Limelight Forums

(Feb 4, 2017, 08:00 AM)Soviethooves Wrote: [ -> ]I'd just like to add, you can arrest government officials IC. Especially if there is a staff member online who can see you have RP'ed the detainment properly and have a VERY good reason, you can even carry through an actual demotion and arrest if the player isn't compliant and doesn't demote himself for the RP. Except in this case, it was a custom job title vs actual game mode police where you can just be arrested with /warrant.

Our blacklist reason was for holding SWAT at gunpoint while RPing as police officers. While we could've done it without guns drawn, seeing as they were armed it was the appropriate response.

I don't know if this happened, but did any of you attempt to contact the officer or his officers about the current investigation? If you want to think realistically in our IG world, the IG police department has full jurisdiction and you have what I would assume is outside the city, so you can say it's within their control. Why not contact the officers to demote their own officer or ask the officer to turn himself in instead of detaining him at gunpoint while officers arrive to find out why two law enforcement members (Who may or may not be valid in their eyes) are "hostaging" their superior?

Police Sergeant was present the entire time during the sting, as was most all of the police force, so it was safe to assume all were sided with them. I specified our jurisdiction mostly because our station was about a hundred yards away and I would assume county police would have original jurisdiction outside of the city. Following their ridiculous actions I attempted to meet with the president to demand their demotion for their gross negligence and was met with silence and he eventually left. So I coordinated with the new president to arrest them for their actions. I don't follow if you're asking why we were "hostaging" them during the sting or during their arrest. During their sting I was too busy being shot to contact their supervisor and during their arrest it was just the two SWAT who led the raid and Armard.

EDIT: For clarification, Armard asked if it was "stupid" to be able to arrest a SWAT Member. Something along those lines.
I figured Armard wouldn't be entirely truthful, however I'm still under the assumption that Toxic used this to imply we were not working with him and that Armard was asking for a rules clarification like I did with you regarding fines (though that was via pm.)

Also I would like to add that following the counter-sting of our sting op, the police force had the audacity to start doing their own sting ops. That has nothing to do with the UBR I just wanted to share.

(Feb 4, 2017, 02:31 PM)Stomm Wrote: [ -> ]Hello, I was the SWAT Sergeant at the time, and was present for both the raid of the illegal weapons sale, where I gunned down one highly armed and masked individual who was holding a uniformed Officer at gunpoint. I was also present for the attempted murder of the SWAT Team on the Presidential floor of the Nexus, where I also took down a highly armed and masked individual who was attempting to gun down the SWAT Team. At that scene my team also took out another armed and masked individual, and we almost lost a highly trained and respected member during the firefight.

Just pointing out that I was not "highly armed" as you described, I was using my sidearm.

SWAT was called in to assist on a raid of an individual suspected of sale of illegal weaponry. At the time, my team, which consisted of Myself and Auston Murry were on exercises at the lake. When the call went out we packed up and immediately headed towards industrial. We arrived about 30 seconds after the Officers had begun their raid, and immediately spotted a masked individual with an Officer disarmed and held at gunpoint with his hands in the air. The individual was ordering the Officer around. Auston and I took positions around the gunman where there was no chance of any good guy being caught in the crossfire, and ordered the masked gunman to stand down. He refused, and then turned to aim his gun at me. In self defense, I fired a single shot from my shotgun (point-blank, center-of-mass), which took down the gunman.

In my defense here I had no idea you were behind me, nor did I fire a round or really even look directly at you. So you ran up on someone holding an officer, at what you believed, hostage? Does SWAT training only cover escalating to firefights or did you skip over hostage training? Also seeing as I had to turn completely around for you to shoot me I would assume the officer I was detaining was directly behind me as you fired a weapon with spread in his direction.

At this point, another armed man in a mask runs over, claiming he was a cop and ordering us to drop our weapons. We ordered him to drop his weapons and put his hands up, and he initially refused. However, when he realized that he had a snowball's chance in hell, he put away his weapon, but still refused to put his hands up, at which point he was tased and cuffed. When he was brought back to his feet, he directed us to his ID and a badge ($60, plus shipping and handling) as "proof" of his identity. His Government Pass was issued by a long retired President, and the current President, who had taken the Oath of Office while we were conducting our raid, confirmed that it was by no means valid, and ordered the weapon dealer/fake cop arrested.

The president hadn't "taken the Oath of Office" while you were conducting the raid, he became president when you were warranting Memeimrich for an attempted murder that never happened. We were shutting everything down due to lack of responses and presidents when you all decided to bust a sting operation for some reason.

