Hello.
Yes, I am bringing up the arrest/jail-case again.
I wonder if there is anything that can be improved, or is going to improved with that system. We have brought this up between my friends that are playing on this server now and then. Seems like I'm not alone about this.
I guess we all have been jailed for a law that does not exist before, and some of us might have been arrested automatically "because we know it's you" without asking for ID, checking up with their computer in the car, or even check evidence/witnessess.
Sometimes the cops won't even answer when they're arresting you.
And yes, I have brought that thing up before, but the only answer I get is "Some people shouldn't be cops, deal with it." or "Take it with the president/searg."
As per now, we can have 15 minutes without a prisonguard. I have personally not seen any prisonguards for the last months as I have been playing now and then, and the policeforce is usually full.
Another thing is that the /pm is removed while your in jail. I can see why, you shouldn't be able to PM/call people in your cell.
That's fine, but I do see an issue here. Let me put out an example:
I got arrested the other day for 15 minutes by a cop because I spit(spat?) on the ground. I was warranted for "spitting", and I was jailed.
Checking the laws, it was NO law that prohibited me from doing so, and I called the admins. The answer they gave gave me was "Take it ICly, with the pres or searg."
I understand that, and I would, but when there is no prisonguards, no cops that randomly come down to check, and the /pm is disabled, how can we then take this ICly? 15 minutes jailtime is pretty long, and the motivation to actually call an admin/pres/searg is to actually get the case sorted out and maybe get out of jail, as it was an error from the officers side.
Anyhow, I get out of jail after those 15, and I contact the pres/searg. Sometimes the pres won't answer, searg won't demote from his own team and then I've wasted 15 minutes for a law that did not exist and the cop with 4 hours is running around with the ability to do the same thing again.
It might be much hassle for nothing, but as soon as yesterday there was an old (as in veteran-ish) player who gave me everything he had in-game and left, because he sat 15 minutes for a law that did not exist and he's not coming back. Seems like he's had it with this thing, as it's not the first time.
I want to "bring this to the table" just so everyone can have a say in this, and to figure out if there is any way to improve this, or prevent this from happening.
The obvious "helpers" would be to reinstate the /pm or prisonguards, but these are removed for given reasons.
Would a higher hour-requirement solve this? A "multianswer-checkbox-test" that you would need to pass on the website, to get whitelisted in-game? A re-do of /warrant, where you can only select the reason for arrest from checkboxes "synched" with the "rules" under F1?
What do you guys think? Would a brainstorm around this be of any help?
Here we go then:
There aren't any jail guards because being a jail guard is absolutely boring , and I dare say this is not an opinion but a fact. Most prisoners go AFK straight away and for those that don't, the sentences are too short to do any sort of meaningful roleplay. There are never enough prisoners in at the same time to organize any sort of canteen or mass-shower roleplay. It also feels like people think they don't have to follow FearRP anymore once they are in prison.
People get jailed for spitting on cops because people who frequently play as the police encounter this so often that it becomes annoying, and it gets old really really fast. I for one get really annoyed by FailRP and it seems to me that 95% of the time someone spits on me as cop they have absolutely no RP reason to besides "LUL triggering cops is funny". Also you try walking up to a cop and spitting on them IRL (actually don't), you'll be detained. If they detained you and went back to the nexus with you to then question and release you, it would take about the same amount of time as a prison sentence in this gamemode.
People get arrested for 15 minutes because that is the only sentence that feels remotely punishing for crime, especially for donators.
The demotion system is very unfair, because the gamemode gives you no evidence to present. If you don't have an overwhelming amount of witnesses or a confession, you can't really demote anyone because the person complaining might be lying about it. The person in charge doesn't want to be held responsible for an unfair demotion so they don't bother.
Whitelisting for police officer is too much work and the "correct answers" will be leaked instantly.
Making the president sync the arrest reasons is good but also too much work for some, and I don't know how that would work if the president doesn't do it. (obviously it wont sync automatically because fuck coding that)
/pm doesn't solve this at all, it just makes it slightly easier to contact the pres/sergeant and figure it out. I do think PMs should be enabled but perhaps made public to the government as the phones in prison are listened to.
