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(Apr 28, 2018, 01:17 PM)MaxDD Wrote: [ -> ]i was not shooting i was yelling get on th ground but after riggs started shooting i was yelling at him to stop as it was lagging me the hell out but i believe riggs left after shooting everyone or swapped jobs but i stayed behind after to heal them

that is correct, you did not shoot, you did nothing wrong but we want your point of view on what others were doing, mainly riggs

Right fourms fixed.

I did not swich jobs 1 of em went pres powergamed over me (demoted me) then stole my job

(Apr 28, 2018, 03:44 PM)Gamerpro2266 Wrote: [ -> ]Why can't we hear your side of the story? Kvatch

What's the rush? I just don't wanna type it all out again and I've already explained it to Nightmare. He'll reply with the chat logs soon enough and that'll clear stuff up.

(Apr 28, 2018, 04:51 PM)Kvatch Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr 28, 2018, 03:44 PM)Gamerpro2266 Wrote: [ -> ]Why can't we hear your side of the story? Kvatch

What's the rush? I just don't wanna type it all out again and I've already explained it to Nightmare. He'll reply with the chat logs soon enough and that'll clear stuff up.

There is no rush however people would like to see your side of the story so they can reply to it.

(Apr 28, 2018, 05:46 PM)Gamerpro2266 Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr 28, 2018, 04:51 PM)Kvatch Wrote: [ -> ]
(Apr 28, 2018, 03:44 PM)Gamerpro2266 Wrote: [ -> ]Why can't we hear your side of the story? Kvatch

What's the rush? I just don't wanna type it all out again and I've already explained it to Nightmare. He'll reply with the chat logs soon enough and that'll clear stuff up.

There is no rush however people would like to see your side of the story so they can reply to it.

There will be no more replies after what Nightmare says as I'm fairly sure he has a verdict based on what I've told him and shown him footage wise. If you have any questions about it when he does post it, you can PM me on the forums.

Alright, so I've spoken with Kvatch who was the Dictator at the time (with the dictatorship being authorised by ) and had a chat with him surrounding this. See below for chat logs.

Kvatch Steam Chat (LONG)

Please note that the conversation is still ongoing and thus entirely the steam chat may not be accurate, but is accurate up to the point of where it ends above.

In discussion, it was also given to me some footage that revealed Kvatch's side to things, which raises some questions towards .

The link to said video is https://www.dropbox.com/s/hc2q1loxluy44b...59-clp.mp4 and has been downloaded for my records for further review, if needs to be and to prevent the possibility of evidence tampering further down the line. The second clip is https://plays.tv/video/5ae3a35c398b63fc4d/aa. The video won't progress past 00:26, as Kvatch crashed at that moment in time.

Riggs, I would like you to review the below transcript from 1:44 in the video onwards.

Quote:Riggs: Are they armed? Do we know if they're armed or not?
Pumpkin: Negative. They might be carrying hazmats (?) but they're not carrying rifles.
Riggs: Roger, I--
*break*

Pumpkin: Roger Charlie, I repeat, they're all in Kellco. They're all - their cars are parked in Kellco. There's 6 individuals in Kellco.
Riggs: I'm on 55 after *cannot understand* Kellco. We're all gonna station up the road, when I say move in, we're gonna move in. Okay? President, permission to shoot their arses? For safety?
Kvatch: Yeah, of course, KOS.

*irrelevant radio chatter to this situation*

Pumpkin: Be advised, they're still - they have not moved.
Riggs: Roger. Can I get every officer to the President's house...
MaxDD: Just get here, get here and you'll find us.

Riggs: I want you all to be at Kellco, the yellow warehouse - the bridge. I want you at the bridge.
Kvatch: Listen to him boys, anyone who isn't there in two minutes will be facing demotion.
Pumpkin: They're inside Kellco, I repeat, they're inside Kellco. There's about 7 individuals, unknown if they're armed, *inaudible*

*further irrelevant radio chatter*

MaxDD: Officers on me, officers on me, we're going to go and shoot down the door. Officers on me.
Riggs: SWAT WAIT, SWAT WAIT, SWAT SWAT, come back, come back, come back...

*video breaks into the second clip*

Riggs: Right, we're doing this.

The lines highlighted in red are lines that I'm concerned about, the lines highlighted in orange are key points which I'll be addressing.

It's very important that you note that Ms Pumpkin () has already identified that they aren't armed, by the sounds of the recording. This should have been taken into consideration, though I'm not too sure why it wasn't.