Later on, following yet another administration change, and the release of a known weapon dealer and police impersonator, the SWAT Team gets called to the President's Office.

Known weapon dealer? Pretty sure your only charges on him were impersonating SWAT and assisted attempted murder (or something along those lines.) Also the real "arms dealer" in this situation went on to be with you on the SWAT team on the president

At this point the team had grown to 4 members, one of whom was trying to fit into a uniform 2 sizes too small, and never joined us for the following events. The 3 of us enter the President's Office, where he informs us that an FBI agent will be operating in this city, and tells us that we are to treat him like any other government member. He then goes on to say that the Agent will be wearing a gasmask and when he interacts with us he will identify himself as FBI. This concluded our meeting, and we left the President's Office to take the elevator down when we encounter 2 men in gasmasks, one of whom was holding a shotgun.

So you were told that I'd be wearing a gas mask and the second you see two individuals in gas masks outside of the president's office you assume they were just other people wearing gas masks? Also, you did not encounter 2 men in gas masks, you encountered one, as you were told you would, and then I arrived to your location a few seconds later.

We immediately surround these 2, and demand identification, at which point the man with the shotgun raises it and declares that he was Sheriff Ricky Hicks, who knew quite well as an arms dealer and police impersonator, and that we were "under arrest".

I cannot claim that I identified myself at this point in the story as this could have been in the moments before I arrived. However, when we were all positioned at the door to the president's office we identified ourselves numerous times once again. So if at this point in your story is the same as mine then that is just omitting information to justify your point.

My Team and I all react, raising our weapons on him and his unidentified friend. At this point I advise the President on Hicks's previous arrests, to which the President responds by giving nodding multiple times and giving a thumbs up.

No. He wagged his finger at you in what is universally accepted as a "nuh uh" motion. 

Turning my attention back to the armed criminal, we order him to put his weapon down. He refused multiple times, continuing to assert that I was under arrest. At this point its clear that he is only going to let this end one way, we give him an ultimatum. We began counting down the time until his chance expired, when the other masked man decides to pull a revolver and open fire.

I ordered my subordinate to open fire before I opened fire, seeing as you were counting down to shoot to identified law enforcement agents.

Auston takes some hits and goes down, and the unknown man with a revolver gets taken out and dies,

We both identified who I was.

while Hicks runs off into another room , unknown to me. At this point I realize that the President has gone down, and call EMS.

It was at this point that you claimed that we "killed the president" when you knew that he accidentally pressed his eat boot bind. I can come to this conclusion because it happened before the firefight even began. I'm fairly certain this fits the definition of powergaming.

Then the other member of SWAT advises me that Hicks has run into one of 2 rooms. We clear the first room, and then blow the door off the second. I enter, and see Hicks in the corner waiting to ambush me. He opens fire, missing every single shot,

Just pointing out, he claims he hit you around 4 times, so I assume the server was on your side that night.

and gets taken down by me. EMS arrives, and is able to save Auston, but is too late to save either gunman or the President.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
OOC Comments:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The initial raid happened between Presidents. For a while before that whole raid went down you had made no attempt to communicate or coordinate ANYTHING with what you now claim was your neighboring agency.

We didn't call to tell you we were doing a sting op because why would we? Did you honestly think that someone selling a "full-auto original ak101" for $450 was a legit sale? You interfered with our RP for the sole purpose of being aggressive and arresting us. Maybe not you yourself but whoever called in the raid.

Instead you decide that the best course of action to take when most of the Police and all of the SWAT Team is raiding your so called "sting operation" is to start taking Officers hostage, and only identify yourself as "Law Enforcement" AFTER people have died.

Blatant lie. The first thing we did when we arrived to the building was identify ourselves numerous times. Only was it after we identified ourselves did you kill someone. Also, you say "people" died, implying that we open fired on you and that I wasn't the only one who died due to a trigger-happy SWAT orienting himself in a way that would put the "hostage" in immediate danger.

And then there is the fact that since there was no President until we had you in custody, which made your whole operation unofficial.

The operation ceased to be when the president changed. However, seeing as we were already in the middle of a raid by the police force we weren't going to just stop and allow our guy on the inside be arrested for ridiculous reasons. If I was arresting someone who just killed 2 cops would I just let him go because the president changed? No. I would continue his arrest and then cease operations. The police force took the changing president as an opportunity to disrupt legitimate RP, and then, I assume, placed a new president in his place solely so Memeimrich would get a 15 minute sentence for a frivolous charge and would then ignore every request for a meeting to discuss the criminal wrongdoing the police force and SWAT had conducted until he could stop being president.

