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The George Floyd Situation - Printable Version

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The George Floyd Situation - Maveric - May 28, 2020

I'm bad at explaining so I'll keep it short. In Minneapolis a police officer had a knee on a black males neck, pinning him to the ground. The man kept saying I can't breathe but the officer didnt stop. Do you think what he did was murder or homicide. Was it just, or not?


RE: The George Floyd Situation - Maveric - May 28, 2020

[Image: unknown.png]
Minniapolis allow these type of neck restraints in certain situations as shown above.

There was also a comment on the video that said this,[Image: Screenshot_20200528-021453_YouTube.jpg]
This comment is amusing at best and disgusting at worst. The officer didnt intend to kill the man, he was following training procedures. I an aware that many of you may disagree with me. I dont think that he should of kept the guy under his knee for that long, especially after he stopped moving but he was following training. This comment is obnoxious this man doesn't know the difference between murder and homicide, the officers goal wasnt to kill the man. It was to restrain him until EMS arrived. What are your thoughts on this?

RE: The George Floyd Situation - Taylor - May 28, 2020

There’s no way you can look at this and say it’s not a crime. Floyd died that day, all the officers involved should be charged with vol manslaughter at a bare minimum.

RE: The George Floyd Situation - Hungames - May 28, 2020

It's obvious the officer is in the wrong and anybody disputing it is an idiot. When the 10-second video was the only one available, it was questionable about what happened. When the new cell phone video came out that is around 10 minutes long, it became obvious that the officers are in the wrong. 

In the next few days, I expect the officer who killed him is charged with at the minimum voluntary manslaughter or at the maximum and if the DA wants to prove a point, second or third-degree murder. The other three will be charged as accomplices. Just give it a few days since corona is probably messing with the legal system. In the Ahmaud Arbery case, they were having trouble convening a grand jury because of corona.

If anyone wants to make the assumption that all cops are like this, it's not true. 99.9% of cops are great people and if you actually met them you would understand. The media depicts the bad few and the extension to that is all cops are the same. Any person with half a brain cell would realize that when a guy tells you he can barely breathe, you stop putting your entire body weight on their throat. Cops are not taught to do shit like this. These cops are just terribly stupid people.

RE: The George Floyd Situation - Catfish - May 28, 2020

Let's start this off by saying I am genuinely surprised. When it comes to use of force situations, I am usually having to argue that the amount of force used was justifiable in the given situation, while the other party is calling me a "boot licker" or a racist. However, I completely disagree with the use of force tactics in this situation, and disagree that training was the issue. 

I am going to lay out the facts here first, and then my opinion at the end.

Facts:
On Monday, May 25th, Minneapolis Police responded to a call about a suspected forgery at a local restaurant. Upon arriving, they observed George Floyd sitting on top of a blue car, and believed he was under the influence of either alcohol or narcotics based off of his behavior. (That is what the spokesman for the Minneapolis Police Department said, however after watching multiple surveillance videos, all I see is Officers contacting a blue vehicle occupied by three individuals, two of them voluntarily exit, and George Floyd slightly resists, causing them to forcefully remove him from the car before searching him, cuffing him, and sitting him down on the sidewalk.)

This part of the encounter can be viewed here: https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-dcola-009&hsimp=yhs-009&hspart=dcola&p=george+floyd+restraunt+video+camera+footage#id=2&vid=7810f86b3c461e714543dde0fb6e7881&action=click

Before we continue, I would like to state a couple misconceptions that people make regarding use of force, and your rights when detained by a police officer.

Firstly, I get a lot of comments all the time saying that a police officer cannot place you in handcuffs. According to supreme court case Muehler V Mena, it states that an Officer can place you in handcuffs so long as you are detained. This also falls under most departments "officer safety" guidelines.

Secondly, let's talk about resisting. There are six levels of resistance that you can classify a suspect under.  
  1. Psychological Intimidation – Nonverbal cues indicating a subject’s attitude, appearance, and physical readiness. (Ex: Karate stance, the finger, fist to palm, up your arm)
  2. [font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Verbal Noncompliance – Verbal responses indicting unwillingness or threats. (Ex: “Go to hell,” “I’m not going,” “I’m going to kill you.”)[/font]
  3. [font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Passive Resistance – Physical actions that do not prevent officer’s attempt to control. (Ex: Passive demonstrator sitting on the ground)[/font][/font]
  4. [font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Defensive Resistance – Physical actions that attempt to prevent officer’s control, but never attempt to harm the officer. (Ex: Pulls away from officer, walks away from officer)[/font][/font][/font]
  5. [font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Active Aggression – Physical actions of assault. (Ex: Subject punching or kicking officer)[/font][/font][/font][/font]
  6. [font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Deadly Force Assault – Deadly force encounter. (Ex: Suspect trying to stab officer with knife)[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
So, essentially just by him pulling away from an officer, he is at the fourth level of resistance, which is defensive resistance. It is evident that he reached this level of resistance, I did not visually witness a moment where he exceeded to level five or six.

