contacted Wesley out of game, who informed me he could not come on at the time, therefor, this PR. Thank you.
To clarify any reasons for which the protests happened IC: Ignoring of government employee's advices and concerns, Insulting and threatening of said employees, Demanding "tests of loyalty" through disarming the whole police force, edging the border of dictatorship with extremist laws and refusing proper conversation, walking out on negotiations multiple times, demanding everything was done on his terms.
The entire police department agreed with that, and I imagine some of them will comment on this fact, half the server by the end was a part of the protest.
Evidence: https://imgur.com/a/P13izkQ
I can confirm 's side of the story.
Kurdayeti has repeatedly ignored the orders of the moderator Wesly (Do not demote protesting officers, do not enforce completely unrealistic laws).
He demoted a peacefully protesting officer after setting up such laws again and after that - me.
In all Kurda acted childish, nearly hopped ooc without being asked to do so all of the times (This is FailRP, Ive got Screenshots, PR ... are things he said all the time.)
Hello
Clarification: The only thing Wesley told me was to not restrict lethal weaponry from police officers. However, I completely disagree with this decision as it doesn't go against any rules at all, but I still removed the law to satisfy the protesters and comply with staff. The lethal weapons were removed from the officers because I felt that they weren't necessary when we already had a SWAT team ready to deploy. There would be very few reasons to open fire towards an unarmed officer.
As a reference that this law is realistic: (Officers in London do not carry weapons) https://www.quora.com/When-did-British-p...g-firearms
As you describe I later added a law which stated "All government workers shall never protest while on duty. Doing so is an illegal act and will be seen as a betrayal to the country. It shall be punished by a demotion and an arrest". This law did not go against Wesley's previous decision and it was not added with the intention of restricting you from protesting. I told you in a broadcast shortly after that you could continue protesting when you had taken your uniform off and was off duty. The law was added in an attempt to gain more control of the government which at the time was in total chaos.
As I said, you can protest if you want but do it when you're off-duty. I did not say that you are not allowed to protest.
Evidence: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1543039255
As a reference that this law is realistic: https://www.quora.com/Can-a-police-offic...believe-in.
I also believe that the police chief () broke rule 11.3 stating: "You may be corrupt, but only if it does not directly endanger the lives of officers or civilians. Corruption has limits and should benefit your character, it does not allow you to go around beating up citizens for no reason or making up completely random arrest warrants. The Police Chief may not be corrupt without staff permission."
I believe rule 11.3 was broken by the police chief () as he attacked me by rushing into the Town Hall lobby and tasing me; clearly an attack against the president and the country. I do not believe he had any permission to be corrupt and attack the president as there were no active admins at the time. You can also see by the screenshots that he said "As soon as his SSA fuck off ill taze him" which was a message sent to me but that I think was for someone else; clearly showing corruption by the police chief ().
I also believe that the police chief () broke rule 11.4 stating: "You may kill/injure other government members, but only if they are an immediate threat to your life, the lives of innocent people, or if it is your only valid option while on-duty. Do not injure/kill for revenge, personal gain, grudges, etc. The Secret Service may never attack the president. "
I believe rule 11.4 was broken as it clearly was an attack when he tazed me. His intentions were to harm the president (me) to make sure that I would leave my spot.
I also want to point out that I never experienced that the protest was peaceful. I did multiple times receive threats that I would be killed, tazed, etc. You can also see people in the screenshots screaming "RIOT" and advertings "Fuck the president". That's not a peaceful protest, that's a riot.
Evidence: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1543039190
About the demotion: I did not demote the police chief () with the intention of removing him from the protest, I had already left the scene where the protest was taking place. He was removed from his job because he attacked me with a taser and did obviously show full-blown corruption. The demotion reason stated, "Tazing the president" which clearly states what he did wrong and that he did something corrupt.
Evidence of Luvbunny corruption PM as well and proof of this protest not being peaceful: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1543039312
You can see the Chief's intention and the phonebooth as well. How is this a peaceful protest?
