(Jul 19, 2018, 04:55 PM)ForceGhost Wrote: [ -> ]I'd also like to point out the photos.
![[Image: C0D5C2F8BD1AFCEFB22815E39AAF83FC23BB6F0D]](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/931567283141412989/C0D5C2F8BD1AFCEFB22815E39AAF83FC23BB6F0D/)
This image you can seem we have separated the non-involved people from the involved people. We would have also hastened the Presidents involvement up, had he not disconnected a couple have minutes in. We asked no demands from the President, SSA, nor the non-involved LEO. As soon as we had carried out the execution, the other people were released.
Regardless of the President's involvement, he was the one who was raided. You raided the President to get to us. You didn't raid us, because it's not our property. If you didn't raid the President, then who did you raid? We were simply your target.
(Jul 19, 2018, 05:00 PM)ForceGhost Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 05:00 PM)Kvatch Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 04:55 PM)ForceGhost Wrote: [ -> ]I'd also like to point out the photos.
This image you can seem we have separated the non-involved people from the involved people. We would have also hastened the Presidents involvement up, had he not disconnected a couple have minutes in. We asked no demands from the President, SSA, nor the non-involved LEO. As soon as we had carried out the execution, the other people were released.
Regardless of the President's involvement, he was the one who was raided. You raided the President to get to us. You didn't raid us, because it's not our property. If you didn't raid the President, then who did you raid? We were simply your target.
Added in the edit: Also, can someone just stay on the Presidential Floor and that makes them invincible from any aggressive RP?
It doesn't make them invincible, but you can't raid without a reason, so your options were (apparently not) laid out infront of you:
- Wait until we left the Town Hall to conduct your attack
- Find a proper reason to raid the President
- Wait until the President denied any action against the Police Force, then exhaust all other possible peaceful approaches. I think you would've had a better chance at raiding the office within the rules if you'd waited for the meeting to be over and hadn't gotten your own way. At that point, it would've been more fair to say that you could've raided the office.
(Jul 19, 2018, 03:58 PM)Overlewd Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 03:29 PM)Cole_ Wrote: [ -> ]So you're essentially saying that we should've stood outside the Town Hall with guns, risking our lives and risking people seeing us and reporting it to the police, and wait about 20 minutes for them to come down? Rather than up there with about 3 witnesses (1 of which timed out; the President)?
I'd also like to give his input, if he wishes to, as he watched the entire situation happen. In which time the situation, whilst not "signed off" by him, not stopped by a member of the administrative team who had no issues with the situation in hand.
And you are saying that raiding the town hall when there are multiple cops and SS inside is not "risking your lives" by comparison?
Not as all of them were sat down at the table discussing whatever they were discussing and it was a 3v1 with the guard. I'd say that it was quite organized. But as always isn't every shootout "risking your lives" ?
(Jul 19, 2018, 05:18 PM)Kvatch Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 05:00 PM)ForceGhost Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 05:00 PM)Kvatch Wrote: [ -> ]Regardless of the President's involvement, he was the one who was raided. You raided the President to get to us. You didn't raid us, because it's not our property. If you didn't raid the President, then who did you raid? We were simply your target.
Added in the edit: Also, can someone just stay on the Presidential Floor and that makes them invincible from any aggressive RP?
It doesn't make them invincible, but you can't raid without a reason, so your options were (apparently not) laid out infront of you:
- Wait until we left the Town Hall to conduct your attack
- Find a proper reason to raid the President
- Wait until the President denied any action against the Police Force, then exhaust all other possible peaceful approaches. I think you would've had a better chance at raiding the office within the rules if you'd waited for the meeting to be over and hadn't gotten your own way. At that point, it would've been more fair to say that you could've raided the office.
If I'm a Hitman, hired to kill the head of the Secret Service for a valid reason and he's on the Presidential Floor, is that a Presidential Raid?
If I'm a doing a holdup and The President is at the bar, bar gets robbed and held up at gunpoint, is that a Presidential Raid?
If the President is at 10 Richard Drive, you break in for a burglary, is that a Presidential Raid?
If the President is in the back of a vehicle that you attempt to carjack, is that a Presidential Raid?
If the President is on a fishing trip, and I mug someone nearby, is that a Presidential Raid?
What I'm saying is that I don't believe we raided The President. No harm came to him and he was released with no benefit to ourselves. Our targets were on The Presidential Floor so we went and hit them where they were located at the time.
Kvatch Wrote:You raided the President's floor so you raided the owner of that floor: the President.
The Town Hall isn't owned by The President. It is a Government Building. That's why Government Workers have access to it even when there isn't a President in office. Just like The White House isn't owned by The President in real life, it's owned by the Federal Government.
(Jul 19, 2018, 06:02 PM)ForceGhost Wrote: [ -> ]Kvatch Wrote:You raided the President's floor so you raided the owner of that floor: the President.