Then comes the Presidential Floor incident- First, the President made absolutely no mention of an investigation into us or anything similar. He just said the meeting was over and turned us loose, at which point we meet 2 masked men (one of who did not have a pass until about a minute later) and at no point did the only person authorized by the President to be FBI identify himself, as we were told he would. Instead, you just start claiming we were under arrest, and since we were familiar with you as a convicted criminal, and already had our guns out, was NOT going to happen.

Alright this one's going to be fun. He made no mention of an investigation but mentioned you'd be meeting someone who was FBI? Investigation is in the name. I identified myself as Senior Special Agent Cleatus or Jones (I can't remember which name I used) and Memeimrich also identified me. So because you already had your guns out you decided to kill us? Also I was not the convicted criminal, that'd be Memeimrich who is not here right now.



Please don't state incorrect facts in this court house and admit if your memory is fuzzy before you start saying complete lies.

EDIT: Grammar.

(Feb 4, 2017, 07:10 AM)monk Wrote: [ -> ]Why should you be unblacklisted?: 
Note: I had to leave directly after the incident and before my blacklist was administered, as a result most of the info I've received is from Memeimrich who was my 'partner in crime' and was also subject to this blacklist. So I apologize if anything I say was never said as justification of this blacklist by Toxic + Friends. If that makes any sense.

To start off allow me to give context to the situation. Me and Memeimrich had formed the Powhite Sheriff's Department with the president's permission and immediately began patrolling and detaining criminals. Shortly after we hired another deputy (who was involved in the final moments leading up to our blacklist on the opposing force) and by then we had detained two criminals. From there our deputy left us to join the police force and we decided to conduct a sting operation and bust someone for purchasing an illegal machine gun that did not meet ATF and 922® noncompliance. By then the president had changed I believe once, however we were still clearly being recognized as a legitimate organization since we were still being issued government passes. So we hired someone RPing as an undocumented worker to put out the ad selling the illegal firearm. After around 10 minutes of no responses we were going to shut it down and drive the guy back to the city. It was at this point I believe the current president had switched off and Faustin pm'd our guy as I was getting ready to pm him that we were coming to get him. Seeing that he was the police sergeant we decided that it would be interesting nabbing a 'city-slicker' cop for breaking the law. Then we saw essentially the entire police force rolling up to ruin our operation. So we moved in and began to attempt to stop them from ruining our operation.

Well your "Deputy" was in fact my partner at the time and a lead role in the raid, and also no laws in game were set stating the purchase of firearms was illegal, hence your sting operating would be pointless

I myself discussed the purchase of these weapons as part of an actual sting operation in order to bring the dealers to justice, and such was done so.

If by "attempt to stop them" you mean wave fully automatic firearms in SWAT officers faces which resulted in on of your colleagues near-death, then sure.

We announced our government affiliation and ordered them to stand down and lower their weapons seeing as they were in our jurisdiction next to our police station. Instead I received a mouthful of buckshot from a SWAT officer that I had no idea was behind me when I turned away from the SWAT officer aiming a rifle at me. More importantly on this aspect, I had a 'hostage' (as they called it, in reality they were being detained) at gunpoint and was standing directly behind me as I was being shot, meaning the SWAT officer who gunned me down (Auston, I believe) fired a weapon with spread in the direction of another officer, endangering his life. But this isn't exactly a blacklist request now is it. Following this, they slapped Memeimrich with 15 minutes for a ridiculous 'accessory to murder' charge, despite no attempted murder occurring since we were RPing as police officers and as such wouldn't just shoot someone who hadn't shot at us or presented themselves in a manner suggesting they would.

And how do you detain a SWAT Officer exactly? Especially one that is armed?

I was the one who issued the warrant of Memeimrich and I can confirm, as can Auston and Stomm that you did infact threaten SWAT Officers with a weapon that at any point could've killed either one of them. Due to Memeimrich's affiliations with yourself it was only fair that you were both charged.

-Paragraph cut due to me not being present at the scene-

Now, with that out of the way I can argue why we were not in the wrong in these situations.
Regarding the sting:
We did nothing wrong because we were within our jurisdiction and currently being recognized by the government (I actually had two officers approach me while I watched the spot from a nearby building and they walked off after I identified myself and the operation in place.) Everything that occurred at the site of the sting op was a result of whoever ordered the 'counter sting' (which in it of itself is ridiculous. Why would you raid what is clearly a sting op with your own reverse sting op?) decided they wanted to ruin our RP with their aggressive 'shoot first, ask questions later'-style police 'RP'.