The next line where you ask Kvatch's permission to "shoot their arses, for safety" is also critical. Kvatch, after discussing this with him, was under the impression that because you said for safety at the end, you were going to exercise caution in this, and use this permission with restraint after identifying a hostile target. In the video provided by Gamerpro, you can see that some units, especially some units in the general direction of Oobrie when they open the door, are shooting through the warehouse door. This doesn't follow the whole "identify hostile targets" concept, and is purely shooting blind, seeing how there's nothing to indicate the people inside pose a threat, nor did the videos show any radio chatter towards indicating they had weapons (which they didn't), I'm confused as to why the people inside were shot upon.

Before you enter the warehouse, Pumpkin even identifies that it's not known whether the people inside have weapons or not. This does not justify you wallbanging the people inside unless you know that you're 100% certain everyone is a hostile, and that they don't have hostages. In this case, they weren't even hostile, again causing me major confusion as to why they were shot upon.

I've already discussed with Kvatch how this could have been avoided if he was more specific with the "Of course, KOS." line however I don't feel this is solely Kvatch at fault, considering the circumstances of what happened between the raiding party of Oobrie, Riggs, MaxDD and any other officers.

- Seeing how you seemed to have shot through the walls in this instance, I'd like your input. Not just some video which is entirely irrelevant to this case.
Please read the above transcript, as well as my notes below, and respond detailing your reply.

As @[b]Kvatch Says "KOS" so I Done What I Can Do Wich Is "KOS"[/b]

(Apr 28, 2018, 10:05 PM)Riggs Wrote: [ -> ]As @Kvatch Says "KOS" so I Done What I Can Do Wich Is "KOS"

Like nightmare already said, if knew the people in Kellco were unarmed I wouldn't have given permission for you to kill them. I expected you to not take it so literally and just kill everyone and anyone you see. You did ask "for safety" which made me think that you'd use some kind of sense when you were going in which is why you can hear me hesitate to think.

We Did NOT! Know Thay was unarmed for all we know thay was arming up in there.

(Apr 29, 2018, 11:19 AM)Riggs Wrote: [ -> ]We Did NOT! Know Thay was unarmed for all we know thay was arming up in there.

I don't know who you're trying to kid. The footage shows that an officer said as far as he's aware, they're unarmed so you didn't have much reason to shoot them all like that. I see your point though because they were in the warehouse before the lockdown so they can't say "We moved into the warehouse because of the lockdown". Gamers footage does show their jobs as freedom fighters so their intent was to raid we had no way of knowing that so it doesn't excuse you shooting at them all.

I gave the go ahead for KOS thinking you'd take some care and not shoot everyone like you did. Why would I allow the deaths of unarmed civilians?

Player report approved.

- Whilst the KOS order wasn't given in the most clearest of fashions, I'm led to believe that the KOS order was only given on the assumption of "if you're in immediate danger", hence the "for safety?" part of your question to Kvatch upon requesting KOS. I'm not sure why you'd shoot immediately, given the fact your now coming close to 2000 hours. I would have imagined you to acknowledge rule 11.7 in this instance. They were not a threat, thus shouldn't have been engaged upon. The fact that you continue despite being told what you're doing is wrong is quite worrying.

- As discussed, had you phrased your KOS order a lot better, this situation would have been avoided entirely. With KOS orders, it's important to be extremely specific otherwise situations like these arise. Seeing how I feel you could have done this much better and how sketchy the wording of the KOS order was, you will be included in the conclusion to this player report seeing how if it was given a lot clearer, there would be no issue here.

Additionally, came forwards in regards to shooting through the wall and will be included in the conclusion to this player report.

After watching closely over evidence, I'm satisfied that MaxDD did not shoot upon the suspects and was solely there to help if things went sideways which thankfully they didn't.

Player [S³][L²:RP] Riggs will be issued with a 1 week suspension as well as a 3 hour Police and Weapons blacklist for excessive misuse of lethal force by failing to identify hostile targets correctly, and shooting upon those who don't pose a threat as well as disrespect over OOC.

Player Kvatch will receive a permanent warning for an indirect violation of rule 3.1. Had the wording of your KOS order been better, then this whole thing would have been avoided.

Player Oobrie will receive a 1 hour weapons blacklist for failing to identify hostile targets and shooting upon those who don't pose a threat.

Thanks for the report.

Ricky LaFleur

Riggs

Kvatch

Woody Mac

Kvatch

Night

Riggs

Kvatch

Riggs

Kvatch

Night

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