Name of Player: [L²:RP][F.I] Wesley
SteamID: STEAM_0:0:51116464
Server: v2b
Time: (In UTC+0) 11am August 19th (would've done this a little sooner but unfortunately the file was something like 6gb and couldn't be bothered rendering at the time)
Summary: Give us context and what rules they broke.
From the video you can see Wesley made no attempt to roleplay the situation with the bus driver. Using excessive force on a vehicle that is obviously incapacitated with a spiked stripped and has another vehicle between it.
12.12b - You can shoot at fleeing vehicles only if the drivers are armed and dangerous or if they are clearly a threat to citizen/officers with the way they are driving.
12.12 - You cannot kill unarmed people or those who no longer pose a threat (injured, unconscious, handcuffed, etc).
Evidence:
Thank you for your player-report, Welker.
It will take a while for it to be reviewed by our staff-members.
Meanwhile, the accused player and witnesses may reply to this report.
please give your side of the incident
Involved, responded to the incident and present in the clip.
was using the Beanbag Shotgun. I believe it was the impact with the ground that killed the bus driver.
![[Image: JDUxgp4.png]](https://i.imgur.com/JDUxgp4.png)
Based on the way they were driving and arriving on the scene all we saw was a bus ramming a vehicle which then attempted to run me over at 0:07 we deemed the use of the non-lethal weapons we were equipped with authorised.
![[Image: uAbEMpO.png]](https://i.imgur.com/uAbEMpO.png)
I'm also not sure why you can't hear Wesley as I could hear him in game at the time repeatedly telling the bus driver to get out of the vehicle to which he was refusing to comply.
My 2c.
(Aug 22, 2017, 02:48 PM)ForceGhost Wrote: [ -> ]Involved, responded to the incident and present in the clip.
was using the Beanbag Shotgun. I believe it was the impact with the ground that killed the bus driver.
Regardless of the weapon, he decided to use lethal force on a vehicle which was not moving, is lethal force really applicable for someone who didn't comply in 8 seconds?
Based on the way they were driving and arriving on the scene all we saw was a bus ramming a vehicle which then attempted to run me over at 0:07 we deemed lethal force authorised.
The vehicle was incapacitated, it was no longer a threat.
I'm also not sure why you can't hear Wesley as I could hear him in game at the time repeatedly telling the bus driver to get out of the vehicle to which he was refusing to comply.
You can see Wesley approaching the scene at the 0:15 mark and uses lethal force at 0:23, I'm not sure how much the word "repeatedly" can apply to 8 seconds. Mind you, the vehicle was not moving.
My 2c.
As far as I'm concerned, using a non lethal weapon isn't lethal force, if he got killed from impact from the ground that's a Garrys Mod issue. You can also see Wesley attempted to cuff the body expecting him to be unconscious but he's clearly dead when the EMS arrive toward the end of the clip.
Risks are associated with using non-lethal force but if you play with fire and you get burned.
(Aug 22, 2017, 02:56 PM)ForceGhost Wrote: [ -> ]As far as I'm concerned, using a non lethal weapon isn't lethal force, if he got killed from impact from the ground that's a Garrys Mod issue. You can also see Wesley attempted to cuff the body expecting him to be unconscious but he's clearly dead when the EMS arrive toward the end of the clip.
Risks are associated with using non-lethal force but if you play with fire and you get burned.
Beanbag shotguns are
less-lethal. Not non-lethal. Even if he died from a Garry's Mod issue, he's still accountable for pulling the trigger, in which he had no bounds within the rules to do so.
Hello,
In my opinion, your video does not accurately represent the situation that was going on. I also already gave the reason in-characterly before as you can hear from the piece in the video.
I think you were out of range for VoIP to even hear those commands from me to the bus driver (to state I shot him without any attempt to roleplay it), but maybe (or officers that were near me) as they were right next to me, heard the commands I gave to the bus driver. As your video displays, you can only hear ForceGhost click on sometimes and only hear me when I come closer to where you were standing.
After I gave those commands, your video turns away and you can hear the bus accelerating. This was in response to me saying something among the lines of ''stop driving and get out of bus'' and had shot the driver out of the vehicle with the Less Lethal shotgun. It knocked him unconscious and injured as I did not want to engage into lethal force because of the ''delayed'' acceleration the bus would have. You can even hear him trying to accelerate the vehicle before I shoot him out of the bus. This was done both out of fear he was going to continue driving and possibly run over the officers dealing with the detainment of the driver of the van or run me over.
His vehicle was glitched inside another vehicle and he was still effectively trying to drive it towards me (and I believe another officer/government vehicles next to me) whilst I told him to stop and step out of the vehicle.
Because I saw the acceleration of the bus as an attempt of battery w/ a deadly weapon (being the bus) I decided to shoot a beanbag at the driver. The driver got ejected out of the vehicle in an unconscious and injured state which we then detained for aforementioned reasons (or so). Unfortunately even with the help of the paramedic on-scene, the subject succumbed to his injuries.
This does not mean that I had the intend to use lethal force (as you put it) nor did I use excessive force towards someone that posed a threat or could I have prevented the death of the individual in the way he/she was acting. Keep in mind that what you see from that position is not what I see from my position. I was standing in front of a bus that was accelerating towards me while I was giving clear orders to the driver not to.
If there's anything that remains unclear, please do allow me to reply to those as my opinion stands that the use of force given there (which was not lethal except for the injuries sustained to the suspect) was authorized. ''Stuck'' vehicles can still get unstuck and run you over and I kept that threat in mind when giving commands to the bus driver to step out of the vehicle and stop accelerating it.
Out of the situation:
After the bus driver had been detained for aforementioned reasons but suffered loss of life, and I decided to move the vehicle into the garage and have the owner of the Mercedes Sprinter van step in so it would despawn.
This effectively removed the bugged vehicle and the owner of the bus was able to step into his bus again and drive off after the arrest time was served. It was figured out that the bus was the acceleration to the ''object'' and the van was the steering to the ''object''. Meaning both the bus driver and the driver of the van willingly and knowingly accelerated, steered towards us and hit us in the first part of the video. I cannot recall if we released the driver of the van for cooperating with us and complying to the commands we gave him.
Approved.
I've talked with the drivers of both vehicles, as well as discussed with other staff due to the nature of the situation revolving around two glitched vehicles.
Wesley, we've decided after investigating thoroughly through the video uploaded and the logs that the shot was excessive as the bus only did a slight nudge which wouldn't suggest it being a threat.
Due to the excessive usage of lethal force, and your experience within the server, you will be given a 3-hour weapons blacklist.
Monsipil was found breaching NLR multiple times, he will be given a 2-hour NLR blacklist.