Limelight Forums

Reported Players: [F.I] ForceGhost (STEAM_0:1:8701341)  ()
Server: TrueNorth
Time: 2019-Apr-20 15:48
Summary: I demoted Pufitee from Police officer because he wasn't following commands. So what he then did was became president so he could demote me/be above me to control me. He then when against job rules and said that Force ghost and Nemesis where above me, without promoting them, he said something like 'they're the chief's now and you listen to them' even though I was in police spot. As you can see here they then start to approach me and tell me that I cannot be unmarked because they're the chiefs. After this I demoted them so the president threatened to demote me. The president after this continued to drive around in a kamaz telling officers to go marked instead of unmarked and ordering swat what to do. Even though PD make SOP not president. President was also driving school buses and Kamazs around not taking the job seriously one bit.

Other people involved but it wont let me place there steam ID for some reason - Pufitee & Nemesis
Evidence:

Limelight - Link watcher

You're about to enter the following site: https://gyazo.com/5a06e100ec16cc6a3404ad5ca02a4bb0 Please note: You should only visit trusted sites. We are not responsible for any loss of your privacy.

https://gyazo.com/5a06e100ec16cc6a3404ad5ca02a4bb0 - Me demoting Pufitee

Limelight - Link watcher

You're about to enter the following site: https://youtu.be/zKVoQzT-mIo Please note: You should only visit trusted sites. We are not responsible for any loss of your privacy.

https://youtu.be/zKVoQzT-mIo - All other offences

Slightly confused as to what rule you think I've broken?

Well I tried to report all of you collectively but I don't know how. I reported you for the reasons stated above

Under review.

I'd also like to point out Sammy's repeated confusion of OOC Meta-concepts and IC actions and decisions. IC I was appointed by the President at a super-ceding rank to Sammy, he chooses to ignore this IC decision and use OOC mechanics to demote me, despite being told directly by The President that I was of a superior rank to him. You demoted me from "Pretending to be chief" despite this not occurring at all.  At no point did I pretend I was the Police Chief. I said that I was the Head Chief which was true, as I was appointed to the position by The President himself.

Clearly admitting it at 2:29 in the video [font=Whitney,]"The chief is the person in the chief SLOT". Also for some reason, Sammy seems to have cut out the part where he actually demoted me. [/font]

(Apr 20, 2019, 06:19 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ]I demoted Pufitee from Police officer because he wasn't following commands. So what he then did was became president so he could demote me/be above me to control me. 

Please provide evidence to back this claim as currently none of what you have shown shows this is in fact the case. 

Words and feelings are not valid forms of evidence.

(Apr 20, 2019, 06:19 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ]he then when against job rules and said that Force ghost and Nemesis where above me, without promoting them, he said something like 'they're the chief's now and you listen to them' even though I was in police spot. 

Please cite the section of job rule/rules that you feel I have violated and specifically which one or ones.

(Apr 20, 2019, 06:19 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ]As you can see here they then start to approach me and tell me that I cannot be unmarked because they're the chiefs.

The exact words they used in the video were (I'm the head chief), meaning out of all chiefs currently appointed he is the one at the top who they follow and take orders from, essentially another link in the chain of command.

You essentially at that point were a Deputy chief of police/deputy commissioner/deputy superintendent/chief deputy/undersheriff, whatever you may wish to call it, you we're no longer the chief at the top.

(Apr 20, 2019, 06:19 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ] After this I demoted them so the president threatened to demote me.

Rightfully so, you went above my head and removed people from their positions I had put them in,  whether you like it or not, I had every right to create new ranks within my own police force, you may be one of many at times in charge of how they work on a day to day, but I in the end has final say on what they do, and how they operate. 

I hold veto.

(Apr 20, 2019, 06:19 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ] Even though PD make SOP not president. 

See above

(Apr 20, 2019, 06:19 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ]President was also driving school buses and Kamazs around not taking the job seriously one bit.

Please provide further evidence to back this claim as currently none of what you have shown shows this is in fact the case other than the pink bus, that while being strange at face value, no context has been shown to actually indicate why this occurred.

