Limelight Forums

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Name: Soviethooves

Time/Date: 9:07 PM

Steam ID: [b]STEAM_0:1:40454676[/b]

Name of Administrator: Soviethooves

Evidence: This is what he did. He used his admin power to demote me as president. I really didn't do anything wrong, but he and some other cops decided to arrest me for saying that they are "corrupt" (didn't follow orders, didn't arrest someone who committed a crime). Now, I demoted the sergeant because he wasn't doing wat he was supposed to do. Now, Soviethooves becomes a sergeant, goes to me, and simply demotes me using his admin power and then saying "valid RP reason". Sergeants cannot demote president and therefore, Soviethooves abused his admin powers.

Involved, was the demoted sergeant.

Sourlemon and I noticed you letting people out of jail who were arrested for legit reasons. You then were demanding us to arrest someone that we didn't feel like should be arrested, as you had it out for him the whole time I was on. You then threatened us with demotion if we did not unjustly arrest the guy. You then promptly demoted me and you and the VP were cuffed for official misconduct by Sourlemon. Once Soviet arrived on scene and assessed the evidence against you, you were RPly arrested and thus had to be demoted for the RP to go through.

Don't see how this is abuse at all.

You seem to leave out a lot of crucial pieces in your arrest.

I arrived on scene as the new Police Sgt as I got a call about you being detained. When I arrived, I assessed the evidence, and even had a special warrant written to you and the VP by the other officer on scene (Sourlemon). After this was made, you were read your rights by previous officer (venom) and placed under arrest. Since this isn't possible IG atm, I had to use my admin powers to arrest you both for "Arrest due to corruption" or similar.

At no point did I just go Police Sgt. I was offered it by Venom right before he was demoted (or after I honestly don't remember). This is something he does commonly with me out of common courtesy, as he knows I do enjoy being Police Sgt. To be frank, I was watching the situation as I was waiting for Venom to RP the scenario of arresting you so I could demote you on his behalf until you decided to demote him to avoid the police from speaking against your corrupt actions.

Summary of Events:

1. I granted certain prisoners a commuted sentence and early release.
2. I, as the President, sent you an order to arrest someone under my authority and ruling.
3. Refusing to do so, I made it clear that you would be demoted for obstructing my order.

The Police Department has little say in the supposed misconduct presented by the President. You either follow the orders directed towards you, resign or face demotion for failing to do your job. Venom happened to be one to not agree with the decision made by the acting President and therefore was open to be demoted. This was justified and while he believed my asking of him to arrest an individual was unjust there was to be no discussion about it because it was simply not his responsibility to worry about the particular reasoning behind it. He wasn't a lawyer, he was a police officer. The arrest was to be In-Character and the individual could have filed a complaint and RP'ed this following his arrest, however you then took this to another level when you decided to go forth with this RP in a way that only an administrator could do.

You used your powers unfairly to force your role-play onto my character. Normal players do not have the ability to arrest/demote the President and thus neither should you. You cannot justify the function not being there as being a reason to allow you to use a /demote (administrative feature) to remove me from my position because you felt like the role-play allowed you to do so. It's simply power-gaming and as I did not agree to this role-play being forced upon my character, it is a direct violation of several different rules and noted references of abuse.

Quote:Report Instructions:

Bypassing the arrest mechanism (unless admin situation)
In this situation, you bypassed the arrest mechanism by using your admin powers to role-play an arrest even though the function did not exist. This was not an admin situation and therefore it can apply to this situation.

Quote: "Since this isn't possible IG atm, I had to use my admin powers to arrest you both for "Arrest due to corruption" or similar."

Abuse of admin powers against people, i.e. random !slay, !ignite
In this situation, you used an administrative feature to demote me which was unjustified because this was not an admin situation. There wasn't a way to demote me and you used a feature created for an admin situation to force onto my character to fit your role-play.

Quote:In-Game Rules:

2.6 Powergaming is not allowed (i.e. do not do "/me snaps the man’s neck, killing him" or similar).

Forcing a demotion on me, being that it was not agreed upon by both parties and that it was done through an administrative feature, is a clear violation of powergaming.