There's no dictatorial law in the laws at that time anyway.
Screenshot of the laws at that time: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1543039128
(Oct 20, 2018, 01:12 AM)Luvbunny Wrote: [ -> ]I can confirm 's side of the story.
Kurdayeti has repeatedly ignored the orders of the moderator Wesly (Do not demote protesting officers, do not enforce completely unrealistic laws).
He demoted a peacefully protesting officer after setting up such laws again and after that - me.
In all Kurda acted childish, nearly hopped ooc without being asked to do so all of the times (This is FailRP, Ive got Screenshots, PR ... are things he said all the time.)
You were
NOT a peacefully protesting officer, at all. Look at the screenshots below.
Evidence of corruption:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1543039312
Evidence of demotion reason:
[font=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif]https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1543039190 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif]The demotion was completely justified from the bottom to the top due to corruption, not due to the fact that you were protesting.[/font]
May I begin with , Yes Wesley (From what i remember) did actually tell you not to demote people for protesting, as it would fall under powergaming. As for what Wesley may or may not have mentioned, I will let
speak for himself on that matter in this case though, as he would know best.
I will follow with saying that the police at NO point threatened you. Officers that made the protest NON peaceful (Which was only 1 person, ishnifan, very early on) were demoted on the spot after a few warnings. All the other threats came from citizens who you insulted and made feel unwelcome within the city.
To your quote about the lethal weapons law being realistic: As a reference that this law is realistic: (Officers in London do not carry weapons) https://www.quora.com/When-did-British-p...g-firearms
To this I will say that yes, in Britain this would maybe be realistic, however server rules and mechanics are not based on that. Civilians have easy access to guns and you can assume that citizens can be armed at all times within the server. Also, NON lethal does not exactly exist. Less than lethal does, as Wesley explained. Again though, police officers in Rockford have a whole different level of violence and weaponry to deal with than a standard officer in the UK. Gmod is not always realistic. Therefor not all laws can be. It makes total sense to why you could not prohibit officers from having any sort of lethal weaponry.
The government was not in chaos, we all sat outside of townhall, ive actually rarely seen such a peaceful time on the server, it was chaos for YOU cause it was directed at YOU.
Luvbunny was not corrupt, he was protesting. Your SSA came out pointing guns multiple times, on your command apparently. At no point were threats made to you from the government other than, until you change, we will not go to work. You just wanted to disarm us in case you decided you wanted us arrested, its the same reason you didnt show up to the negotiations till 45 minutes in, cause you were scared something would happen. You acted as if you were a dictator in the way you communicated with government, and we near the end silently protested about it. We didnt even broadcast anymore cause you would just ignore it.
The screenshots of luvbunny (Which I wasnt aware of till now) was after your SSA had already tried to strong arm us, and you had left us without negotiating in the town hall square for even an HOUR real time.
Officers can have their guns and protest, and have it still be a peaceful protest, hell the guns helped it remain peaceful cause we could enforce the peace within the protest.
To your quote about the protesting: "Yes. However, you cannot do it “in uniform.” That would imply that the deparment “approves” of the protest, even if it is the opinions of individual officers."
To the above I will state. The whole department was protesting, not an individual. It was sanctioned by the chief, and every officer including SWAT participated. Therefor, in Uniform, as it was the department as a whole.
Last but not least "There is no dictatorial law in the laws". Thats cause you barely had any laws, all of the acting like a dictator was done through voice commands towards the government, and the way you treated them. Making laws to diminish them. Giving commands to "test loyalty". And overall ignoring their well being and wishes. This PR is about you, FailRP, and ignoring in my eyes a moderators direct commands of what not to do. This PR is not about Luvbunny. If you think Luvbunny broke a role, make a PR about it.
Edit: Have a nice day. (Forgot to write that)
(Oct 20, 2018, 02:02 AM)Kurdayeti Wrote: [ -> ]Hello
Well, apparently not me, as you are obviously not making this entire response about me.