There was no President or Vice President during the time of raid, meaning that I, the police Sergeant at the time, was the highest ranking government official. This means I ordered the raid and I did not recognised your organization as a government force, neither did any of the other SWAT/Police Officers, I believe.

Why would you run a sting op with no President in place to authorise it? Oh and as for the "shoot first ask questions later" aheeheeheee, welcome to America.

When Memeimrich presented his government workers pass which was valid during the sting but not during our arrest seeing as when they raided the sting, forcing us to act, the president was no longer in his position, Either Auston or Stomm decided that our passes were no longer valid (which from our perspective could easily be interpreted as powergaming. "Oh you have a badge? Too bad it's invalid now you're under arrest.") and decided to ask the president who had just become president as they were making up the charges for a warrant for his arrest. I will not argue on the validity of his warrant seeing as there's no such thing as random arrest.

In my eyes, and the government force's eyes, his ID expired as soon as the President left office, hence why we raided.

It was neither Auston or Stomm that decided your ID's to be invalid, it was actually me that can be provided by logs when I PM'd Auston.

-Cut Paragraphs due to myself not being present-

1. Seeing as I was a federal agent and working with the president, the Nexus was absolutely within my jurisdiction.
You were not working with the President, else you would not have been arrested originally.
2. If we shouldn't have arrested them at gunpoint then should they not have arrested us at gunpoint either? What kind of reasoning is that? Should we have just walked out and pointed our fingers at them saying "yeah pal, you're going away for a loooooong time."? They were armed so we escalated to being armed as well, had they not had their weapons drawn during a meeting with the president it never would've been at gunpoint.
3. Detain =/= Hostaging. We were arresting them, not taking them hostage. This is simply fluff to further try to prove that we were in the wrong.
And you can arrest a SWAT Team, why? Because you have expired IDs?
4. We did coordinate with the president. There is no way to deny that. According to Memeimrich, the president informed them that we'd be there and we were communicating with him for most of it.
5. The president changed more or less when they raided us with no indication that we were no longer valid and were to be treated as criminals as far as I am aware. We still had passes, and we were in the middle of a major operation which had begun under a president that recognized us.
The President left about 5 minutes before the raid as said President would not let us raid. However once he left I gave the go-ahead.
6. Oh, should we have requisitioned some SWAT gear? Should we have used our stolen SWAT outfit? I apologize that the gas mask is the best alternative when attempting to roleplay as 'civilian' (despite us not actually being civilians) SWAT officers when you're not a member of a clan that has SWAT style outfits. The president informed them that we'd be there and that we'd be in gas masks. As for the sting op seeing as we were acting as SWAT it's what we would've worn. I don't see SWAT raiding places in their street clothes, do you?
First you're powhite county sheriff, then your FBI, then your SWAT...

Now, for the rest of this I have zero evidence of my own besides what Memeimrich has told me of his conversation between himself and the president at the time, Armard.
According to Toxic, Armard reported us in an @ that he had no clue we were there and that we were detaining two officers at gunpoint. Or something along those lines, Memeimrich could not recall the exact message and I currently have no contact with Armard. However, Armard informed us that he never placed this @ call and when he and Memeimrich asked Soviethooves what Armard said, his response was "Staff eyes only." He refused to show even Armard, whom they claimed sent it. Unless Armard is dicking us over, this is a huge piece of evidence towards our innocence. If Toxic lied about the @ report, all that proves is that clearly we were in the right and he attempted to lie to show we weren't. However I have no evidence of that besides Armard stating that he never filed that @ report. So if a staff member would like to share his @ report with us and him so that he can likely read it for the first time that'd be great.

To sum up my essay, our RP was disrupted by the SWAT and their goons and then after we justifiably began the process of detaining them with cooperation from the president we were instead shut down by shotguns and blacklists.

President was gone, so was your "jurisdiction"

Evidence:

This is a very hard situation to provide evidence for. This is very much a time where no side could provide any evidence besides their justification for their actions. Unfortunately, I was on the side against the Moderator and Teacher so the only evidence either side could realistically propose would be their word and our word. However, I can ask Armard for his statement stating that we were cooperating and that he never filed the purported @ report. If that @ report is found to be completely imaginary then I'm sure the same could be said about the charges brought upon myself and Memeimrich.