Also, the BS warrants are actually the president's fault because he should know his own laws and respond to warrants accordingly. If someone gave me a warrant for "spitting" I'd decline and possibly even demote the person who requested it.
tl;dr
Sentences are too short for meaningful prison guard roleplay, reasons for demotions cannot be proven most of the time, and any whitelisting system will be flawed in some way.
Thank you for the reply.
As if anyone wonders, I did not spit on the cop, it was on the street/pavement.
I haven't thought of it as the presidents fault as he should know his own rules. Is there any hour-requirement as a president, at this moment? I've gotten a few "how do i warrant" from both searg and pres, I would expect that if a player assigns themselves as pres/searg they should know how it works, or read a "pres/searg 101" to figure out how it works.
You are right about the answers to the test getting leaked, I did have that in mind, but I didn't exclude it as it was a descent suggestion in my head, hehe.
As for the coding and synching for rules, I see the issue, but I do actually think that it could be doable, as for devs if they added "one line-rules" and made those oneliners into listings/checkboxes for the /warrant. Either so with a "other" box, if the oneliner isn't detailed enough. But that is for the devs to answer, I haven't made anything in LUA before, so I don't want to state too much.
Your idea about making /pm's in jail just for government was really good, that would give us the opportunity to contact pres/searg without the misuse of contact a friend to bust them out.
And yes, I've been a jailguard aswell, without the proper RP it's better to watch the paint dry. (Ended up making verbal-fights between the prisoners, that was funny though, for a day or two.)
Thank you for your input, Overlewd.
It's been on my mind for awhile now because of the increasing amount of @ calls about alleged invalid arrests. Obviously arrests need to remain an IC situation as staff members aren't always available to respond but the real question is: how can this be dealt with? What I would personally like to see is a form of appeal system that is sent directly to the OIC (Officer In Charge). Whether that appeal becomes a notification on the OIC's HUD or perhaps it comes through rather like a "/request" call. The OIC would then be responsible for the appeal and they are to ensure it's processed and that it's investigated from both sides of the story. Better still, perhaps we could have some sort of court system considering V33X has the courtroom in the map itself. There's lots of options open to us but which one is the preferred and most efficient is the question.
Either way there is an apparent issue here and the staff will discuss viable options internally but please feel free to note down any ideas you have because we are always open to suggestions and welcome the criticism when it's constructive.
(Mar 14, 2016, 02:25 PM)Nacreas Wrote: [ -> ]Better still, perhaps we could have some sort of court system considering V33X has the courtroom in the map itself. There's lots of options open to us but which one is the preferred and most efficient is the question.
This.
If RP'd correctly I find this the most efficient way to solve false arrests. Much like the courtRP me and a bunch of other people did on Saturday
Thank you Nacreas. I'm glad to see that you see this as an issue aswell, and I agree that a courtRP would be fun to initiate in this situation.
But as Python says, if RP'd _correctly_. I think this might be an issue aswell, as I often see people as pres being AFK, don't answer/do warrants or don't know anything. We must be "sure" that the pres/searg would not waste the time and refuse to look at evidence "because". But CourtRP would be awesome, I have attended to some of them, I've enjoyed it each time so far.
A direct line of communication "/oic "blablabla" or something would also be great in my opinion, as it would atleast give us a chance to explain what happened, instead of today where it would be
- Serve your time and then tell the pres/searg that officer<name> did this and that.
- Complain OOC and hope that someone comes down to listen, which would be in the greyzone of meta?
So, what are you thinking?
As late as a couple of hours ago I had my latest incident.
I was speeding through City, no one came after me. I take on my suit, drive up to gas-station, cop with shotgun says I'm under arrest. I ask him what the fuck he is talking about, and why he would arrest me, he said speeding.
I said that I had no idea what he was talking about, and that there was alot of black chargers at that time. (Which was true, black chargers are a popular combination.)