Words and feelings are not valid forms of evidence.

It's been pointed out to me a specific point in the video.

Whilst you were on scene with Force, puf, he consistently mentions "with the authority given to me", you do not deny this at any given opportunity and later threaten demotion for a valid demotion. This leads me to believe you made ForceGhost higher than SammyFc. This also makes sense as Force has also made a statement saying that he was promoted ICly to supersede the chief position.

i cant find a rule that states I cant make someone a higher rank than the current police chief, even if i had demoted sammy for demoting force ghost which I did not do it. it would be an in char issue, to be dealt with in char

I’ll respond to all the statements in following paragraphs.

Pufitee, you did state that there was no evidence proving that I demoted you from your job for that exact reason. But the screenshot posted in evidence does prove my claim. For your convenience, the link: https://gyazo.com/5a06e100ec16cc6a3404ad5ca02a4bb0

If it was invalid, then you would have reported me for having an invalid reason to demote you. Might I also add that I have no reason to lie in the courthouse, as it’ll only worsen my case.

As stated in the report instructions: Keep in mind: Fabricating or tampering with evidence with intent to mislead is under zero tolerance and will result in a permanent ban. Providing false statements in the courthouse may also result in a ban or a significant forum warning.

You appointed both Nemesis and Forceghost to appear as a superior to me and therefore the entire force. In other words, you took the role from me to give it to both your friends. You could have easily demoted me from my role in an attempt to give it to either Nemesis or Force. It would have had the same effect.

However, that is not allowed on this server. This, in my eyes counts as powergaming. Because you enabled both of your friends to abuse your power I find them equally guilty of the rule breakage.

I also believe you to have been roleplaying as a dictator. After a quick research I have come across several dictionaries that prove my point.

“A dictator is a political leader who possesses absolute power.”

You held absolute power over the entire police force by appointing your own chiefs. I doubt you were granted permission to conduct such a roleplay. This is why I think you also broke rule 11.8.

Additionally, I feel you broke rule 3.3 as shown in the video. You were recklessly driving in a hot pink school bus to get to the scene immediately to stand on several vehicles. You even hopped on the roof of the vehicle, what I do not expect a president to do.

Albeit it’s allowed to drive yourself around as the president you have to do so in a manner appropriate for a president. Which clearly, you did not.

Forceghost, might I inform you that no meta-concepts were used as metagaming is taking Out-of-Character information In-Character. Which I didn’t do at any point. I was communicating in Out-of-Character. Sadly, you did not inform me to take it to another channel so I continued as you made it appear it wasn’t an issue.

I used in-game mechanics to demote you, for it was I that was in the police slot. I believe the role Pufitee gave you with invalid in both the In-Character sphere and Out-of-Character sphere. If you’re still wondering why, I’d urge you to re-read my paragraphs.

Because you so happened to ask for the rules that were broken, find all rules listed below:

3.4 - Powergaming is not allowed. E.g do not write “/me pulls out a gun and shoots his opponent right in the head” when it hasn’t actually happened in the game. Instead of “/me kicks the man in the groin” use “/me attempts to kick the man in the groin” and let the other player decide the outcome; alternatively you can use /roll to decide the outcome. Other examples of powergaming – changing jobs just to buy something from the market for yourself, abusing the /demote command to get rid of a police officer holding you at gunpoint.

3.3 - Do not do unrealistic things out of context (FailRP). Think of reasons for your actions and what you do and ask yourself if it’s realistic – e.g running around the city punching everyone as the President is FailRP. This also applies to unrealistic buildings out of context.

11.8 - You require admin permission to become a dictator as President.


Regards,


Sammy.