(Jun 1, 2017, 08:41 PM)ZooM Wrote: [ -> ]Summary of Events:

1. I granted certain prisoners a commuted sentence and early release.
2. I, as the President, sent you an order to arrest someone under my authority and ruling.
3. Refusing to do so, I made it clear that you would be demoted for obstructing my order.

The Police Department has little say in the supposed misconduct presented by the President. You either follow the orders directed towards you, resign or face demotion for failing to do your job. Venom happened to be one to not agree with the decision made by the acting President and therefore was open to be demoted. This was justified and while he believed my asking of him to arrest an individual was unjust there was to be no discussion about it because it was simply not his responsibility to worry about the particular reasoning behind it. He wasn't a lawyer, he was a police officer. The arrest was to be In-Character and the individual could have filed a complaint and RP'ed this following his arrest, however you then took this to another level when you decided to go forth with this RP in a way that only an administrator could do.

Again, you were to be arrested before I was even Sgt. You demoted Venom and the other officer held you both in custody until I arrived. He showed me the evidence, and you were arrested the same way you were to be arrested if venom or sourlemon would've asked.

Also, the government is quite small for our server, so the police are kinda like Dredds since they are really judge, jury, and if approved by the president, the executioner. Therefore, they have the ability to place you under arrest.

You used your powers unfairly to force your role-play onto my character. Normal players do not have the ability to arrest/demote the President and thus neither should you. You cannot justify the function not being there as being a reason to allow you to use a /demote (administrative feature) to remove me from my position because you felt like the role-play allowed you to do so. It's simply power-gaming and as I did not agree to this role-play being forced upon my character, it is a direct violation of several different rules and noted references of abuse.

You were already in custody under the officers before me. You had little to no control of te next steps before I was involved. If you wanted, your other options were to be held in detainment by officers, or a coup. The officers before me chose the safer approach.

Quote:Report Instructions:

Bypassing the arrest mechanism (unless admin situation)
In this situation, you bypassed the arrest mechanism by using your admin powers to role-play an arrest even though the function did not exist. This was not an admin situation and therefore it can apply to this situation.

Quote: "Since this isn't possible IG atm, I had to use my admin powers to arrest you both for "Arrest due to corruption" or similar."

The arrest system was not bypassed as there was no arrest system to be able to arrest you in the first place. What did you want the police to do with a corrupt, unfit president and VP? Leave them to continue their unjust ways? No, they're going to place you under arrest. (Well impeach first, then charges would be placed i think).

Abuse of admin powers against people, i.e. random !slay, !ignite
In this situation, you used an administrative feature to demote me which was unjustified because this was not an admin situation. There wasn't a way to demote me and you used a feature created for an admin situation to force onto my character to fit your role-play.

Again, as stated prior, I was assisting in the continued arrest of you and the VP by Sourlemon and Venom. This was not an abuse of my powers against you, but a use of my power to further the situation. Something you had little power (You were in handcuffs in custody of an officer).

Quote:In-Game Rules:

2.6 Powergaming is not allowed (i.e. do not do "/me snaps the man’s neck, killing him" or similar).

Forcing a demotion on me, being that it was not agreed upon by both parties and that it was done through an administrative feature, is a clear violation of powergaming.

You had no other choice in the saying as you were in handcuffs and under watch by officers. A similar situation that would not require your consent would be if in the same scenario I did:

* Soviethooves beats the president's knees, causing him to fall.

As you are in a state that can't retaliate against this action, you have no choice but to deal with the circumstances.

You were releasing prisoners who committed crimes that they should not have been released. You were trying to force myself and Venom to arrest a citizen who broke no laws. We attempted many times to inform you that you cannot arrest someone for something that is not against the law, you then threatened us both with demotion and did demote Venom from Police Sgt. At that point I cuffed you and the vice president and informed you why I was doing such. You then tried to bribe me with the Police Sgt position if I released you and we forgot about the incident.