The Town Hall isn't owned by The President. It is a Government Building. That's why Government Workers have access to it even when there isn't a President in office. Just like The White House isn't owned by The President in real life, it's owned by the Federal Government.
The clue's in the name. Presidential floor. It belongs to the President and that's where he works. Storming it with guns is a raid of that floor and therefore a raid of the President and his employees.
(Jul 19, 2018, 05:37 PM)ForceGhost Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 05:18 PM)Kvatch Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 05:00 PM)ForceGhost Wrote: [ -> ]Added in the edit: Also, can someone just stay on the Presidential Floor and that makes them invincible from any aggressive RP?
It doesn't make them invincible, but you can't raid without a reason, so your options were (apparently not) laid out infront of you:
- Wait until we left the Town Hall to conduct your attack
- Find a proper reason to raid the President
- Wait until the President denied any action against the Police Force, then exhaust all other possible peaceful approaches. I think you would've had a better chance at raiding the office within the rules if you'd waited for the meeting to be over and hadn't gotten your own way. At that point, it would've been more fair to say that you could've raided the office.
If I'm a Hitman, hired to kill the head of the Secret Service for a valid reason and he's on the Presidential Floor, is that a Presidential Raid?
If I'm a doing a holdup and The President is at the bar, bar gets robbed and held up at gunpoint, is that a Presidential Raid?
If the President is at 10 Richard Drive, you break in for a burglary, is that a Presidential Raid?
If the President is in the back of a vehicle that you attempt to carjack, is that a Presidential Raid?
If the President is on a fishing trip, and I mug someone nearby, is that a Presidential Raid?
What I'm saying is that I don't believe we raided The President. No harm came to him and he was released with no benefit to ourselves. Our targets were on The Presidential Floor so we went and hit them where they were located at the time.
You still
raided the President...
I don't get what your point is - regardless of him being your target or not you pointed guns at him and tied him up to kill us in revenge for arresting you
for your own actions without even
attempting any peaceful action. (Doctor Internet came to speak to us yes, but you guys raided midway through that meeting)
(Jul 19, 2018, 08:58 PM)Judge Rage Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 05:37 PM)ForceGhost Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 05:18 PM)Kvatch Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't make them invincible, but you can't raid without a reason, so your options were (apparently not) laid out infront of you:
- Wait until we left the Town Hall to conduct your attack
- Find a proper reason to raid the President
- Wait until the President denied any action against the Police Force, then exhaust all other possible peaceful approaches. I think you would've had a better chance at raiding the office within the rules if you'd waited for the meeting to be over and hadn't gotten your own way. At that point, it would've been more fair to say that you could've raided the office.
If I'm a Hitman, hired to kill the head of the Secret Service for a valid reason and he's on the Presidential Floor, is that a Presidential Raid?
If I'm a doing a holdup and The President is at the bar, bar gets robbed and held up at gunpoint, is that a Presidential Raid?
If the President is at 10 Richard Drive, you break in for a burglary, is that a Presidential Raid?
If the President is in the back of a vehicle that you attempt to carjack, is that a Presidential Raid?
If the President is on a fishing trip, and I mug someone nearby, is that a Presidential Raid?
What I'm saying is that I don't believe we raided The President. No harm came to him and he was released with no benefit to ourselves. Our targets were on The Presidential Floor so we went and hit them where they were located at the time.
You still raided the President...
I don't get what your point is - regardless of him being your target or not you pointed guns at him and tied him up to kill us in revenge for arresting you for your own actions without even attempting any peaceful action. (Doctor Internet came to speak to us yes, but you guys raided midway through that meeting)
8. Do not post reports if you know the incident has been dealt with in-game by members of staff, because you do not agree with the outcome or otherwise.
Internet said we could continue our raid ?
(Jul 19, 2018, 03:58 PM)Overlewd Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 03:29 PM)Cole_ Wrote: [ -> ]So you're essentially saying that we should've stood outside the Town Hall with guns, risking our lives and risking people seeing us and reporting it to the police, and wait about 20 minutes for them to come down? Rather than up there with about 3 witnesses (1 of which timed out; the President)?
I'd also like to give his input, if he wishes to, as he watched the entire situation happen. In which time the situation, whilst not "signed off" by him, not stopped by a member of the administrative team who had no issues with the situation in hand.
And you are saying that raiding the town hall when there are multiple cops and SS inside is not "risking your lives" by comparison?
(Jul 19, 2018, 03:59 PM)Bambo Wrote: [ -> ]You've risked raiding the presidential office, surely following them and ambushing them elsewhere or staying in your vehicles across the townhall would be a far better option without pulling the president who was dealing with it passively and was dealing with it with one of your people inside the situation and raiding his office and potentially executing people right there because you were wrongfully arrested, breaking more laws and actually breaking them knowingly will prove their points and that you were a threat.