(Apr 25, 2019, 09:46 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ]I[font=Arial]’ll respond to all the statements in following paragraphs.[/font]
 
[font=Arial]Pufitee, you did state that there was no evidence proving that I demoted you from your job for that exact reason. But the screenshot posted in evidence does prove my claim. For your convenience, the link:

Limelight - Link watcher

You're about to enter the following site: Limelight - Link watcher You're about to enter the following site: https://gyazo.com/5a06e100ec16cc6a3404ad5ca02a4bb0 Please note: You should only visit trusted sites. We are not responsible for any loss of your privacy. https://gyazo.com/5a06e100ec16cc6a3404ad5ca02a4bb0 Please note: You should only visit trusted sites. We are not responsible for any loss of your privacy.

https://gyazo.com/5a06e100ec16cc6a3404ad5ca02a4bb0[/font]
 
[font=Arial]If it was invalid, then you would have reported me for having an invalid reason to demote you. Might I also add that I have no reason to lie in the courthouse, as it’ll only worsen my case.
[/font]
As stated in the report instructions: Keep in mind: Fabricating or tampering with evidence with intent to mislead is under zero tolerance and will result in a permanent ban. Providing false statements in the courthouse may also result in a ban or a significant forum warning.

 
My bad then, forgot that part occurred, though I do not like how you imply that it is a direct and malicious lie on my part instead of simply being a misspeak

(Apr 25, 2019, 09:46 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ][font=Arial]You appointed both Nemesis and Forceghost to appear as a superior to me and therefore the entire force. In other words, you took the role from me to give it to both your friends. You could have easily demoted me from my role in an attempt to give it to either Nemesis or Force. It would have had the same effect.[/font]
 
[font=Arial]However, that is not allowed on this server. This, in my eyes counts as powergaming. Because you enabled both of your friends to abuse your power I find them equally guilty of the rule breakage.[/font]

 
 
Could you please cite evidence to back this claim of power gaming? Simply giving another player more IC power is not power gaming.

Whether or not I wish to create a new position within the police force is entirely at my discretion as the chain of command when it comes to police matters goes:
President
Chief of police
Various underlings
If I feel a new position is needed, and said position is above your own, then so be it and should you disagree with this please file your complains regarding the matter with my secretary ICly in the future or by bringing it to me directly.

(Apr 25, 2019, 09:46 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ][font=Arial]I also believe you to have been roleplaying as a dictator. After a quick research I have come across several dictionaries that prove my point.[/font]
 
[font=Arial]“A dictator is a political leader who possesses absolute power.”[/font]
 
[font=Arial]You held absolute power over the entire police force by appointing your own chiefs. I doubt you were granted permission to conduct such a roleplay. This is why I think you also broke rule 11.8.[/font]

 
 
This is the default setting of LL's president system, there is no election system beyond an RP that players can do, but are not required to do, they have complete and absolute power over all of their underlings, and the very laws of the land with zero oversight or control beyond an uprising or a crime being committed on their part.

It deserves repeating, by default, this is not a dictatorship under LL policy as this is how ALL presidents spawn in.
 

(Apr 25, 2019, 09:46 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ][font=Arial]Additionally, I feel you broke rule 3.3 as shown in the video. You were recklessly driving in a hot pink school bus to get to the scene immediately to stand on several vehicles. You even hopped on the roof of the vehicle, what I do not expect a president to do.[/font]
 
[font=Arial]Albeit it’s allowed to drive yourself around as the president you have to do so in a manner appropriate for a president. Which clearly, you did not.[/font]

 
 
Please provide further evidence to back your claim that this action was out of context for the situation at hand and before for prior incidents and RP situations?
 
Considering the huge variety of various crummy president type RP that exist on LL this may very well be entirely within character and context.
 
You are required to back such a claim with evidence prior to this report being posted, and cannot simply request a log check due to logs themselves not showing a full story or context.
 
Note:
PR Policy #2: Evidence is a requirement, do not request log checks, include solid evidence for your report or do not post one.
 
 

(Apr 25, 2019, 09:46 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ][font=Arial]I used in-game mechanics to demote you, for it was I that was in the police slot. I believe the role Pufitee gave you with invalid in both the In-Character sphere and Out-of-Character sphere. If you’re still wondering why, I’d urge you to re-read my paragraphs.[/font]

 
Using your own logic in this situation as you have now reminded me that you we're in fact demoted after the fact:
 
(I used in game mechanics to demote you, for it was I that was in the president slot, I believe the role you had at the time was no longer suitable in an IC sense as you had clearly gone against my policies and instructions) 
 
Still not entirely seeing why this is an issue for either case, as both actions are IC, and we're handled with their associated consequences as such.
 