Sorry for the long read.

EDIT: Spelling.
EDIT #2: Added 922® compliance as the reason for the sting operation.

(Feb 4, 2017, 06:27 PM)Faustin Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb 4, 2017, 07:10 AM)monk Wrote: [ -> ]Why should you be unblacklisted?: 
Note: I had to leave directly after the incident and before my blacklist was administered, as a result most of the info I've received is from Memeimrich who was my 'partner in crime' and was also subject to this blacklist. So I apologize if anything I say was never said as justification of this blacklist by Toxic + Friends. If that makes any sense.

To start off allow me to give context to the situation. Me and Memeimrich had formed the Powhite Sheriff's Department with the president's permission and immediately began patrolling and detaining criminals. Shortly after we hired another deputy (who was involved in the final moments leading up to our blacklist on the opposing force) and by then we had detained two criminals. From there our deputy left us to join the police force and we decided to conduct a sting operation and bust someone for purchasing an illegal machine gun that did not meet ATF and 922® noncompliance. By then the president had changed I believe once, however we were still clearly being recognized as a legitimate organization since we were still being issued government passes. So we hired someone RPing as an undocumented worker to put out the ad selling the illegal firearm. After around 10 minutes of no responses we were going to shut it down and drive the guy back to the city. It was at this point I believe the current president had switched off and Faustin pm'd our guy as I was getting ready to pm him that we were coming to get him. Seeing that he was the police sergeant we decided that it would be interesting nabbing a 'city-slicker' cop for breaking the law. Then we saw essentially the entire police force rolling up to ruin our operation. So we moved in and began to attempt to stop them from ruining our operation.

Well your "Deputy" was in fact my partner at the time and a lead role in the raid, and also no laws in game were set stating the purchase of firearms was illegal, hence your sting operating would be pointless

I myself discussed the purchase of these weapons as part of an actual sting operation in order to bring the dealers to justice, and such was done so.

If by "attempt to stop them" you mean wave fully automatic firearms in SWAT officers faces which resulted in on of your colleagues near-death, then sure.

Yes, as I stated he changed to police officer. It was against the County Ordinance at the time the sting operation was underway, County law most always recognizes federal laws, including ATF rulings. Yes you did, in other words you decided to disrupt our RP and take the glory of the sting operation for yourself by purposefully performing a sting operation on an obvious sting operation. I'll have you know only one of us had a fully automatic firearm. And it did result in one of our deaths. Do cops themselves not wave weapons in people's faces as they're detaining them? Should we have calmly walked up so they could tase us and then arrest us both for 15 minutes on frivolous charges?

We announced our government affiliation and ordered them to stand down and lower their weapons seeing as they were in our jurisdiction next to our police station. Instead I received a mouthful of buckshot from a SWAT officer that I had no idea was behind me when I turned away from the SWAT officer aiming a rifle at me. More importantly on this aspect, I had a 'hostage' (as they called it, in reality they were being detained) at gunpoint and was standing directly behind me as I was being shot, meaning the SWAT officer who gunned me down (Auston, I believe) fired a weapon with spread in the direction of another officer, endangering his life. But this isn't exactly a blacklist request now is it. Following this, they slapped Memeimrich with 15 minutes for a ridiculous 'accessory to murder' charge, despite no attempted murder occurring since we were RPing as police officers and as such wouldn't just shoot someone who hadn't shot at us or presented themselves in a manner suggesting they would.

And how do you detain a SWAT Officer exactly? Especially one that is armed?

Typically by holding them at gunpoint and demanding their surrender. Is that to say that SWAT Officers, especially armed ones, are exempt from the law?

I was the one who issued the warrant of Memeimrich and I can confirm, as can Auston and Stomm that you did infact threaten SWAT Officers with a weapon that at any point could've killed either one of them. Due to Memeimrich's affiliations with yourself it was only fair that you were both charged.

Well you see, unlike your police force the only time we've EVER shot a criminal was when they fired first. That being said if we weren't identifying ourselves as law enforcement, which we were when the sting operation first began, and also telling them that we were going to kill them I could see them interpreting us as going to kill them. I don't disagree with you wanting to charge him, I disagree with the assistant to attempted murder seeing as there was never attempted murder. At most it could be considered assault with a deadly weapon, not even assault and battery, since we never attempted to murder anyone.