I mean, I have to agree with Overlewd and Bambo here. I see no reason why it'd be okay, nor why it'd make sense to raid the President himself. It doesn't really matter if the President wasn't the intended target, if you raid the Government HQ and the President's office, then you're also raiding him; without a sufficient reason to do so.
(Jul 19, 2018, 10:00 PM)Enzyme Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 03:58 PM)Overlewd Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 03:29 PM)Cole_ Wrote: [ -> ]So you're essentially saying that we should've stood outside the Town Hall with guns, risking our lives and risking people seeing us and reporting it to the police, and wait about 20 minutes for them to come down? Rather than up there with about 3 witnesses (1 of which timed out; the President)?
I'd also like to give his input, if he wishes to, as he watched the entire situation happen. In which time the situation, whilst not "signed off" by him, not stopped by a member of the administrative team who had no issues with the situation in hand.
And you are saying that raiding the town hall when there are multiple cops and SS inside is not "risking your lives" by comparison?
(Jul 19, 2018, 03:59 PM)Bambo Wrote: [ -> ]You've risked raiding the presidential office, surely following them and ambushing them elsewhere or staying in your vehicles across the townhall would be a far better option without pulling the president who was dealing with it passively and was dealing with it with one of your people inside the situation and raiding his office and potentially executing people right there because you were wrongfully arrested, breaking more laws and actually breaking them knowingly will prove their points and that you were a threat.
I mean, I have to agree with Overlewd and Bambo here. I see no reason why it'd be okay, nor why it'd make sense to raid the President himself. It doesn't really matter if the President wasn't the intended target, if you raid the Government HQ and the President's office, then you're also raiding him; without a sufficient reason to do so.
I don't mean to land Doc in any shit but what does that say about his knowledge on the rules and any possibility of bias? Him knowing full well that this is going down, did he not stop to question it or tell them beforehand that what they were doing is wrong?
(Jul 19, 2018, 10:00 PM)Enzyme Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 03:58 PM)Overlewd Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 03:29 PM)Cole_ Wrote: [ -> ]So you're essentially saying that we should've stood outside the Town Hall with guns, risking our lives and risking people seeing us and reporting it to the police, and wait about 20 minutes for them to come down? Rather than up there with about 3 witnesses (1 of which timed out; the President)?
I'd also like to give his input, if he wishes to, as he watched the entire situation happen. In which time the situation, whilst not "signed off" by him, not stopped by a member of the administrative team who had no issues with the situation in hand.
And you are saying that raiding the town hall when there are multiple cops and SS inside is not "risking your lives" by comparison?
(Jul 19, 2018, 03:59 PM)Bambo Wrote: [ -> ]You've risked raiding the presidential office, surely following them and ambushing them elsewhere or staying in your vehicles across the townhall would be a far better option without pulling the president who was dealing with it passively and was dealing with it with one of your people inside the situation and raiding his office and potentially executing people right there because you were wrongfully arrested, breaking more laws and actually breaking them knowingly will prove their points and that you were a threat.
I mean, I have to agree with Overlewd and Bambo here. I see no reason why it'd be okay, nor why it'd make sense to raid the President himself. It doesn't really matter if the President wasn't the intended target, if you raid the Government HQ and the President's office, then you're also raiding him; without a sufficient reason to do so.
So does that then mean any person that is wanted if they run into the town hall then all applicable officers that chase are raiding the president ? Makes no sense.
(Jul 19, 2018, 10:50 PM)Vadar Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 10:00 PM)Enzyme Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 19, 2018, 03:58 PM)Overlewd Wrote: [ -> ]And you are saying that raiding the town hall when there are multiple cops and SS inside is not "risking your lives" by comparison?
(Jul 19, 2018, 03:59 PM)Bambo Wrote: [ -> ]You've risked raiding the presidential office, surely following them and ambushing them elsewhere or staying in your vehicles across the townhall would be a far better option without pulling the president who was dealing with it passively and was dealing with it with one of your people inside the situation and raiding his office and potentially executing people right there because you were wrongfully arrested, breaking more laws and actually breaking them knowingly will prove their points and that you were a threat.
I mean, I have to agree with Overlewd and Bambo here. I see no reason why it'd be okay, nor why it'd make sense to raid the President himself. It doesn't really matter if the President wasn't the intended target, if you raid the Government HQ and the President's office, then you're also raiding him; without a sufficient reason to do so.
So does that then mean any person that is wanted if they run into the town hall then all applicable officers that chase are raiding the president ? Makes no sense.
They're going in for a different purpose. They're not sticking the place up, hostage roping the president, putting him at gun point, hostaging roping officers, murdering 2 officers, or hostage roping the SSA. They're doing their job which is what is required of them by entering the Town Hall as Government officials who are on the President's side, not against him like in your case. Your comparison makes no sense
You say we were against the President.. we were not at all. We hostage roped him for the sake of our safety and preventing him from calling in any units, and not once did we point a gun directly in his face. We went in there for the sole intention of getting you two in a private place, which was successfully achieved.