Clarification: The only thing Wesley told me was to not restrict lethal weaponry from police officers. However, I completely disagree with this decision as it doesn't go against any rules at all, but I still removed the law to satisfy the protesters and comply with staff.
I do not see how it is up for you to decide now if you can follow an order of a moderator or not. He explained it to you in all calmness.
This is also incorrect, he has clearly stated that we are free to protest if we had valid ingame reasons. We did have them as already mentioned by Oneshott above:
Ignoring of government employee's advices and concerns, Insulting and threatening of said employees, Demanding "tests of loyalty" through disarming the whole police force, edging the border of dictatorship with extremist laws and refusing proper conversation, walking out on negotiations multiple times, demanding everything was done on his terms.
At this point id like to add that you were lying during that staff sit stating you'd have come to the PD for a meeting while in reality you just turned up to hiss at the officers.
The lethal weapons were removed from the officers because I felt that they weren't necessary when we already had a SWAT team ready to deploy. There would be very few reasons to open fire towards an unarmed officer.
As a reference that this law is realistic: (Officers in London do not carry weapons) https://www.quora.com/When-did-British-p...g-firearms
As the moderator Wesley arleady stated in the sit that has taken place, while he has forbidden your unrealistic law, the RP - by default - takes place in the US. As we were running a sheriffs office quoting a UK law - one of the very few countries to not allow their officers to carry firearms by default (I smell biased quoting) i do not see how this is supposed to support your claims in any way.
As you describe I later added a law which stated "All government workers shall never protest while on duty. Doing so is an illegal act and will be seen as a betrayal to the country. It shall be punished by a demotion and an arrest". This law did not go against Wesley's previous decision and it was not added with the intention of restricting you from protesting. I told you in a broadcast shortly after that you could continue protesting when you had taken your uniform off and was off duty. The law was added in an attempt to gain more control of the government which at the time was in total chaos.
The entire police force, your secretary, your vice president were against you. You couldnt have possibly gained any control as their was literally noone that could have enforced that. Wesley clearly stated that you were not to demote anyone in regards to the FailRP and Powergaming rule. You did so anyways.
As I said, you can protest if you want but do it when you're off-duty. I did not say that you are not allowed to protest.
Evidence: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1543039255
You were not to decide how we had the protest. You did so anways. You had noone on your side while the entire government and some citizens were protesting you. Demoting them with having so less power seems very critical to me.
As a reference that this law is realistic: https://www.quora.com/Can-a-police-offic...believe-in.
Did you really just used a Q&A site as a solid argument?
I also believe that the police chief () broke rule 11.3 stating: "You may be corrupt, but only if it does not directly endanger the lives of officers or civilians. Corruption has limits and should benefit your character, it does not allow you to go around beating up citizens for no reason or making up completely random arrest warrants. The Police Chief may not be corrupt without staff permission."
I believe rule 11.3 was broken by the police chief () as he attacked me by rushing into the Town Hall lobby and tasing me; clearly an attack against the president and the country. I do not believe he had any permission to be corrupt and attack the president as there were no active admins at the time. You can also see by the screenshots that he said "As soon as his SSA fuck off ill taze him" which was a message sent to me but that I think was for someone else; clearly showing corruption by the police chief ().
I cannot believe that you actually have the audacity to accuse me of corruption:
You were being a Dictator with threatening everyone and everything to lose their job, advising your SSA to threaten citizens and officers by pointing guns at them, and all that without a proper admin permission if i may say.
And not just once. We were protesting for hours and you kept on denying all means of communication and kept on threatening us.
You started to order your SSA to threaten citizen lifes and also demoted my officers (at that time) for peacefully protesting. All that lead me to the decision to end your dictatorship with the lowest intensity possible, the tazer in this case.
If i may add: I was heavily injured after doing so. So much for being corrupt.
I also believe that the police chief () broke rule 11.4 stating: "You may kill/injure other government members, but only if they are an immediate threat to your life, the lives of innocent people, or if it is your only valid option while on-duty. Do not injure/kill for revenge, personal gain, grudges, etc. The Secret Service may never attack the president. "
I believe rule 11.4 was broken as it clearly was an attack when he tazed me. His intentions were to harm the president (me) to make sure that I would leave my spot.