-Paragraph cut due to me not being present at the scene-

Now, with that out of the way I can argue why we were not in the wrong in these situations.
Regarding the sting:
We did nothing wrong because we were within our jurisdiction and currently being recognized by the government (I actually had two officers approach me while I watched the spot from a nearby building and they walked off after I identified myself and the operation in place.) Everything that occurred at the site of the sting op was a result of whoever ordered the 'counter sting' (which in it of itself is ridiculous. Why would you raid what is clearly a sting op with your own reverse sting op?) decided they wanted to ruin our RP with their aggressive 'shoot first, ask questions later'-style police 'RP'.

There was no President or Vice President during the time of raid, meaning that I, the police Sergeant at the time, was the highest ranking government official. This means I ordered the raid and I did not recognised your organization as a government force, neither did any of the other SWAT/Police Officers, I believe.

Yes and at the time of the raid the sting operation was about to be shut down for that exact reason and because nobody was taking the bait. How would you have known it was us performing the sting? Maybe you should've called us beforehand to coordinate and make sure.

Why would you run a sting op with no President in place to authorise it? Oh and as for the "shoot first ask questions later" aheeheeheee, welcome to America.

It was authorized at the time it was being conducted up until there was no president and you decided to raid it. So in other words, you're supporting your police force killing instead of detaining? So are you implying that our RP police force was more qualified than yours?

When Memeimrich presented his government workers pass which was valid during the sting but not during our arrest seeing as when they raided the sting, forcing us to act, the president was no longer in his position, Either Auston or Stomm decided that our passes were no longer valid (which from our perspective could easily be interpreted as powergaming. "Oh you have a badge? Too bad it's invalid now you're under arrest.") and decided to ask the president who had just become president as they were making up the charges for a warrant for his arrest. I will not argue on the validity of his warrant seeing as there's no such thing as random arrest.

In my eyes, and the government force's eyes, his ID expired as soon as the President left office, hence why we raided.

So in your eyes you saw a great opportunity to disrupt our RP with your aggressive RP?

It was neither Auston or Stomm that decided your ID's to be invalid, it was actually me that can be provided by logs when I PM'd Auston.

Did one of them not say it? I'm fairly certain they did, even if they were not the original one to say it.

-Cut Paragraphs due to myself not being present-

1. Seeing as I was a federal agent and working with the president, the Nexus was absolutely within my jurisdiction.
You were not working with the President, else you would not have been arrested originally.

We were actually, hence why we were allowed up onto the presidential floor in the first place and why he told them we were there.

2. If we shouldn't have arrested them at gunpoint then should they not have arrested us at gunpoint either? What kind of reasoning is that? Should we have just walked out and pointed our fingers at them saying "yeah pal, you're going away for a loooooong time."? They were armed so we escalated to being armed as well, had they not had their weapons drawn during a meeting with the president it never would've been at gunpoint.
3. Detain =/= Hostaging. We were arresting them, not taking them hostage. This is simply fluff to further try to prove that we were in the wrong.
And you can arrest a SWAT Team, why? Because you have expired IDs?

Because their gross negligence led to the death of an LEO as well as what appeared to us as corruption and treasonous acts of sorts?

4. We did coordinate with the president. There is no way to deny that. According to Memeimrich, the president informed them that we'd be there and we were communicating with him for most of it.
5. The president changed more or less when they raided us with no indication that we were no longer valid and were to be treated as criminals as far as I am aware. We still had passes, and we were in the middle of a major operation which had begun under a president that recognized us.
The President left about 5 minutes before the raid as said President would not let us raid. However once he left I gave the go-ahead.

Dude. So you just sat there after being told you weren't allowed to raid us and waited until you could? Do you just have a hard-on for disrupting RP? And clearly if he didn't allow you to raid us we were being recognized up until the point you decided to raid us when he left.

6. Oh, should we have requisitioned some SWAT gear? Should we have used our stolen SWAT outfit? I apologize that the gas mask is the best alternative when attempting to roleplay as 'civilian' (despite us not actually being civilians) SWAT officers when you're not a member of a clan that has SWAT style outfits. The president informed them that we'd be there and that we'd be in gas masks. As for the sting op seeing as we were acting as SWAT it's what we would've worn. I don't see SWAT raiding places in their street clothes, do you?
First you're powhite county sheriff, then your FBI, then your SWAT...

No. We were the Powhite County Sheriff's Department, from there as we performed the raid we made it clear we were SWAT certified, with Powhite still being in the name. From my death, I character-swapped to Cleatus Jones who was an FBI Special Agent, while Memeimrich worked with me with his original job as "Powhite County - SWAT Certified Deputy."