But no, I was under arrest, because the car was mine. I asked how he would know that, as he didn't ask for any ID, and then the answer came out:
"I can see it's your car on the licenseplate!" which again, I state that he can't, as he hasn't even asked me for an ID, RP'd to check on any computer or anything.
Then I said: "OUT OF CHARACTER, I drove behind nexus and changed clothes, so you cannot say that you saw me." Then he said, "It is your car I can see it you're getting arrested."
Then I was arrested, by a player with 90 HOURS(!!!) powergaming by looking at my car. As police sergeant.
Now ofcourse we've all heard about the "All arrests are ICly," but this is just pure fucking FailRP and powergaming, and then no one can do shit about it?! I could make up a reason like "You're getting arrested because I saw you touch a woman on the right ear", and it wouldn't even be considered to getting dealt with even though it's pure minging?
And the most annoying part is that okay, we are going to take this ICly, but when pres wont respond or do shit (which is VEEEEERY often) and the searg won't do shit, then you're screwed. I tried to get him demoted, but as he was the police sergeant he wouldn't demote himself, and the president was taking fucking walks alone out in the woods, not responding ANYONE.
I'm sorry for bumping this thread, but I can't resist ragequitting when some powerleveling piece of shit arrests me for some made-up reason, and this takes away the pleasure of even thinking about doing any criminal-RP, because you'll get arrested quicker than you can press E to get out of the vehicle.
Alot of the players I am playing with are complaining at the same thing, even two admins agree that something has to be done with arrest, but it's hard to figure out how.
EDIT: Oh, and another incident after that, two policemen stood outside bank when they were looking for a guy who stepped inside the garage and ran again. I said "Well I would NEVER do something like that!" as I walked I was talking with someone in the same crowd
Ends up getting tazed, handcuffed, then the cop started walking as I asked what the fuck he was doing, then he tazed and handcuffed a friend of mine on the other side of the parkinglot, before he said "Faggots!" and just left.
This cop had 30 hours.
We both sent admin-requests, but no response whatsoever, tell me HOW is this even considered ICly, when it is M I N G I N G?
Anyhow,
Two admins shared my idea of having an practical exam to get whitelisted for the police-job. Yes, some may call it hassle, but me and those admins look at it like this: 1) A great way of RPing a police-school. 2) We'd get rid of people fucking around, and if they did, they'd have to take the exam again. The server-teachers could whitelist people, forexample.
What do you think about that?
Quote:I was speeding through City, no one came after me. I take on my suit, drive up to gas-station, cop with shotgun says I'm under arrest. I ask him what the fuck he is talking about, and why he would arrest me, he said speeding.
I said that I had no idea what he was talking about, and that there was alot of black chargers at that time. (Which was true, black chargers are a popular combination.)
But no, I was under arrest, because the car was mine. I asked how he would know that, as he didn't ask for any ID, and then the answer came out:
"I can see it's your car on the licenseplate!" which again, I state that he can't, as he hasn't even asked me for an ID, RP'd to check on any computer or anything.
Then I said: "OUT OF CHARACTER, I drove behind nexus and changed clothes, so you cannot say that you saw me." Then he said, "It is your car I can see it you're getting arrested."
Then I was arrested, by a player with 90 HOURS(!!!) powergaming by looking at my car. As police sergeant.
So you committed a crime, had your vehicle recorded and then the owner of the vehicle (you) got arrested for it? Unless your telling me that you got plastic surgery and hacked the Nexus to change all vehicle records.
I agree with your first post, but frankly, if you do a crime and get caught by a valid method (with technically it is), you ought to serve whatever time you get.
EDIT:-
If I'm reading this correctly, you also had your car with you?
As it has been said before, changing your suit doesn't change your identity to anyone else. I'll arrest someone driving a car recklessly even if I didn't see the driver, along with the passenger for his decision to go joyriding with his buddy.
Oh, I was not aware about the suit-appearance-conclusion.