If i would have planned to harm you i would have done something entirely different.
I also want to point out that I never experienced that the protest was peaceful. I did multiple times receive threats that I would be killed, tazed, etc. You can also see people in the screenshots screaming "RIOT" and advertings "Fuck the president". That's not a peaceful protest, that's a riot.
Evidence: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1543039190
This is the most unhonest lie ive heard since a long time.
We were all sitting around a campfire, having nice conversations and listening to music. Everyone that went violent was instantly removed. We were at some point ignoring your broadcasts and just waited for your arrival to see what you had to tell us. At no point were you put under gunpoint.
In fact YOU did show agressive tendencies towards us. You advised your SSA to point weapons at us and our citizens.
About the demotion: I did not demote the police chief () with the intention of removing him from the protest, I had already left the scene where the protest was taking place. He was removed from his job because he attacked me with a taser and did obviously show full-blown corruption. The demotion reason stated, "Tazing the president" which clearly states what he did wrong and that he did something corrupt.
Evidence of Luvbunny corruption PM as well and proof of this protest not being peaceful: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1543039312
This is - like all of your comments - taken out of context and a message that was sent after the protest was over - after your agressive manner.
You can see the Chief's intention and the phonebooth as well. How is this a peaceful protest?
I wasnt even the chief for most of the time. You fuled everyones heat by constantly threatening and after all demoting people.
There's no dictatorial law in the laws at that time anyway.
Screenshot of the laws at that time: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1543039128
This was obviously set up so you could use your demotion powers to get rid of everyone.
(Oct 20, 2018, 02:04 AM)Kurdayeti Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct 20, 2018, 01:12 AM)Luvbunny Wrote: [ -> ]I can confirm 's side of the story.
Kurdayeti has repeatedly ignored the orders of the moderator Wesly (Do not demote protesting officers, do not enforce completely unrealistic laws).
He demoted a peacefully protesting officer after setting up such laws again and after that - me.
In all Kurda acted childish, nearly hopped ooc without being asked to do so all of the times (This is FailRP, Ive got Screenshots, PR ... are things he said all the time.)
You were NOT a peacefully protesting officer, at all. Look at the screenshots below.
Evidence of corruption:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1543039312
Evidence of demotion reason:
[font=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif]https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1543039190 [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif]The demotion was completely justified from the bottom to the top due to corruption, not due to the fact that you were protesting.[/font]
We were in fact peacefully protesting, you did constantly threaten us and kept throwing orders at us, even advising your SSA to point guns at us at some point.
I agree with luvbunny's statements above.
Id like to sum up my responses:
I believe that Kurdayeti violated following rules during his time as a dictator:
11.8 - Being a dictator without administrative permission.
3.4 - Powergaming: Demoting police officers while he had no power (every government worker but him were protesting) and setting up laws designed to just get others kicked off the job. I believe this is due to prior arrest that were conducted on him.
3.3 - FailRP: Setting up unrealistic laws
3.4 - Powergaming: Demoting people over unrealistic laws.
3.3 - FailRP: Constantly saying things like "I have screenshots" or "This is FailRP" or "You cant do that".
3.3 - FailRP: Acting like a person with godlike powers while he had not a single government official not protesting that could possibly enforce it.
3.3 - FailRP: Calling lockdowns without anyone being there to enforce it.
3.4 - Powergaming: Setting the taxes to 20% because "some protester was playing the piano"
Involved (Kind of)
Here is a video of the president () getting attacked with a taser by . If you watch the video slowly you can see that he first taze and then switches to an MP5 which then makes me take the decision to open fire.
Will await input.
From what I have seen the main arguments here are;
President was a dictator without staff approval.
President power gamed to demote those opposing him especially when not in a position to.
Setting up rules that would be considered failrp with our gamemode in mind.