Now, for the rest of this I have zero evidence of my own besides what Memeimrich has told me of his conversation between himself and the president at the time, Armard.
According to Toxic, Armard reported us in an @ that he had no clue we were there and that we were detaining two officers at gunpoint. Or something along those lines, Memeimrich could not recall the exact message and I currently have no contact with Armard. However, Armard informed us that he never placed this @ call and when he and Memeimrich asked Soviethooves what Armard said, his response was "Staff eyes only." He refused to show even Armard, whom they claimed sent it. Unless Armard is dicking us over, this is a huge piece of evidence towards our innocence. If Toxic lied about the @ report, all that proves is that clearly we were in the right and he attempted to lie to show we weren't. However I have no evidence of that besides Armard stating that he never filed that @ report. So if a staff member would like to share his @ report with us and him so that he can likely read it for the first time that'd be great.

To sum up my essay, our RP was disrupted by the SWAT and their goons and then after we justifiably began the process of detaining them with cooperation from the president we were instead shut down by shotguns and blacklists.

President was gone, so was your "jurisdiction"

As was any restriction stopping you from purposefully disrupting RP.

Evidence:

This is a very hard situation to provide evidence for. This is very much a time where no side could provide any evidence besides their justification for their actions. Unfortunately, I was on the side against the Moderator and Teacher so the only evidence either side could realistically propose would be their word and our word. However, I can ask Armard for his statement stating that we were cooperating and that he never filed the purported @ report. If that @ report is found to be completely imaginary then I'm sure the same could be said about the charges brought upon myself and Memeimrich.

Sorry for the long read.

EDIT: Spelling.
EDIT #2: Added 922® compliance as the reason for the sting operation.

See red & Bold.

(Feb 4, 2017, 07:03 PM)monk Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb 4, 2017, 06:27 PM)Faustin Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb 4, 2017, 07:10 AM)monk Wrote: [ -> ]From there our deputy left us to join the police force and we decided to conduct a sting operation and bust someone for purchasing an illegal machine gun that did not meet ATF and 922® noncompliance.  Faustin pm'd our guy as I was getting ready to pm him that we were coming to get him. Seeing that he was the police sergeant we decided that it would be interesting nabbing a 'city-slicker' cop for breaking the law. So we moved in and began to attempt to stop them from ruining our operation.

Well your "Deputy" was in fact my partner at the time and a lead role in the raid, and also no laws in game were set stating the purchase of firearms was illegal, hence your sting operating would be pointless

I myself discussed the purchase of these weapons as part of an actual sting operation in order to bring the dealers to justice, and such was done so.

If by "attempt to stop them" you mean wave fully automatic firearms in SWAT officers faces which resulted in on of your colleagues near-death, then sure.

Yes, as I stated he changed to police officer. It was against the County Ordinance at the time the sting operation was underway, County law most always recognizes federal laws, including ATF rulings. Yes you did, in other words you decided to disrupt our RP and take the glory of the sting operation for yourself by purposefully performing a sting operation on an obvious sting operation. I'll have you know only one of us had a fully automatic firearm. And it did result in one of our deaths. Do cops themselves not wave weapons in people's faces as they're detaining them? Should we have calmly walked up so they could tase us and then arrest us both for 15 minutes on frivolous charges?

I had a 'hostage' (as they called it, in reality they were being detained). Following this, they slapped Memeimrich with 15 minutes for a ridiculous 'accessory to murder' charge, despite no attempted murder occurring since we were RPing as police officers.

And how do you detain a SWAT Officer exactly? Especially one that is armed?

Typically by holding them at gunpoint and demanding their surrender. Is that to say that SWAT Officers, especially armed ones, are exempt from the law?

They did not break any laws.

I was the one who issued the warrant of Memeimrich and I can confirm, as can Auston and Stomm that you did infact threaten SWAT Officers with a weapon that at any point could've killed either one of them. Due to Memeimrich's affiliations with yourself it was only fair that you were both charged.

Well you see, unlike your police force the only time we've EVER shot a criminal was when they fired first. That being said if we weren't identifying ourselves as law enforcement, which we were when the sting operation first began, and also telling them that we were going to kill them I could see them interpreting us as going to kill them. I don't disagree with you wanting to charge him, I disagree with the assistant to attempted murder seeing as there was never attempted murder. At most it could be considered assault with a deadly weapon, not even assault and battery, since we never attempted to murder anyone.