After the Police talk to Floyd for a few minutes, they begin to pick him back up, and escort him to a cruiser. During this time, he actively pulled away twice, meaning he was using defensive resistance.

This is where it gets a little confusing. Both the media and the Minneapolis Police Department fail to mention the events that occurred between the initial interaction that is shown in the previous video, and whatever incident occurred that resulted in Floyd being taken to the ground. I would love to see full, unedited surveillance footage from the restaurant and review it, so if anyone has it, please let me know.

Then there is the incident everybody has already seen, Floyd on the ground, with an officers knee in his neck for roughly four minutes. Maveric has mentioned the neck restraint tactic. Here is a couple things;
  • Many departments across the United States have actually banned "neck restraints" such as the NYPD. The reason being is because while it is effective, once the person is unconscious you have seconds to release the hold before it becomes fatal. This Officer did not ever release. The suspects muscles shut down, he stopped talking, he stopped breathing, and civilians were informing the Officers multiple times of the severity of the situation.
  • Departments all across the country use the term "Necessary" when describing their use of force tactics. Necessary means that no reasonably effective alternative to the use of force appeared to exist, and the amount of force used was reasonable to effect the lawful purpose intended. The issue with this neck restraint, is that there were other reasonably effective alternatives that could be used. OC Spray, taser, baton, open hand strikes, or even close hand strikes are all reasonable, effective, and legal use of force alternatives. Also, once the suspect is unconscious, the lawful purpose for using that force has been met.
Never once did any of the Officers check for vital signs or to see if Floyd was breathing. Instead, they continued to apply the neck restraint even when the lawful purpose intended no longer existed.

Opinion:
These Officers used excessive force on a suspect that directly caused his death. The Officer applying the force should be charged with Murder in the Second Degree, and his partner should be charged with Accessory to Commit Murder.

Honestly, the death penalty comment does not seem "disgusting" to me as long as it is a legal option in that state. This officer choked someone to death while his partner watched. That is the bottom line.

RE: The George Floyd Situation - Taylor - May 28, 2020

(May 28, 2020, 06:25 AM)Catfish Wrote: Opinion:
These Officers used excessive force on a suspect that directly caused his death. The Officer applying the force should be charged with Murder in the Second Degree, and his partner should be charged with Accessory to Commit Murder.

Honestly, the death penalty comment does not seem "disgusting" to me as long as it is a legal option in that state. This officer choked someone to death while his partner watched. That is the bottom line.

Proving the officer intended to kill Floyd would be incredibly difficult, if he is charged it will most likely be voluntary manslaughter (but dont quote me on that im not a lawyer)

Also, unfortunately, Minnesota abolished the death penalty 109 years ago.

RE: The George Floyd Situation - Catfish - May 28, 2020

(May 28, 2020, 06:48 AM)Faustin Wrote:
(May 28, 2020, 06:25 AM)Catfish Wrote: Opinion:
These Officers used excessive force on a suspect that directly caused his death. The Officer applying the force should be charged with Murder in the Second Degree, and his partner should be charged with Accessory to Commit Murder.

Honestly, the death penalty comment does not seem "disgusting" to me as long as it is a legal option in that state. This officer choked someone to death while his partner watched. That is the bottom line.

Proving the officer intended to kill Floyd would be incredibly difficult, if he is charged it will most likely be voluntary manslaughter (but dont quote me on that im not a lawyer)

Also, unfortunately, Minnesota abolished the death penalty 109 years ago.
“A second situation that constitutes second-degree murder is where the perpetrator intends only to cause serious bodily harm but knows that death could result from the act.”

By being made aware he was unconscious and no longer breathing, and still continuing to cut off his oxygen, I think that could be a way to prove Murder 2. Just as well, no medical efforts were attempted by the officer which I can completely attest, you are legally required to. 

RE: The George Floyd Situation - Ben - May 28, 2020

Going to close this as though it's a civil discussion so far, it's not relevant to Limelight as per the updated Serious Discussion forum rules. If you'd like to continue this, I'd suggest posting on the News thread that's already up.