Limelight Forums

Your Name: Oobrie

Warning ID: 4640

Issued by: [L²] Apollo

Reason: "[font=Roboto, sans-serif]FearRP // Pulling gun whilst under tsaer/handcuffs"[/font]

Why should it be removed?: 
I believe this warning should be removed on the grounds that the rules applying in the situation were unclear, or that the rule may have been applied incorrectly. The lack of clarity with rules regarding this area.


SITUATION
On the 8th of February 2020, my character was approached by another player's (Niko) character whilst lockpicking a car. The other player's character had the SWAT job role, and instructed me to move away from the car and put my hands up, and I complied. My hands remained raised and I was tazed by the other player, likely to ease the arrest. Before the other player could begin to handcuff my character, I regained consciousness and shot the other player dead. The grounds of my warning are "Pulling gun whilst under taser/handcuffs." The below justification was presented to Apollo at the time of the incident, though Apollo explained that his interpretation of the rules is that a Taser is exempt. The reason for the delay in this appeal was finding the time / words in submitting. I have no video / photographic evidence of the situation described, and ask that you accept my account as stated.


CASE
I submit that, due to having been attacked by the Taser, FearRP ceased to apply. In relation to Rule 2.6 (EVIDENCE), I submit that the Taser is extremely similar to the Beanbag Shotgun from a functional point of view. The Beanbag Shotgun and taser share the following properties:
1. The Beanbag Shotgun and Taser are non-lethal weapons that will render a player unconscious
2. As inventory items, the Beanbag Shotgun and Taser are both listed under the 'Weapons' tab
3. The Beanbag Shotgun and Taser are weapons that can be used against a player beyond melee range
4. The Beanbag Shotgun and Taser are, for the majority of the time, accessible only by Police, SWAT or Secret Service.

It is accepted as unwritten, common sense that when a player's character comes under attack from a person holding them under FearRP, FearRP ceases to apply and the player is able to take necessary steps to defend themselves. This is the case with the Beanbag Shotgun, as according to Rule 2.6. As a similar comparison, this is the case also with the Tranquilliser Rifle.

I submit that the actions my character took ICly were reasonable to avoid arrest / further harm from the other player. I also submit that the decisions made OOCly that lead to these actions were reasonable and in line with current Limelight rules as they are written. I submit that this is not an attempt to find a loophole, rather an application of Common Sense, as stated under 'In-Game Rules':
"we expect that you use your common sense"
Finally, I submit with respect that any amendment to the rules to cover how a Taser should apply in FearRP situations should not apply in retrospect, as the submission laid above shows that due and adequate thought was taken in my reaction.

RECOMMENDATIONS

I respectfully recommend that you revise the decision to issue the permanent warning with ID 4640 on my record on the grounds stated above. I also recommend that clarification on how Tasers apply in FearRP should be written in the rules, similar to how clarification exists for the Beanbag Shotgun.

Evidence: FEAR RP > [font=Roboto, sans-serif,]2.6 - Beanbag shotgun applies FearRP like a regular lethal firearm would, in all cases[/font]

If I recall correctly, you had been tased, the officer switched to his handcuffs attempting to cuff you, though you got up and shot him? 

You where always under gun point, until the officer changes to handcuff you. 


2.2 - You must follow the orders of the person(s) who have you under FearRP, and you may not draw a weapon on them or attack them. FearRP applies to melee weapons and tasers if you are within effective range (except if in a vehicle). 

2.5 - If someone switches from a gun to handcuffs/rope to detain you, FearRP still applies. In this case, being restrained carries an implicit order not to move unless told otherwise. 

(Feb 25, 2020, 12:08 PM)Apollo Wrote: [ -> ]If I recall correctly, you had been tased, the officer switched to his handcuffs attempting to cuff you, though you got up and shot him? 

You where always under gun point, until the officer changes to handcuff you. 


2.2 - You must follow the orders of the person(s) who have you under FearRP, and you may not draw a weapon on them or attack them. FearRP applies to melee weapons and tasers if you are within effective range (except if in a vehicle). 

2.5 - If someone switches from a gun to handcuffs/rope to detain you, FearRP still applies. In this case, being restrained carries an implicit order not to move unless told otherwise. 

Hi,

I covered this in the main post. The other player attacked me with the taser and was then, assumedly, in the process of switching to handcuffs. No handcuffs were ever applied on my player’s character.

A summary of my above argument is that because the weapon was used against my character, FearRP ceased to apply.

I complied fully with the above rules until FearRP ceased to apply at the point of the other player using the weapon on my character.

Hello,

After some clarification FearRP does not cease after a taser has been deployed as their intentions isn't to kill your character.  

Quoted from (https://limelightgaming.net/forums/thread-22146.html) 

 "If someone holding you under FearRP harms you where your character would assume their intent was to kill (in simple terms, if someone who holds you under gunpoint starts shooting you, or similar situations), then FearRP is off for you, as your main option of survival is no longer compliance but Fight or Flight. Obvious warning shots do not take off FearRP and neither do obvious attempts to hurt/scare but not kill such as being hit a couple times by a baton. If you attempted to flee after assuming an intent to kill but are unable to escape and the pursuer catches up with you without killing you/shooting you and attempts to get you to freeze/similar, you assume that their original intent was not to kill you after all and you are back under FearRP."

FearRP is still active as when the taser was used, the individuals intentions was not to kill but to stop detain you.

(Feb 25, 2020, 02:52 PM)Apollo Wrote: [ -> ]Hello,

After some clarification FearRP does not cease after a taser has been deployed as their intentions isn't to kill your character.  

Quoted from (https://limelightgaming.net/forums/thread-22146.html) 

 "If someone holding you under FearRP harms you where your character would assume their intent was to kill (in simple terms, if someone who holds you under gunpoint starts shooting you, or similar situations), then FearRP is off for you, as your main option of survival is no longer compliance but Fight or Flight. Obvious warning shots do not take off FearRP and neither do obvious attempts to hurt/scare but not kill such as being hit a couple times by a baton. If you attempted to flee after assuming an intent to kill but are unable to escape and the pursuer catches up with you without killing you/shooting you and attempts to get you to freeze/similar, you assume that their original intent was not to kill you after all and you are back under FearRP."

FearRP is still active as when the taser was used, the individuals intentions was not to kill but to stop detain you.

That’s a fair precedent that justifies the warning.

I’m happy to withdraw this appeal - thank you for the clarification though

(Feb 25, 2020, 03:16 PM)Oobrie Wrote: [ -> ]

(Feb 25, 2020, 02:52 PM)Apollo Wrote: [ -> ]Hello,

After some clarification FearRP does not cease after a taser has been deployed as their intentions isn't to kill your character.  

Quoted from (https://limelightgaming.net/forums/thread-22146.html) 

 "If someone holding you under FearRP harms you where your character would assume their intent was to kill (in simple terms, if someone who holds you under gunpoint starts shooting you, or similar situations), then FearRP is off for you, as your main option of survival is no longer compliance but Fight or Flight. Obvious warning shots do not take off FearRP and neither do obvious attempts to hurt/scare but not kill such as being hit a couple times by a baton. If you attempted to flee after assuming an intent to kill but are unable to escape and the pursuer catches up with you without killing you/shooting you and attempts to get you to freeze/similar, you assume that their original intent was not to kill you after all and you are back under FearRP."

FearRP is still active as when the taser was used, the individuals intentions was not to kill but to stop detain you.

That’s a fair precedent that justifies the warning.

I’m happy to withdraw this appeal - thank you for the clarification though

No worries, thanks.

Concluded/Denied