Limelight Forums

Or we can avoid all the hassle and just post evidence if we wanna make a case against a player...

(Jan 14, 2018, 05:31 PM)Gungranny Wrote: [ -> ]Or we can avoid all the hassle and just post evidence if we wanna make a case against a player...

Which is, as seen by some courthouse cases, easier said then done.

Such is life.

As it was stated before in this, it bears repeating:

Logs only provide reinforcement to a claim in a case, it does not provide the claim itself as it lacks crucial context on what occurred to lead up to that point.

Only cases of ooc insults, or large amounts of invalid kills and other such things can be spotted by logs alone, as when Bob kills 3 people, dies does not wait for the NLR, gets a gun, kills 2 more people, dies repeat etc. Its quite easy to know exactly what they are doing

'Such is life' is said by people who are not willing to change it

I agree with you that logs only provide a fraction of some rulesbreaks but it helps an accuser put together a case which would be hopeless without said logs. Its perfect to see if people are metagaming, powergaming, abusing their job, self supplying etc.

In the end this can be a big aid for the administrative team. People will be less inclined to commit rulebreakages that are normally hard to spot. For example powergaming by switching jobnames to, for example 'Criminal', and kill someone 10 seconds later only to switch back to citizen.

(Jan 14, 2018, 12:20 PM)Quest Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 14, 2018, 11:57 AM)Barkles Wrote: [ -> ]Additionally we have between 10,000 and 50,000 logs a day so if we aren't given a time or day yeah, it can take a looooonnng time

What I don't under stand though, if this is browser based, why can't a staff memeber just press F3 and search for E.G Quest killed Barkles with Shotgun. Why couldn't this happen?

it doesn't work like that.

Logs can confirm a kill, but it won't provide any context behind it.

Additionally, a lot of things can lead up to a kill which might not be obvious. For example, voice radio calls or things said over a private voice radio frequency. How are we to know?

Presenting as much evidence as you can possibly provide gives you a stronger chance of having a successful outcome in the courthouse. We can't issue punishments without having more than appropriate evidence to back up the claims being made.

what if the logs recorded voice chat as well so then we can have better context in case if there was voice chat being used

that will never happen

(Jan 14, 2018, 08:35 PM)Nightmare Wrote: [ -> ]Logs can confirm a kill, but it won't provide any context behind it.

Additionally, a lot of things can lead up to a kill which might not be obvious. For example, voice radio calls or things said over a private voice radio frequency. How are we to know?

Presenting as much evidence as you can possibly provide gives you a stronger chance of having a successful outcome in the courthouse. We can't issue punishments without having more than appropriate evidence to back up the claims being made.

So would there be a way to put the logs onto some sort of web based format and have it numbered for each day.

E.g

3434: Jerry Marlowe: Fuck you cunt
3435: Bob Dylan: What the fuck was that for?
3436: User shoots Quest with weapon

(Jan 14, 2018, 09:10 PM)Quest Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 14, 2018, 08:35 PM)Nightmare Wrote: [ -> ]Logs can confirm a kill, but it won't provide any context behind it.

Additionally, a lot of things can lead up to a kill which might not be obvious. For example, voice radio calls or things said over a private voice radio frequency. How are we to know?

Presenting as much evidence as you can possibly provide gives you a stronger chance of having a successful outcome in the courthouse. We can't issue punishments without having more than appropriate evidence to back up the claims being made.

So would there be a way to put the logs onto some sort of web based format and have it numbered for each day.

E.g

3434: Jerry Marlowe: Fuck you cunt
3435: Bob Dylan: What the fuck was that for?
3436: User shoots Quest with weapon

Gives people 0 privacy, what if I plan an attack on a clan? (e.g in five days) I shouldn't be forced to use voice chat or another communication program.

(Jan 14, 2018, 07:24 PM)Baskingner Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 14, 2018, 05:31 PM)Gungranny Wrote: [ -> ]Or we can avoid all the hassle and just post evidence if we wanna make a case against a player...

Which is, as seen by some courthouse cases, easier said then done.

Then don’t post a PR. Simple as that.

If you want to call out a rule breaker, you NEED to give evidence as it’s vital to the case. If you don’t have evidence, you’re shit outta luck and can’t post one.

And it honestly isn’t hard. The only reason it’s hard for some cases is because it usually involves a player positing a PR for the smallest accident or rule breakage. Most of them aren’t really trying to cause a problem. The person in question just needs to be taught what the rule is. 

So, instead of seeing a small rule breakage and immediately turning on screencap, try helping the player understand why they shouldn’t do that or just handle it IC.

(Jan 14, 2018, 09:25 PM)PaulB Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 14, 2018, 09:10 PM)Quest Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jan 14, 2018, 08:35 PM)Nightmare Wrote: [ -> ]Logs can confirm a kill, but it won't provide any context behind it.

Additionally, a lot of things can lead up to a kill which might not be obvious. For example, voice radio calls or things said over a private voice radio frequency. How are we to know?

Presenting as much evidence as you can possibly provide gives you a stronger chance of having a successful outcome in the courthouse. We can't issue punishments without having more than appropriate evidence to back up the claims being made.

So would there be a way to put the logs onto some sort of web based format and have it numbered for each day.

E.g

3434: Jerry Marlowe: Fuck you cunt
3435: Bob Dylan: What the fuck was that for?
3436: User shoots Quest with weapon

Gives people 0 privacy, what if I plan an attack on a clan? (e.g in five days) I shouldn't be forced to use voice chat or another communication program.

No as in make it an admin only tool 
**Facepalm** 
Should have put that

It's a mixed bag. In one hand, half the cases cannot be solved without context that the logs sometimes lack. (voice comms, ect)

In the other hand, it's pretty easy to use the logs to reflect other situations that are cut and dry, such as being run over by a car.


The story of "Logs are hard to sift through, days worth of logs, ect" is all a fantasy. I used to sift logs elsewhere, without any color coding/ect. All it really is, is copy/paste/search text for keyword (steamid's) and you have all the relevant info involved in most cases.

I've seen logs that Temar had a hand in setting up. They were more than awesome in terms of the ability to filter. That was years ago, I'm sure by now they practically search themselves. Willing to give classes on log searching and log based judgement calls if you need.

Times have changed from that Jokhah, and now we as staff members need to go through quite a lot of logs to find out what's needed. In the event where a situation spans across 3+, it's incredibly difficult to find what we need.

So think about it like this, the prosecutor goes to the court with a case ready. The judge does not research the case himself. Think of the amount of time it would take for a staff member to go through an incident that takes 5 minutes which a staff member just reading a summary of what happened without a video or anything. By asking staff to go through 5 minutes of logs, you are asking them to shift through a lot of entries, if you are to say but not everything is connected, how can the staff member make sure of that without evidence? He HAS to go through everything till and after whats reported has happened.