Anyhow, he did not ask for any type of ID, he didn't walk to his computer to check, he didn't call anyone on the radio to check, which means he must have magic eyes to see my name written in the metal on the car. He didn't say he saw my plates when I drove past him, and I doubt he would be able when I had maximumspeed of my charger through the city, unless, well, he has magic eyes. (Powergaming)
Toxic, you would arrest them regardless if you saw them or not? So if I gave my "keys" (shared my car) with someone and they drove recklessly to me at lake, you would arrest me since my name was OOC on the car?
Obviously you wouldn't be able to change your face in a minute. Unless you change from a mask to a regular suit anyone who saw you before is therefore able to identify you.
(Apr 6, 2016, 09:56 PM)WillyVodka Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, I was not aware about the suit-appearance-conclusion.
Fair Enough
Anyhow, he did not ask for any type of ID, he didn't walk to his computer to check, he didn't call anyone on the radio to check, which means he must have magic eyes to see my name written in the metal on the car.Or they RP'd checking before charging at you? Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. He didn't say he saw my plates when I drove past him, and I doubt he would be able when I had maximumspeed of my charger through the city, unless, well, he has magic eyes. (Powergaming)
We have two radar guns that both automatically pick up numberplates
Toxic, you would arrest them regardless if you saw them or not?Yes So if I gave my "keys" (shared my car) with someone and they drove recklessly to me at lake, you would arrest me since my name was OOC on the car? No, I'd arrest you both for Reckless Driving with Joint Enterprise.
And just a reminder, in the UK, if you get a speeding ticket from a fixed speed camera, it goes to the registered address of the owner. Even if you weren't driving.
(Apr 6, 2016, 09:56 PM)WillyVodka Wrote: [ -> ]Toxic, you would arrest them regardless if you saw them or not? So if I gave my "keys" (shared my car) with someone and they drove recklessly to me at lake, you would arrest me since my name was OOC on the car?
I would take you to the nick regardless if you were driving or not. It's like hell, if you let your friend play on your PC and they get you banned on LL "pls unban wasnt meh on mi accunt" Your account your responsibility
TL;DR - Your car your reponsibility
(Apr 7, 2016, 08:02 AM)Doctor Internet Wrote: [ -> ]And just a reminder, in the UK, if you get a speeding ticket from a fixed speed camera, it goes to the registered address of the owner. Even if you weren't driving.
They do in norway aswell, which in a fixed-camera would be okay since it actually had taken a picture of the car speeding with the driver inside.
Python, let me quote you from another thread where you stated that there is a difference between a false-arrest and minging, what about the cop who tazed and cuffed me and another guy, yelled faggots and ran away? Isn't that minging? That had to be taken ICly, the definition of minging is different from person to person, we should have some fixed rules on this part.
And where it comes to "semi-serious" aswell. I asked an admin the other day this: If a policeofficer were driving and a guy who were outside of my car whispered "let's do this and that", could the cop use this for anything, even though there was a V8 turned on and maybe in speed and the guy actually whispered in his microphone?
The answer was "Yes, I would use this and arrest the man, it's only semi-serious". That is fine, I understand that, we could ofcourse suggested implementing a /window open feature if we wanted to discuss it more. And the fact that hand-held radarguns that measure speed from any distance and angle AND grabs platenumbers does note exist also falls under "semi". But isn't semi rather relative when it comes to definition? Something I would consider as very serious could be semi for someone else and they wouldn't care/do it/judge by that. The bad thing is that the word "semi" relies on every players logical sense, which vary.
I can clearly see that we have different opinions about these situations and the suggestions on how to optimize this, and that is good. What would you think about the police-exam-whitelisting-suggestion? Could that one be improved in any way? (One admin said that teachers could give out the whitelists and that the police-academy could be RPed with driving-lesson (with police-car), arrest-lesson, and an exam at the end. Practical maybe?)
We agreed that it would (could?) be a great way to actually RP, for some people to learn and get better within the police-job and decrease the 20% "real-RDA"-reports that admins get.