-Paragraph cut due to me not being present at the scene-


We did nothing wrong because we were within our jurisdiction and currently being recognized by the government. Why would you raid what is clearly a sting op with your own reverse sting op?) decided they wanted to ruin our RP with their aggressive 'shoot first, ask questions later'-style police 'RP'.

There was no President or Vice President during the time of raid, meaning that I, the police Sergeant at the time, was the highest ranking government official. This means I ordered the raid and I did not recognised your organization as a government force, neither did any of the other SWAT/Police Officers, I believe.

Yes and at the time of the raid the sting operation was about to be shut down for that exact reason and because nobody was taking the bait. How would you have known it was us performing the sting? Maybe you should've called us beforehand to coordinate and make sure.

Yeah good idea, "hey, uh we're about to raid you, just checking you don't happen to be a government agency doing a sting do you?"

Why would you run a sting op with no President in place to authorise it? Oh and as for the "shoot first ask questions later" aheeheeheee, welcome to America.

It was authorized at the time it was being conducted up until there was no president and you decided to raid it. So in other words, you're supporting your police force killing instead of detaining? So are you implying that our RP police force was more qualified than yours?

I'm supporting my police killing those who wave guns in other cops faces, yes.

When Memeimrich presented his government workers pass which was valid during the sting but not during our arrest seeing as when they raided the sting. Either Auston or Stomm

In my eyes, and the government force's eyes, his ID expired as soon as the President left office, hence why we raided.

So in your eyes you saw a great opportunity to disrupt our RP with your aggressive RP?

In my eyes I saw an opportunity to bust some crooks.

It was neither Auston or Stomm that decided your ID's to be invalid, it was actually me that can be provided by logs when I PM'd Auston.

Did one of them not say it? I'm fairly certain they did, even if they were not the original one to say it.

Yes, Auston did say it, however this was after I said it.

-Cut Paragraphs due to myself not being present-

1. Seeing as I was a federal agent and working with the president, the Nexus was absolutely within my jurisdiction.
You were not working with the President, else you would not have been arrested originally.

We were actually, hence why we were allowed up onto the presidential floor in the first place and why he told them we were there.

3. Detain =/= Hostaging. We were arresting them, not taking them hostage. This is simply fluff to further try to prove that we were in the wrong.
And you can arrest a SWAT Team, why? Because you have expired IDs?

Because their gross negligence led to the death of an LEO as well as what appeared to us as corruption and treasonous acts of sorts?

5. The president changed more or less when they raided us with no indication that we were no longer valid and were to be treated as criminals as far as I am aware. We still had passes, and we were in the middle of a major operation which had begun under a president that recognized us.
The President left about 5 minutes before the raid as said President would not let us raid. However once he left I gave the go-ahead.

Dude. So you just sat there after being told you weren't allowed to raid us and waited until you could? Do you just have a hard-on for disrupting RP? And clearly if he didn't allow you to raid us we were being recognized up until the point you decided to raid us when he left.

Let me explain he did not state any reasons for us to not raid, I asked if selling guns was legal, he said yes. Hence we did not raid. However once he left there was nothing stopping us. And finally I do not have a hard-on for disrupting RP I live in the UK I have a hard-on for gun control, bit like the mayor of New York.

6. Oh, should we have requisitioned some SWAT gear? Should we have used our stolen SWAT outfit? I apologize that the gas mask is the best alternative when attempting to roleplay as 'civilian' (despite us not actually being civilians) SWAT officers when you're not a member of a clan that has SWAT style outfits. The president informed them that we'd be there and that we'd be in gas masks. As for the sting op seeing as we were acting as SWAT it's what we would've worn. I don't see SWAT raiding places in their street clothes, do you?
First you're powhite county sheriff, then your FBI, then your SWAT...

No. We were the Powhite County Sheriff's Department, from there as we performed the raid we made it clear we were SWAT certified, with Powhite still being in the name. From my death, I character-swapped to Cleatus Jones who was an FBI Special Agent, while Memeimrich worked with me with his original job as "Powhite County - SWAT Certified Deputy."

To sum up my essay, our RP was disrupted by the SWAT and their goons and then after we justifiably began the process of detaining them with cooperation from the president we were instead shut down by shotguns and blacklists.

President was gone, so was your "jurisdiction"

As was any restriction stopping you from purposefully disrupting RP.

(Feb 4, 2017, 07:19 PM)BlackDog Wrote: [ -> ]Can people please stop requoteing the massive wall of text? Its getting impossible to read and decypher all the colors