(Apr 25, 2019, 09:46 PM)Sammyfc Wrote: [ -> ] 
[font=Arial]Because you so happened to ask for the rules that were broken, find all rules listed below:[/font]
 
[font=Arial]3.4 - Powergaming is not allowed. E.g do not write “/me pulls out a gun and shoots his opponent right in the head” when it hasn’t actually happened in the game. Instead of “/me kicks the man in the groin” use “/me attempts to kick the man in the groin” and let the other player decide the outcome; alternatively you can use /roll to decide the outcome. Other examples of powergaming – changing jobs just to buy something from the market for yourself, abusing the /demote command to get rid of a police officer holding you at gunpoint.[/font]
 
[font=Arial]3.3 - Do not do unrealistic things out of context (FailRP). Think of reasons for your actions and what you do and ask yourself if it’s realistic – e.g running around the city punching everyone as the President is FailRP. This also applies to unrealistic buildings out of context.[/font]
 
[font=Arial]11.8 - You require admin permission to become a dictator as President.[/font]
 
 
Regards,
 
 
[font=Arial]Sammy.[/font]

3.4: Please provide evidence to back your claims as word alone is not sufficient
 
3.3: Please provide evidence to show that said actions we're out of context for the overall at hand
 
11.8: Default president starts are not a dictatorship under LL policy

I see FailRP (whilst minor, still there) and powergaming, but I don't see dictator, and neither do HR.

The evidence behind your FailRP was you driving in as President in a bright pink school bus, this isn't something that would be done under normal circumstances thus falls under this, but as mentioned above is relatively minor in comparison to the powergaming.

The evidence behind your powergaming is the following.

Quote:v1a [15:30:19] SammyFc (STEAM_0:0:204342713) said "/demote 350 Failure to follow commands. Breaking Traffic laws."
v1a [15:30:19] pufitee (STEAM_0:1:419558917) changed to team Citizen

You were demoted.

Quote:v1a [15:31:00] pufitee (STEAM_0:1:419558917) said "/advert police cheif is an corrupt mouse. gonna squish his arse"
v1a [15:31:24] pufitee (STEAM_0:1:419558917) changed to team President

You adverted how you were gonna squish his arse, and almost immediately swapped to President.

Quote:v1a [15:32:22] pufitee (STEAM_0:1:419558917) said "/radio officer raylan and office mohammed pls report to my office"
v1a [15:36:55] SammyFc (STEAM_0:0:204342713) said "/r What does he mean"
v1a [15:37:21] SammyFc (STEAM_0:0:204342713) said "/radio Mr president. Iam the chief?"

With little gap, you order ForceGhost and Nemesis' characters into your office, then oh what do you know, 5 minutes later Sammy is questioning over radio about the entire thing.

You used ForceGhost (kinda Nem too, but Force for the majority) to try and deal with an issue out of spite by going to President and forcing him into a position that's over your head. That is indeed powergaming, and is quite blatant to both me as well as other staff members.

Approved.

This doesn't matter. You still provided the means to do so, and in my opinion this is extremely blatant. You were essentially asking for this to happen when you appointed someone to be higher than the chief. They will naturally clash with each other, and I'm fairly sure you knew this from the second you made Force higher than Sammy.

I will preface this with the following, normally this wouldn't result in as drastic action being taken in this conclusion, but in my eyes and the eyes of other staff members, you have more than enough experience to know better, you have the most punishments of any player who currently isn't permanently suspended and even with all of this aside, you've got 1500+ hours now. You're expected to know this, and I was honestly surprised when you didn't immediately notice what was wrong with the report.

Staff have noticed that they've had to speak to you a lot in the past few weeks regarding behaviour and that you've been in trouble whilst on your probation, with reference to warning (ID: 4928). As a result, your probation will be enforced per discussion with other members of staff and myself.