At that time soviet went police sgt, and I asked him to come to the situation in character. Soviet had already been observing the situation from an admin standpoint as we asked him how we would remove you from the president slot for corruption. Every administrator I've spoken with on the subject has said that the admin has to do the demotion due to the mechanics not being in place for government officials to remove the president. Him demoting you was not an abuse of his powers as it was the only way for the RP to play out properly. The alternative would have been a bunch of demoted police officers raiding the nexus, and that isn't very good RP. This was the passive rp solution to the situation.

This seems to be most of the witnesses of the situation who have now commented on the report.

Unless the player who was to be arrested before the President and VP were arrested and the VP himself have anything to say, I think we just need to wait for HR to finish their investigation.

This staff report is surrounded around the fact that you, without my prior approval, used an administrator function reserved for admin situations to force my demotion to align with a role-play that I did not agree to. This is in fact, a role-play scenario that I would have had to agree to.

You made several comments in response and one was in regards to power-gaming, where as you provided a statement that clearly underlines the fact that you misunderstand the definition of what power-gaming is as you did happen to provide an example that WOULD actually be power-gaming. To role-play out beating my legs and the resulting action being something you decided would be power-gaming. In this example you provided you would simply /me (action), which in your example would be beating my legs, whereas it would be my turn to then use /me to continue with how my character would respond to your action. It's pretty disappointing that someone who is an administrator to misunderstand such a simple rule.

Quote:In-Game Rules:

2.6 Powergaming is not allowed (i.e. do not do "/me snaps the man’s neck, killing him" or similar).

Forcing a demotion on me, being that it was not agreed upon by both parties and that it was done through an administrative feature, is a clear violation of powergaming.

You had no other choice in the saying as you were in handcuffs and under watch by officers. A similar situation that would not require your consent would be if in the same scenario I did:

* Soviethooves beats the president's knees, causing him to fall.

As you are in a state that can't retaliate against this action, you have no choice but to deal with the circumstances.

In my scenario, you had me in handcuffs. You forced my demotion using administrative features. Are you denying that? Are you stating that because I was in handcuffs, you could do away with my character however you please? Could you have killed me too because I had no choice but to deal with the circumstances?

If the feature doesn't exist, don't override it with using an unfair advantage to supplement your groups role-play scenario. Being an officer of the law and demoting a standing President is not even something that would happen IRL and therefore why would it be something you can simply make-up and enable to happen in-game? There was no role-play of a trial, no lawyers, no actual effort. You simply took the position of Sergeant and decided to be gone with me because you, and your group of friends who were also in the police officer positions, felt like removing me. You happened to take charge once Venom was removed and wrongfully used an administrative tool to remove me from my position. Where in the rules is such an action allowed? I see no exceptions for the demotion of a President by a normal player, where is the exception that says that because you are an administrator you can do whatever you please with role-play being an excuse if anyone asks? Where is the accountability in that and to what limit could you go with that?

In response to your first statement, I did demote Venom and both you and the following officers were in the wrong for continuing the effort(s) to arrest me. Your statement saying that the police are judge, juries and executioners seems a bit far fetched for a semi-serious role-play server. I'd expect that response on a typical DarkRP forum but certainly not here.

The entirety of the situation revolves around your response, "Again, as stated prior, I was assisting in the continued arrest of you and the VP by Sourlemon and Venom. This was not an abuse of my powers against you, but a use of my power to further the situation. Something you had little power (You were in handcuffs in custody of an officer)."

I also find it concerning that one of your witnesses, SourLemon, had stated that for a duration of the time you had been observing me from an admin standpoint which means that the group of police officers were likely communicating through TeamSpeak or a third-party software (meta-gaming) to discuss how to remove me IC'ly from an OOC'ly perspective and as stated in the actual rules, information learned OOC'ly cannot be used IC'ly and thus if you were discussing means OOC'ly to use IC'ly that would be a direct violation of meta-gaming (Apologies for the tongue twister). Were you all communicating through TeamSpeak? I'd possibly like a response on that as I believe it is pertinent to the investigation and whether or not you were communicating through the proper TeamSpeak channels for use by government members and not communicating through a locked channel for private and/or clan use according to previous staff remarks on TeamSpeak usage and it being obvious as government channels are there for a reason.