Also, I wouldn't count a Police Chief tasing a dictator being corrupt. He is getting rid of the corrupt.
Good morning,
My input is as following, and not much different than has already been mentioned here.
I have made
aware of the following things:
- To make a law, stating that the deputies of a Sheriff's Office aren't allowed to carry lethal weaponry and only made deputies of the SWAT team carried aforementioned as well as responding to anything that was potentially ending with lethal force, isn't allowed;
- That he wasn't allowed to demote anyone only for the reason of them being on strike as it'd be a crazy amount of police officers that would get fired as soon as they come together to strike for a better work environment;
- That I felt like he made the aforementioned laws to get back at the Sheriff's Office for them arresting him shortly prior to him switching into a presidential slot.
- To make a law, stating that government members aren't allowed to strike/protest against their work environment would be an instantaneous demotion reason, isn't allowed.
This is because the first line regards FailRP. No American Sheriff's Office would disallow their deputies to not carry a lethal form of last resort. Like it's been said before:
Quote:Firstly, that forces players to buy from the lockers
Secondly, it makes the game completely unfun for police
Thirdly, it is entirely unrealistic in our every-citizen-probably-has-a-gun society
I agreed with the text given to me, and hence is why I decided to force you to remove the laws, which you did.
However, about the demoting active government personnel if they go on strike against the bar conditions you set for them, is not allowed as, in my opinion ( and I am sure in other people's opinion ) a dictatorial law. A law that you didn't get permission for.
This is a law that you created after the server crashed and you regained a position to the presidential slot, even after I told you not to enforce such policies because you are a president and not a dictator.
I do not see how it is a dictatorial law as it doesn't make the protest illegal, only for officers who are on-duty and use uniform. You take off the uniform when you go striking as the PD, to show that you are unhappy and does not want to represent you as the president. It's very logical and more realistic. It's not a hard thing to do either, the RP would be even better like this. You just need to change your job title to Off-Duty Officer and take off your uniform. If you're protesting and striking; why use the uniform and be on-duty?
I would completely agree that I'd be a dictator if the law forbids them from protesting, but this law restricts officers only and still doesn't mean that it's illegal and will result in a demotion for officers. There are restrictions in every nation in this world, every democratic and every dictatorial.
"However, about the demoting active government personnel if they go on strike against the bar conditions you set for them, is not allowed as, in my opinion ( and I am sure in other people's opinion ) a dictatorial law. A law that you didn't get permission for." -
I demoted 2 personnel and not more. The reason for the first demotion was that he was pointing a pistol at me and at the SSA from what they said was a peaceful protest. The second demotion was on the Chief () and the reasons have been stated as well. I respect your opinion and take your opinion into consideration due to your knowledge, but I do not agree with it. I'd agree with it if protests were illegal in the name of the law, but they weren't.
Just because I put up some restrictions, which exists in every nation in this world (dictator or democratic) doesn't mean that I'm a dictator. Like I said, I respect your opinion and I'd like to see the outcome of this PR. I do not see any rule violation here but I do see that my law was a bit harsh but not in a dictatorial way.
Kindest Regards,
Kurdayeti
If you have any arguments or explanations about me being a dictator and corrupt, then bring them up. If you don't have any, rest assured. I've explained how I think my law wasn't dictatorial, but only harsh and restricts; not forbids.
"A kite needs to be tied down in order to fly. I learned how important restrictions can sometimes be in order to experience freedom."
If anyone has any questions or doubts; feel free to ask me here or PM me.
I have stated my opposition to this player report alongside and shown all evidence that is needed to back up my arguments, claims and actions. The accusers are making vast accusations with little to no proof, the only proof they have shown is a screenshot which does not support most of their accusations. [b]I'd like to request, with all respect, the HR to decide the outcome of this player report and intervene. [/b]
Thank you.
Agreeing and so on is all nice, however is there any further evidence to show context into the situation?
For example, for the demotion of Luvbunny, it's stated that you tazed the president, which you did.
Anyone else that was demoted that provided a reason that was not aligning with what Wesley stated?