Quote:RE: Rules regarding personal teamspeak channel - George - Monday, December 5th, 2016

This generally wouldn't be allowed for the following reasons:

1. It's still meta-gaming - IC information is only allowed to be shared in-game or via the government radio channels on the Limelight Gaming Teamspeak

I've stated the rule being broken, power-gaming, and the list of administrative misconduct which is noted in the Report Instructions section and which I believe fell under these circumstances and I will respectively leave this up to HR and the appropriate staff members to make a decision on.

We'll be reviewing this over the weekend.

(Jun 2, 2017, 04:52 PM)ZooM Wrote: [ -> ]I also find it concerning that one of your witnesses, SourLemon, had stated that for a duration of the time you had been observing me from an admin standpoint which means that the group of police officers were likely communicating through TeamSpeak or a third-party software (meta-gaming) to discuss how to remove me IC'ly from an OOC'ly perspective and as stated in the actual rules, information learned OOC'ly cannot be used IC'ly and thus if you were discussing means OOC'ly to use IC'ly that would be a direct violation of meta-gaming (Apologies for the tongue twister). Were you all communicating through TeamSpeak? I'd possibly like a response on that as I believe it is pertinent to the investigation and whether or not you were communicating through the proper TeamSpeak channels for use by government members and not communicating through a locked channel for private and/or clan use according to previous staff remarks on TeamSpeak usage and it being obvious as government channels are there for a reason.

I sent @'s and PMs to Soviet asking him about how it would work. I wasn't even on the teamspeak. I was also PMing Venom. We were not using any third party software to communicate, you're just paranoid. The reason the IC situation was being discussed in OOC was because we had no way to remove you from your position.

Also, regardless of what RP trials or any other in character shit we do, there is still no way for the police to remove you from the president slot unless we had a citizen execute you, there is no method, demoting, arresting, etc. that we could use to remove you. In real life, police would not have these issues as they are fully capable of arresting a corrupt politician.

I've already defended myself against your accusations and any further arguments will most likely be ignored by you, probably because you've already decided to believe this will get me demoted.

If needed by HR, I can backup Sourlemon's statement with the PM's and @'s.

Not sure why you are stating that my replies are considered accusations. They're simply facts. My report is based on actions by you and not by SourLemon or any of these supposed witnesses. We're talking about misuse of an administrative feature and things that are not supposed to be done regardless of the situational context.

I don't think you're in a position to be saying that anything further would be ignored by reviewing staff members. It's also quite unprofessional to even suggest that, considering that this report is about you and any discourse by you that has the intention to dissuade me from opening up a conversation about what occurred and speculation about what could have been happening, based on new information brought forth by witnesses, may be seen as an attempt by you to tamper with an investigation by making me believe I shouldn't be completely involved in my own report and making sure to comment/reply to any new information brought forward. To suggest that I already believe you would be demoted is honestly quite childish. This isn't about getting you demoted, it's about doing what's right and making sure you don't make the mistake of using your administrative powers to your role-play advantage in the future unless there is an exception listen in the rules that allows such to occur, though role-play is always about having both sides interact. There's little "roleplay" involved in handcuffing me and forcing my demotion. I think there's little debate about whether or not power-gaming occurred and how current noted means of admin abuse listed in the appropriate section of the forums can be seen as applying to this entire situation by your use of (/demote) to remove me.

(Jun 2, 2017, 09:48 PM)ZooM Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think you're in a position to be saying that anything further would be ignored by reviewing staff members. It's also quite unprofessional to even suggest that, considering that this report is about you and any discourse by you that has the intention to dissuade me from opening up a conversation about what occurred and speculation about what could have been happening, based on new information brought forth by witnesses, may be seen as an attempt by you to tamper with an investigation by making me believe I shouldn't be completely involved in my own report and making sure to comment/reply to any new information brought forward.

Thats not what he said, he said, "I've already defended myself against your accusations and any further arguments will most likely be ignored by you"

You should actually read someones comment before lashing out at them.

As Sourlemon said, I said that YOU would most likely ignore my side along with any knowledge I may try to give to you.

Please review the text closely before replying to avoid confusion and unneeded rudeness.

Will be concluded later today, if there is anything to add please do.

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